matacaster
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If Scots get vote and go for independence, will hs2 ever get north of Preston?
If Scots get vote and go for independence, will hs2 ever get north of Preston?
If Scots get vote and go for independence, will hs2 ever get north of Preston?
You really need to get over this, it will get to Crewe at least.
You really need to get over this, it will get to Crewe at least.
Nobody can guarantee it going further than Birmingham. Legislation does not yet exist for it to do so.
Technically, no one can guarantee that a particular future event will actually happen. However, we can judge from evidence presented to us whether something has a high probability of occurring or not. Compared to Phase 1, Phases 2a and 2b:
- have a higher BCR
- are cheaper mile for mile
- have much greater support from local authorities
- have smaller, less organised and more factional opposition groups
- are politically important for the current government to be seen to invest more in the North.
On this basis I would conclude that Phase 2 has a high probability of being built. Can I ask what basis you have for your scepticism?
Predominantly financial. Also knowing politics as I do. Once London has its new railway, would politicians really want to do anything more?
You mention things like higher BCR etc. From a politician's perspective, all that is meaningless. They want to be seen to support big ticket items for London, not small add ons for the regions.
Predominantly financial. Also knowing politics as I do. Once London has its new railway, would politicians really want to do anything more?
You mention things like higher BCR etc. From a politician's perspective, all that is meaningless. They want to be seen to support big ticket items for London, not small add ons for the regions.
Doubt it ever will either way, the case is very weak.
Actually, I have my doubts about it getting any farther north than Birmingham. Just a high speed commuter route between there and London.
Building north of Preston (assuming HS2 makes it that far) would probably be the most challenging part of the route to build due to it going through mountainous Cumbria and southern Scotland, plus the fact they're undensely populated and hardly struggling for capacity doesn't justify a new line at all.
Could the line speeds be upgraded, namely by having digital signalling to get it to 140mph speeds? There was talk of upgrading the Scottish portion to 135mph a while back.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/virgin-propose-non-stop-rail-link-to-london-1-2947160
Whether Crossrail 2 or HS3 is preferred is a more interesting question
Could the line speeds be upgraded, namely by having digital signalling to get it to 140mph speeds? There was talk of upgrading the Scottish portion to 135mph a while back.
An even more interesting question is - what exactly is HS3?
HS3 was a name given to a TransPennine upgrade programme, not a third high speed line.
Not at all easily. Much of it is already at maximum speed for the curvature of the line allowing for tilt. Essentially, to raise speeds beyond 125mph you are looking at building new bits of railway.
But even if it could be done, the difference between 125 and 140 is 3 seconds a mile, therefore you need 100 miles at 140 vice 125 to save just 5 minutes. Alternatively, you can save the same time by not stopping at Wigan. (Apologies to Ianno87)
The DfT have actually produced an options report which set out how a sub-3hr journey time to Scotland could be achieved. The most important part of its findings is that traditional route upgrades would be terrible value for money in terms of minutes saved. After the low-hanging fruit of speeding up non-stop times through stations and junctions, there's precious little that can realistically be done without totally rebuilding the line. Even then, totally rebuilding it can only reduce journey times by a relatively small amount. What it found is that it would more useful to build bypass sections and then rejoin a minimally-upgraded WCML for the remaining parts. The only clear upgrade that it said would be useful is four-tracking between Wigan and Preston plus grade-separation of Euxton Junction.
Nobody can guarantee it going further than Birmingham. Legislation does not yet exist for it to do so.
Do you really want them to squander public money on something that will not generate any kind of societal return, simply to tick boxes about 'investing in the north'?
Why would people suddenly stop travelling to/from Scotland? They wouldn't rebuild Hadrian's wall....
Why would people suddenly stop travelling to/from Scotland? They wouldn't rebuild Hadrian's wall....
HS3 was a name given to a TransPennine upgrade programme, not a third high speed line.