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Wigan - Liverpool Blocked

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Halwynd

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The Wigan - Liverpool line via St Helens Central is currently blocked by a Class 56 hauled DCR freight train which has failed at Bryn. Amazingly, it has been stood there since around 5pm yesterday. British Rail would have sorted this out within a couple of hours, but todays railway doesn't seem to have that ability. I'm lost for words really.
 
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RailUK Forums

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Can’t Network Rail commandeer a resource from elsewhere? Otherwise, there has to be a case for recovery of failed trains being taken under control of NR completely - not just the logistics and regulation of the assistance to get there, but actual ownership of thunderbird style standby resources across the network.
 

zwk500

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Can’t Network Rail commandeer a resource from elsewhere? Otherwise, there has to be a case for recovery of failed trains being taken under control of NR completely - not just the logistics and regulation of the assistance to get there, but actual ownership of thunderbird style standby resources across the network.
Yes NR can arrange for resource if necessary. However there has to be resources available that can move the train, NR can't summon one from thin air. Drivers at weekends would be the particular concern.
Also NR would only move the train to the nearest space clear of other traffic, and I think they have to give the FOC a chance to arrange their own rescue.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Can’t Network Rail commandeer a resource from elsewhere? Otherwise, there has to be a case for recovery of failed trains being taken under control of NR completely - not just the logistics and regulation of the assistance to get there, but actual ownership of thunderbird style standby resources across the network.
Agreed and charge the FOC for that service and disruption.
 

Halwynd

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Local gossip is that GBRf have offered a Class 60 off Tuebrook Sidings but, for reasons unspecified, DCR were unable to accept. Meanwhile, some Blackpool/Wigan - Liverpool services are being diverted via Golborne Jn and buses have now been arranged for passengers travelling from stations between Bryn and Prescot.
 

GordonT

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Annoyingly the failure is roughly 20 minutes short of its intended destination at Ravenhead Sidings having negotiated a mammoth 10-hour trip from Middleton Towers.

Edit: Failure rescued and lines open with residual disruption to services.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Also NR would only move the train to the nearest space clear of other traffic, and I think they have to give the FOC a chance to arrange their own rescue.
They do but the time limit for rescuing it is usually a couple of hours, not days.
 

_toommm_

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Apparently it didn’t fail. It was regulated behind a stopping service, and slipped to a stand on the incline and they couldn’t get it to move in the right direction again.
 

zwk500

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Otherwise, there has to be a case for recovery of failed trains being taken under control of NR completely - not just the logistics and regulation of the assistance to get there, but actual ownership of thunderbird style standby resources across the network.
It would not make financial sense for NR to do this as trains need to be used regularly to maintain reliability. Neither are NR allowed to do it - they run the infrastructure, other people run the trains. The current arrangement of NR being able to contract resource from other FOCs to rescue trains is the most efficient way to do it.
Agreed and charge the FOC for that service and disruption.
The FOC will be paying the schedule 8 associated with the delay, and I believe they do also get a bill for the emergency hire of the loco that rescues them.
 

Bertie the bus

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Apparently it didn’t fail. It was regulated behind a stopping service, and slipped to a stand on the incline and they couldn’t get it to move in the right direction again.
In the same way it always runs behind the stopper then. I'm sure the fact it technically wasn't a failure is of great comfort to those wishing to travel on the line between Wigan and Huyton between 6PM yesterday and 5PM today.
 

Halwynd

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Looks as if the 56 and its train was set back down the gradient towards Springs Branch - the 56 is currently pottering about light engine at Ince Moss.
 

Bow Fell

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Massive incompetence from DCR from what has gone on, the driver had been on the duty nearly 14 hours, so had to leave the loco and wagons in situ, the replacement driver found had bust 12 hours.

I think communication from DCR to NR was extremely poor and unfortunately Northern had to deal with the fallout.

The only thing that surprised me was when the DCR driver was asked did they sign somewhere, they actually said they didn’t. So not a case of “eyes down” for once!
 

ExRes

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Massive incompetence from DCR from what has gone on, the driver had been on the duty nearly 14 hours, so had to leave the loco and wagons in situ, the replacement driver found had bust 12 hours.

I think communication from DCR to NR was extremely poor and unfortunately Northern had to deal with the fallout.

The only thing that surprised me was when the DCR driver was asked did they sign somewhere, they actually said they didn’t. So not a case of “eyes down” for once!

Out of interest were you actually part of the communication or is that an assumption?

As for the 'eyes down' comment, it's old and boring, do you seriously think any TOC/FOC allow drivers out without route knowledge these days?
 

8A Rail

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Massive incompetence from DCR from what has gone on, the driver had been on the duty nearly 14 hours, so had to leave the loco and wagons in situ, the replacement driver found had bust 12 hours.

I think communication from DCR to NR was extremely poor and unfortunately Northern had to deal with the fallout.

The only thing that surprised me was when the DCR driver was asked did they sign somewhere, they actually said they didn’t. So not a case of “eyes down” for once!

The driver had no choice, as no matter what he done, he could not move the train forward once he got to Bryn Station at 18.04hrs, believe me he tried not helped by the wet conditions. It was clear that the train was not going anywhere, so no choice but to pin down, shut loco down and finally finish his shift! DCR were apparently offered loco's but no driver available or those that may of been, did not sign the route for L/E movement to get to Bryn. I believe a Class 60 was available at Chaddesden but no driver.

The train itself 6M89 arrived at Ince Moss Junction on time and as usual practice, it was released onto the mainline once the local stopper had passed (2C24). However, once released from Ince Moss, 6M89 was getting checked by a couple of signals, consequently this added to the issue. Also, the loco used most of the sand from its boxes while attempting to get away from Bryn. The train behind 6M89, being 2C25 to Liverpool Lime St, had to reverse back to Wigan NW and subsequently (temporary) cancelled, as simply the driver did not sign the alternative route being WCML to L&M line. Trains to Wigan from Liverpool LS operated as normal.

As it happens, I travelled by train from Prescot (were my car was parked) to Bryn to record 6M89, so I know all about the consequences of the failure as initially realised I had no train to get back! Anyway some quick thinking and good fortune, I manage to get back to Prescot via Wigan NW and Huyton by train on 1F05 ex Blackpool as the driver had signed the route via WCML and L&M line. Other passengers not so fortunate as it became apparent not all Northern drivers are signed off for the alternative route, hence being fortunate. Other thing I would say that the Avanti Staff at Wigan NW had their work cut out but manage the situation very well and done their best to make sure all passengers were aware and find alternative ways to get their destinations.

This morning I headed to Haydock (for Toy and Train Fair) and decided to go to Bryn for 6M89. A DCR driver and shunter were already there and attempting to make the best of the unfortunate situation and hoping some solutions were on offer. Sadly it seems nothing forth coming so with a dry rail, they decided to have a go after procession of the line was given, as shunter needed unpin the train. Eventually this was carried out and another attempt made to restart the train. It became clear it was not going to happen. In the meantime, either side of this operation, Northern were working single line operation for trains to Liverpool and Wigan with delays as such. Again other operation, loco and driver options were not forthcoming, so plan 'Z' was implemented. With necessary authorisation and staff, it was decided to reverse train to Ince Moss to clear the line, then allow the train to be split into two and work forward to Ravenhead as two separate trains. As we now realise that what eventually happened.

I attached no blame to anyone but the one thing this incident has highlighted, how fragmented this railway has become (due to privatisation in my opinion) and it is an operational nightmare to get any thing done in an emergency (like to rescue a failed train). I am sure other people will have different opinions but this thread is not for that discussion as I am sure the moderators will agree. Sorry.
 

CE142

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Almost 24 hours to get a train that had failed moved, I would call that a f*****g shambles. Under BR a Driver and a Loco would have come light engine off Springs Branch, buffered up to the rear of 6M89 and shoved him over Bryn Bank, All done and sorted in about an hour.
 

guard1

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Send a competent person in a taxi to act as ground person (with radio) and propel down the two miles to Ince moss junction in less than 30 minutes to clear the line. Driver wouldn't even have to take power.
 

racyrich

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The loco couldn't get the train moving on dry rails the next day? Isn't it expected to be able to do this? Isn't the train weight governed around the ability of the loco to do this on the route's limiting gradient?
 

8A Rail

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Send a competent person in a taxi to act as ground person (with radio) and propel down the two miles to Ince moss junction in less than 30 minutes to clear the line. Driver wouldn't even have to take power.
In this day and age, it may sound simple as that but in reality it ain't. Mmmm 18.30hrs on a Saturday evening (in the dark), if it was that simple I'm sure it would have been carried out. Remember by the time the train was due at Ravenhead and shunted the train in, the driver would be on maximum hours. As I've said I attached no blame but there are a number of questions need to ask of the this fragmented railway sadly.
The loco couldn't get the train moving on dry rails the next day? Isn't it expected to be able to do this? Isn't the train weight governed around the ability of the loco to do this on the route's limiting gradient?
Yes in theory but the train was stuck on a right hand curve, along with being on a gradient and no sand left in the boxes. I am not prepared to speculate on other possible issues there may of been as I could be wrong.

(A Class 56 on this route is limited to 15 loaded JNA's which it was on, a Class 60 is limited to 20 loaded JNA's).
 
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Meerkat

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As I've said I attached no blame but there are a number of questions need to ask of the this fragmented railway sadly.
What are those questions? It sounded like the same things were done as BR would have done. The only difference being that there is a lot less spare of anything nowadays.
 

8A Rail

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What are those questions? It sounded like the same things were done as BR would have done. The only difference being that there is a lot less spare of anything nowadays.

As I've said, I am not prepared to ask the questions here as could be unwarranted, be wrong or just becomes pure speculation. You are right about the latter though, a lot less for sure!
 

Bertie the bus

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What are those questions? It sounded like the same things were done as BR would have done. The only difference being that there is a lot less spare of anything nowadays.
BR wouldn't have left a stalled freight train blocking a passenger line for nearly 24 hours.

There should be some serious questions asked about this incident, and not about the supposedly fragmented railway either, and some equally serious repercussions but there won't be because it is the railway and there was no risk of injury or death.
 

43066

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There should be some serious questions asked about this incident, and not about the supposedly fragmented railway either, and some equally serious repercussions but there won't be because it is the railway and there was no risk of injury or death.

Can I ask qualifies you to say that? Are you privy to how this incident was dealt with?How do you know questions haven’t been asked?

Were you personally inconvenienced by this incident, or are you just complaining for the sake of it (again), with no actual knowledge?
 
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