Will East West rail provide any benefit to Wales.

[FMerrymon]

Maybe the thread should have been rephrased, “Will east west rail
Benefit anywhere else other than the south east?”

We have to look at the main reason this is being built. We have the benefit of two of the best and most famous universities in the world that attract some of the brightest and the best from around the world. Many technology companies have research centres in Cambridge (Microsoft, Amazon, Google for example) but the problem is these are small cities and require housing and lab space. By connecting up the two cities and providing housing and land for labs with good links into them, we have the opportunity to grow their influence further, grows the economy and that benefits the whole United Kingdom.

 

[Magdalia]

We have the benefit of two of the best and most famous universities in the world that attract some of the brightest and the best from around the world.

This is absolutely right. East West Rail is not a London thing, it is not a South East thing, it is a two of the best and most famous Universities in the world thing.

I can't speak for the other place, but I am eye witness to what is happening in Cambridge, and it is phenomenal. I have been following the UK economy for half a century and only once before have I seen anything like what is happening in Cambridge now. That was the boom in the City of London and Docklands that followed financial deregulation in the 1980s. Anyone who hadn't arrived in Cambridge by train for 15 years or more would not recognise what they would see if they arrived now.

By connecting up the two cities and providing housing and land for labs with good links into them, we have the opportunity to grow their influence further, grows the economy and that benefits the whole United Kingdom.

This is absolutely right too. Although the growth we have already seen is phenomenal, Cambridge is constrained by lack of water, a massive housing shortage and overloaded transport infrastructure. East West Rail is a key part of the solution that will help Cambridge to deliver its future economic growth potential. Economic growth is a National project so East West Rail is a National project too, and it will benefit the whole of the UK.

 

[TPO]

I think it's a mistake to reach for a "my need is greater than your need" argument when it comes to transport. The fact is that public transport in pretty much all areas outside Greater London is well below standard, whether it's poor services in rural areas, the lack of east-west rail routes or completely inadequate public transport in major cities. Even when it comes to south-east England (aka 'the London hinterland'), if you're looking for public transport which doesn't originate or terminate in London, basically you can forget it - it's all spokes and no wheels.

Not sure what you mean about EVs. The vast majority of charging happens at home, installing a charger is a small fraction of the cost of a second hand car and will pay for itself in no time. The biggest charging problem will not be in rural areas, but in urban areas where a higher percentage of houses don't have private parking.

At the risk of going off topic......

These communities are linear terraces with parking on the road, few if any driveways. Often the house level elevated above the road. Typical Welsh Valleys. So charging at home mainly a non starter for most in these places.

TPO

 

[camflyer]

This is absolutely right. East West Rail is not a London thing, it is not a South East thing, it is a two of the best and most famous Universities in the world thing.

I can't speak for the other place, but I am eye witness to what is happening in Cambridge, and it is phenomenal. I have been following the UK economy for half a century and only once before have I seen anything like what is happening in Cambridge now. That was the boom in the City of London and Docklands that followed financial deregulation in the 1980s. Anyone who hadn't arrived in Cambridge by train for 15 years or more would not recognise what they would see if they arrived now.


This is absolutely right too. Although the growth we have already seen is phenomenal, Cambridge is constrained by lack of water, a massive housing shortage and overloaded transport infrastructure. East West Rail is a key part of the solution that will help Cambridge to deliver its future economic growth potential. Economic growth is a National project so East West Rail is a National project too, and it will benefit the whole of the UK.

The first time I visited Cambridge was in 1992 and it was a rather sleepy place then. I moved to the area in 1999 and since then the place has changed beyond all recognition - except that the public transport system hasn't kept up. Cambridge North has been a big success and I'm sure Cambridge South will be the same but EWR will be game changing.

However, there was a missed opportunity to make EWR something even bigger and build a proper cross country spine connecting Ipswich/Norwich through Cambridge, Bedford, MK and Oxford onwards to the West County and South Wales but I will put my crayons away.

 

[Brubulus]

However, there was a missed opportunity to make EWR something even bigger and build a proper cross country spine connecting Ipswich/Norwich through Cambridge, Bedford, MK and Oxford onwards to the West County and South Wales but I will put my crayons away.

There's nothing realistically stopping this from taking place once the line is built, just that the current DfT doesn't like the idea due to the fact cross country routes ossify timetables and capacity while causing the importation of delays across regions. However I believe at least 1tph beyond each end is likely to happen as the line integrates itself to become a core part of the UK rail network.

 

[fishwomp]

Oxford-Bletchley probably none. Bletchley-Cambridge possibly some if wanting to go to Cambridge. But that does require an MKC-Cambridge service to avoid excessive changes, and that isn't planned...

Birmingham - Cambridge is 2h45 or thereabouts for the direct service

Current timetable gets you 1h13 from Brum to Bletchley with one change. (21 mins past hour from Brum).
Bletchley to Cambridge - 10 years is 60 minutes. If you have a 15 min connection at Bletchley. that's 1h15 - total journey time 2h30.

If Brum to Cambridge is faster via EWR - then that's Aberystywyth, Bangor (via Crewe or Shrewsbury) universities better connected to Cambridge, and others. So yeah, a small benefit to a long journey.

 

[FMerrymon]

There's nothing realistically stopping this from taking place once the line is built, just that the current DfT doesn't like the idea due to the fact cross country routes ossify timetables and capacity while causing the importation of delays across regions. However I believe at least 1tph beyond each end is likely to happen as the line integrates itself to become a core part of the UK rail network.

Bedford-Cambridge is referred to as the central section of EWR. The Eastern section is to Norwich and Ipswich, just central has to come first. Going to be some time away though. Network rail did release a study on using the line as a long distance main line.

 

[Magdalia]

There's nothing realistically stopping this from taking place once the line is built, just that the current DfT doesn't like the idea due to the fact cross country routes ossify timetables and capacity while causing the importation of delays across regions. However I believe at least 1tph beyond each end is likely to happen as the line integrates itself to become a core part of the UK rail network.

I have not seen this before. I'm encouraged because I think that the view attributed to DfT here is absolutely right. Is there a source? The existing railway places exaggerated importance on preserving some long distance flows, while ignoring others of similar size, and at the expense of a worse service for much bigger shorter distance flows that are far more important for local economies. At the Cambridge end we already see that with the existing long distance routes making it much more difficult to make best use of scarce capacity, especially around Ely.

Birmingham - Cambridge is 2h45 or thereabouts for the direct service

Current timetable gets you 1h13 from Brum to Bletchley with one change. (21 mins past hour from Brum).
Bletchley to Cambridge - 10 years is 60 minutes. If you have a 15 min connection at Bletchley. that's 1h15 - total journey time 2h30.

If Brum to Cambridge is faster via EWR - then that's Aberystywyth, Bangor (via Crewe or Shrewsbury) universities better connected to Cambridge, and others. So yeah, a small benefit to a long journey.

I agree on this. Cambridge-Birmingham via a change at Bletchley is 15-20 miles shorter than the very indirect route via Leicester. With both legs 2tph the change penalty is not big.

The time advantage for via Bletchley would improve further if EWR could run into Milton Keynes from the Cambridge direction, and/or the London-Birmingham semi-fasts ran via Weedon instead of Northampton. The latter might happen after HS2.

I don't see much prospect of through running off of EWR at the Cambridge end. From/to Norwich the key through running at Cambridge/Ely will continue to be Stansted Airport (currently 42k journeys) and Peterborough (currently 45k journeys). I'd expect Norwich-EWR to be behind those in passenger numbers. I know much less about the other end, but my hunch would be that running EWR trains through to Didcot or Swindon would be the way to give good connectivity to Bristol and South Wales with only one change from Cambridge, and vice versa. Even then I'm not sure that is going to be competitive with going via London.

 

[FMerrymon]

I have not seen this before. I'm encouraged because I think that the view attributed to DfT here is absolutely right. Is there a source? The existing railway places exaggerated importance on preserving some long distance flows, while ignoring others of similar size, and at the expense of a worse service for much bigger shorter distance flows that are far more important for local economies. At the Cambridge end we already see that with the existing long distance routes making it much more difficult to make best use of scarce capacity, especially around Ely.


I agree on this. Cambridge-Birmingham via a change at Bletchley is 15-20 miles shorter than the very indirect route via Leicester. With both legs 2tph the change penalty is not big.

The time advantage for via Bletchley would improve further if EWR could run into Milton Keynes from the Cambridge direction, and/or the London-Birmingham semi-fasts ran via Weedon instead of Northampton. The latter might happen after HS2.

I don't see much prospect of through running off of EWR at the Cambridge end. From/to Norwich the key through running at Cambridge/Ely will continue to be Stansted Airport (currently 42k journeys) and Peterborough (currently 45k journeys). I'd expect Norwich-EWR to be behind those in passenger numbers. I know much less about the other end, but my hunch would be that running EWR trains through to Didcot or Swindon would be the way to give good connectivity to Bristol and South Wales with only one change from Cambridge, and vice versa. Even then I'm not sure that is going to be competitive with going via London.

The strategic statement from Network Rail on EWR is worth a read on the additional connections https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-...nt-East-West-Main-Line-Partnership-080622.pdf

In the context of this thread, also mentions Cardiff, although that is not the reason behind its barnett classification.

 

[Magdalia]

The strategic statement from Network Rail on EWR is worth a read on the additional connections https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-...nt-East-West-Main-Line-Partnership-080622.pdf

In the context of this thread, also mentions Cardiff, although that is not the reason behind its barnett classification.

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen this document before.

The first thing to note is that it is 3 years old. Since then the political and economic context of East West Rail has changed, and East West Rail have published the 2023 route update and completed the 2024/25 non-statutory consultation.

The main East West Rail consultation document from November 2024 say this in section 4.1:

The strategic objectives for East West Rail are to: • Improve east-west public transport connectivity by providing rail links between key urban areas across the Oxford to Cambridge region. • Stimulate economic growth, housing and employment through the provision of new, reliable and attractive inter-urban passenger train services in the Oxford to Cambridge region. • Contribute to improved journey times and inter-regional passenger connectivity by connecting with north-south routes and routes beyond Oxford and Cambridge. • Provide a sustainable and value for money public transport solution to support economic growth in the area. • Meet initial forecast passenger demand and consider and plan for future passenger demand, making provision where it is affordable. • Maintain current capacity for rail freight and make appropriate provision for anticipated future growth.

Inter-regional connectivity is on the list, but it is not as important as improving connectivity across the Oxford-Cambridge corridor, and stimulating economic growth, housing and employment in the Oxford-Cambridge corridor. This can be seen in what the Chancellor said about East West Rail in the January 2025 speech, made just after the consultation closed:

First, we are funding the transport links needed to make the Oxford Cambridge growth corridor a success…

… including East-West Rail, with new services between Oxford and Milton Keynes starting this year…

… and road upgrades to reduce journey times between Milton Keynes and Cambridge.

East West Rail will also support vibrant new and expanded communities along the route.

We have already received proposals for New Towns along the new railway…

… with 18 submissions for sizeable new developments.

At Tempsford – the nexus of the East Coast Mainline, the A1 and East West Rail…

…we will move quicker to deliver a mainline station, meaning journey times to London of under an hour…

… and to Cambridge in under 30 minutes when East West Rail is operational.

The East West Rail November 2024 consultation documents give some indication of where extending trains beyond Cambridge is in the current priorities. Compare table 6 on page 60 of the Network Rail 2022 document with what is proposed for Cambridge in chapter 13 of the East West Rail 2024 consultation technical report. In particular, Network Rail 2022 requires grade separation at Shepreth Branch Junction for through services beyond Cambridge, but that was not in the East West Rail 2024 consultation proposal, which is consistent with the 4tph terminating at Cambridge option in the Network Rail 2022 document.

Chapter 4 of the Network Rail document is still instructive about longer distance connectivity. The big table comparing generalised journey times on pages 33-34 shows that East West Rail does what it most needs to do on connectivity, improving the links between Cambridge and Oxford, and for Milton Keynes and Bedford in between.

The rest of the table needs to be seen in the context of the population and Gross Value Added data in figures 4 and 5 of chapter 3, on page 26. Of all the "off EWR" places shown, Bristol and Cardiff have the biggest population and Gross Value Added, and Swindon is amongst the highest for Gross Value Added. Furthermore, Bristol and Cardiff both have Russell Group universities.

This does reinforce my view that the big win on extending trains beyond Cambridge-Oxford is to go to Swindon. It would be interesting to see what this would do for the generalised journey times for Swindon, Bristol and Cardiff.

That's all with the caveat that I think there is a flaw in the generalised journey times methodology, but that's definitely beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

[Brubulus]

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen this document before.

The first thing to note is that it is 3 years old. Since then the political and economic context of East West Rail has changed, and East West Rail have published the 2023 route update and completed the 2024/25 non-statutory consultation.

The main East West Rail consultation document from November 2024 say this in section 4.1:



Inter-regional connectivity is on the list, but it is not as important as improving connectivity across the Oxford-Cambridge corridor, and stimulating economic growth, housing and employment in the Oxford-Cambridge corridor. This can be seen in what the Chancellor said about East West Rail in the January 2025 speech, made just after the consultation closed:



The East West Rail November 2024 consultation documents give some indication of where extending trains beyond Cambridge is in the current priorities. Compare table 6 on page 60 of the Network Rail 2022 document with what is proposed for Cambridge in chapter 13 of the East West Rail 2024 consultation technical report. In particular, Network Rail 2022 requires grade separation at Shepreth Branch Junction for through services beyond Cambridge, but that was not in the East West Rail 2024 consultation proposal, which is consistent with the 4tph terminating at Cambridge option in the Network Rail 2022 document.

Chapter 4 of the Network Rail document is still instructive about longer distance connectivity. The big table comparing generalised journey times on pages 33-34 shows that East West Rail does what it most needs to do on connectivity, improving the links between Cambridge and Oxford, and for Milton Keynes and Bedford in between.

The rest of the table needs to be seen in the context of the population and Gross Value Added data in figures 4 and 5 of chapter 3, on page 26. Of all the "off EWR" places shown, Bristol and Cardiff have the biggest population and Gross Value Added, and Swindon is amongst the highest for Gross Value Added. Furthermore, Bristol and Cardiff both have Russell Group universities.

This does reinforce my view that the big win on extending trains beyond Cambridge-Oxford is to go to Swindon. It would be interesting to see what this would do for the generalised journey times for Swindon, Bristol and Cardiff.

That's all with the caveat that I think there is a flaw in the generalised journey times methodology, but that's definitely beyond the scope of this discussion.

Given the ambition for Cambridge-Norwich to become 2tph, the need to retain a link from Stansted to Peterborough and the capacity limitations of Stansted, it seems reasonable for the second Norwich train to run on to EWR, then there's also a desire for a train from Oxford to Bristol/Cardiff. Therefore a Norwich to Bristol or Cardiff service using EWR is likely a good idea. This then enables far more easy cross country journeys avoiding London.

 

[Magdalia]

Given the ambition for Cambridge-Norwich to become 2tph, the need to retain a link from Stansted to Peterborough and the capacity limitations of Stansted, it seems reasonable for the second Norwich train to run on to EWR, then there's also a desire for a train from Oxford to Bristol/Cardiff. Therefore a Norwich to Bristol or Cardiff service using EWR is likely a good idea. This then enables far more easy cross country journeys avoiding London.

Cambridge-Norwich 2tph is only an ambition. The current infrastructure can't deliver it and there is no funding for the improvements that would be needed. I don't see any evidence that Norwich-Ely needs more than 2tph, and the 2 most important flows will continue to be Peterborough and Cambridge+Stansted. As Cambridge-Kings Lynn has demonstrated, what Cambridge-Norwich needs is 1tph off peak with longer trains, and a few peak time extras (using resources already available because there is no through running to Stansted in the peaks), not 2tph all day.

Norwich-Bristol or Cardiff is definitely not a good idea, it is a classic example of the fallacy of stringing various shorter distance services together to make through long distance journeys for a handful of people, while destroying punctuality and reliability for the many more people making shorter journeys. The number of people who would benefit from being able to go Norwich-Bristol or Cardiff not via London is tiny, but the number of people disadvantaged is huge. Just imagine waiting for your train from Cambridge to Norwich and being told that it has been cancelled because of an incident in Swindon.

 

[Krokodil]

Just imagine waiting for your train from Cambridge to Norwich and being told that it has been cancelled because of an incident in Swindon.

That's what spare cover is for (both units and crews). You'd reinstate the service from Oxford with a spare unit and either the original crew (if there was a booked relief, which seems likely anyway) or a spare one.

 

[Magdalia]

That's what spare cover is for (both units and crews). You'd reinstate the service from Oxford with a spare unit and either the original crew (if there was a booked relief, which seems likely anyway) or a spare one.

There is little or no spare cover of this kind, and, if there is, it is often not where it is needed. Long distance services fall apart on an almost daily basis. Greater Anglia's record speaks for itself: its longest journeys are 115 miles Liverpool Street-Norwich.

 

[Krokodil]

There is little or no spare cover of this kind, and, if there is, it is often not where it is needed. Long distance services fall apart on an almost daily basis. Greater Anglia's record speaks for itself: its longest journeys are 115 miles Liverpool Street-Norwich.

Odd then that I see services (just shy of 300 mile journeys) restarted at Chester, Shrewsbury or Cardiff when the need arises. Where there's a will etc.

 

[Magdalia]

Odd then that I see services (just shy of 300 mile journeys) restarted at Chester, Shrewsbury or Cardiff when the need arises. Where there's a will etc.

Yes that happens sometimes, but there are lots of times when it doesn't. It requires both a unit and a crew, and it only takes one to be unavailable for the train to be cancelled.

 

[quantinghome]

At the risk of going off topic......

These communities are linear terraces with parking on the road, few if any driveways. Often the house level elevated above the road. Typical Welsh Valleys. So charging at home mainly a non starter for most in these places.

TPO

Fair enough. Same problem as many inner city areas then.

 

[zwk500]

Fair enough. Same problem as many inner city areas then.

Given how much housing in the UK doesn't have allocated parking, and that often parking demand far outstrips supply in residential areas, some solution to that issue is going to have to be found sooner or later.

 

[TPO]

Given how much housing in the UK doesn't have allocated parking, and that often parking demand far outstrips supply in residential areas, some solution to that issue is going to have to be found sooner or later.

Yes, like reopening the nearby mothballed freight line to passengers.....

TPO

 

[Topological]

We have to look at the main reason this is being built. We have the benefit of two of the best and most famous universities in the world that attract some of the brightest and the best from around the world. Many technology companies have research centres in Cambridge (Microsoft, Amazon, Google for example) but the problem is these are small cities and require housing and lab space. By connecting up the two cities and providing housing and land for labs with good links into them, we have the opportunity to grow their influence further, grows the economy and that benefits the whole United Kingdom.

At the risk of a slight derailing, Cambridge is involved in a large collaboration with the University of Manchester. If it was the case that such networks were covered by rail services then a triangle forms.

Link: Cambridge University Collaboration with Manchester

Visit from Manchester Mayor signals a new era of collaboration between two UK innovation hubs with a focus on boosting regional economies and fostering inclusive growth.

This partnership is breaking new ground, linking the North of England with the Golden triangle to drive regional and national economic growth.
Andy Burnham, Mayor of Greater Manchester

On 5 November 2024, Greater Manchester’s Mayor Andy Burnham visited Cambridge to celebrate and further cement a groundbreaking partnership between the two cities' innovation ecosystems. The collaboration, which was officially launched in 2023, is aimed at leveraging the combined strengths of Manchester and Cambridge to fuel the growth of start-ups, attract investment, and foster inclusive economic development across the UK.
The visit marked an important step forward in this trailblazing collaboration, which is the first of its kind in the UK. Leading academic, business and civil figures from both cities were in attendance including: Dr Nik Johnson, Mayor of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough; Professor Deborah Prentice, Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge; Professor Duncan Ivison, Vice-Chancellor of the University of Manchester; Professor Lou Cordwell, Professor of Innovation, University of Manchester; Dr Diarmuid O’Brien, Pro-Vice-Chancellor for Innovation, University of Cambridge and Dr Kathryn Chapman, Executive Director, Innovate Cambridge.
The delegation also included representatives from the business community, including AstraZeneca, which is deepening its support for entrepreneurial ventures through mentorship and collaboration.

I do believe that the connection of Oxford and Cambridge is an important UK wide project. However, we need to connect all of our innovation hubs to get the full benefit (Including Bristol and Cardiff, which of course EWR can by extension)

 

[Magdalia]

At the risk of a slight derailing, Cambridge is involved in a large collaboration with the University of Manchester. If it was the case that such networks were covered by rail services then a triangle forms.

Link: Cambridge University Collaboration with Manchester



I do believe that the connection of Oxford and Cambridge is an important UK wide project. However, we need to connect all of our innovation hubs to get the full benefit (Including Bristol and Cardiff, which of course EWR can by extension)

The 24 universities in the Russell Group are a good proxy for identifying the most significant UK Universities likely to be linking for research and innovation collaboration. 5 of these are in London (Imperial, Kings, LSE, Queen Mary and UCL). Other than Cambridge and Oxford, the remainder are listed below, in an approximate geographic order:

Southampton
Exeter
Bristol
Cardiff

Birmingham
Warwick
Nottingham

Liverpool
Manchester
Sheffield
Leeds
York

Durham
Newcastle
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Belfast

Cardiff is the only Russell Group member in Wales.

 

[Topological]

The 24 universities in the Russell Group are a good proxy for identifying the most significant UK Universities likely to be linking for research and innovation collaboration. 5 of these are in London (Imperial, Kings, LSE, Queen Mary and UCL). Other than Cambridge and Oxford, the remainder are listed below, in an approximate geographic order:

Southampton
Exeter
Bristol
Cardiff

Birmingham
Warwick
Nottingham

Liverpool
Manchester
Sheffield
Leeds
York

Durham
Newcastle
Edinburgh
Glasgow
Belfast

Cardiff is the only Russell Group member in Wales.

This list emphasises two potential roles for EWR - connections onto the ECML/MML/WCML for the Midlands and Northern groups and providing better access to the South West group. Essentially EWR is plugging a gap in the connectivity of Oxford and Cambridge to the rest. Most of the other pairs are already operating.

(Worth noting that a lot of Warwick is in fact Coventry)

From the Welsh perspective, having Cardiff better integrated would bring benefits but it needs EWR to stretch to at least Didcot (I would have hourly to Bristol, but that is off topic).

 

[sh24]

As others have said, linking together the tech/bio-sciences/pharma innovation arc between Oxford and Cambridge is of national benefit as it creates another centre of wealth generation outside of London. I went to Cambridge recently for the first time in a decade and the growth is astonishing. More investment = more tax revenue = benefits for all of the UK.

 

[Brubulus]

Cambridge-Norwich 2tph is only an ambition. The current infrastructure can't deliver it and there is no funding for the improvements that would be needed. I don't see any evidence that Norwich-Ely needs more than 2tph, and the 2 most important flows will continue to be Peterborough and Cambridge+Stansted. As Cambridge-Kings Lynn has demonstrated, what Cambridge-Norwich needs is 1tph off peak with longer trains, and a few peak time extras (using resources already available because there is no through running to Stansted in the peaks), not 2tph all day.

Norwich-Bristol or Cardiff is definitely not a good idea, it is a classic example of the fallacy of stringing various shorter distance services together to make through long distance journeys for a handful of people, while destroying punctuality and reliability for the many more people making shorter journeys. The number of people who would benefit from being able to go Norwich-Bristol or Cardiff not via London is tiny, but the number of people disadvantaged is huge. Just imagine waiting for your train from Cambridge to Norwich and being told that it has been cancelled because of an incident in Swindon.

Long distance services enable journeys, including those from Wales to parts of
the country which aren't London or right on the border.

As others have said, linking together the tech/bio-sciences/pharma innovation arc between Oxford and Cambridge is of national benefit as it creates another centre of wealth generation outside of London. I went to Cambridge recently for the first time in a decade and the growth is astonishing. More investment = more tax revenue = benefits for all of the UK.

The economic growth enabled by EWR will most definetly benefit Wales, in that it will help enable the fiscal transfers which Wales has come to rely on.

 

[Magdalia]

Long distance services enable journeys, including those from Wales to parts of
the country which aren't London or right on the border.

The Cardiff-Cambridge flow in 2023/24 was 3412, less than 10 people per day, and they have a very viable alternative of going via London.

The economic growth enabled by EWR will most definetly benefit Wales, in that it will help enable the fiscal transfers which Wales has come to rely on.

Indeed. Barnett consequentials don't come out of thin air they are paid for by (mainly English) taxpayers.

 

[BlueLeanie]

It's not just Oxford & Cambridge though. Milton Keynes is a major employment area.

NRE shows me that the current route from Cardiff to MK would take me via London, and take around 3 hours. The quickest current journey from Cardiff to Oxford is 1h36m with a 5 min change at Didcot. Even with a poor connection at Oxford, it's still going to be 20 mins quicker avoiding London, and hopefully a "via Winslow" will be considerably cheaper.

 

[Mikey C]

As others have said, linking together the tech/bio-sciences/pharma innovation arc between Oxford and Cambridge is of national benefit as it creates another centre of wealth generation outside of London. I went to Cambridge recently for the first time in a decade and the growth is astonishing. More investment = more tax revenue = benefits for all of the UK.

The scope for housing along the route may be just as important, as both Oxford and Cambridge are expensive places to live and very crowded. People may start commuting in from towns and new towns along the EWR route.

 

[Class 170101]

The scope for housing along the route may be just as important, as both Oxford and Cambridge are expensive places to live and very crowded. People may start commuting in from towns and new towns along the EWR route.

I believe that is the idea of EWR, to build houses outside of Oxford and Cambridge (so called Oxford to Cambridge arc) and for people to commute in.

 

[Mgameing123]

Following UK government disclosure that East West Rail project has been declared an English/Welsh project.

'HS2 all over again': Oxford - Cambridge rail project classed as 'England and Wales'

Emily Price A multi-billion pound rail project between Oxford and Cambridge will be classed as an England and Wales scheme, the UK Government has confirmed. This means that despite East West Rail being entirely in England, Wales will not receive Barnett consequentials from the project. The...

nation.cymru

This means Wales won't get £360 million in consequential funding to spend on transport projects in Wales according to LibDems but Scotland and Northern Ireland will.

What benefits do we think East West Rail can offer to Wales?

The one train a day they will operate from Severn Tunnel Junction to Bletchley XD

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2025 ==

Given Bristol now has direct services to Oxford, could Cardiff or even Swansea get a direct train to Oxford too? Maybe a South or even North Wales train to Cambridge/ East Anglia could become a thing. We need better regional connectivity across all of Britain.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jun 2025 ==


I thought Wales already had devolution for transport? Who funds the Network North Wales, Cardiff Metro and various other rail improvements going on in Wales these days? Are buses devolved in Wales? Given again the keenness to franchise and integrate all public transport via Transport for Wales, I'm surprised if it isn't devolved.

It's not impossible. There is that possibility for that one train a day to move around rolling stock.

 

[styles]

I think it's a mistake to reach for a "my need is greater than your need" argument when it comes to transport. The fact is that public transport in pretty much all areas outside Greater London is well below standard, whether it's poor services in rural areas, the lack of east-west rail routes or completely inadequate public transport in major cities. Even when it comes to south-east England (aka 'the London hinterland'), if you're looking for public transport which doesn't originate or terminate in London, basically you can forget it - it's all spokes and no wheels.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Certainly smaller towns and settlements struggle form public transport, not just from rail but also decreasing bus services.

But most cities I've stayed in have had decent public transport, including buses which run through the night. Nottingham, Derby, Manchester, Edinburgh all cities I've lived in or near and I'd say have great public transport for example.

I live about half an hour from Edinburgh now and I've got buses to the city centre and the airport 24 hours a day including Sundays and bank holidays. The buses are clean, drivers are friendly and they're generally on time. The trains from the station I live a few minutes walk from tun until gone midnight come back from the city centre also. Cost wise it's like a couple of quid on a bus flat fare. The night buses more expensive admittedly but still not much.

Sure I had more options when I lived in Shepherd's Bush, but I can't remember last living in a city or large town and feeling hindered.

I only really wish we had greater subsidies for the fares.

Rural though, absolutely. The village my mum lives in in Flintshire has 3 buses a day in each direction, none of which would get you to work for 9am, and no services on Sundays at all. My partner's brother in Angus would have to walk for just under an hour to get to a bus stop. Admittedly it's like a mile between their house/the neighbour's and any other house so a bit of an extreme. But there is a paid tourist attraction maybe 15 minutes walk away which you'd think they could connect.