Will Tyne and Wear metro frequency be increasing once new units are in service?

[ModernRailways]

Bit concerning to hear about the safety side of things your on about especially as Metro safety record has always been advertised as really good but I have noticed more posts on the twitter page of operational incidents occuring but that could be anything I'm guessing.

Personally I don't think the ASB is an issue for people using metro, that has been going around for many years which is highlighted more with social media. It's more to do with the prices when maybe for some driving is probably a cheaper option and the bus most definitely is and will be for a very long time. I understand regarding inflation but the prices are a joke really.

Sorry, my mistake, safety speaking is personal safety. Operationally we still have a fairly good record for no major incidents.

I certainly would beg to differ, asb is rampant now, there used to be small pockets of trouble usually concentrated in specific areas, now it seems to be across the entire network. I used to use Metro all the time because it was simply easier but now I will actively choose to drive.
Fares are relatively cheap unless you're making a short trip (especially between zones). PayG Pop cards need to be more widely available, and obtainable on the day from a machine, more so when Nexus are keen on keeping the fares on Pop cards lower than paper tickets. That someone arriving at Airport, or Central Station can't just get a Pop card is crazy. Considering the advertising we pump out telling people to switch to it, it has to be the hardest thing to obtain.

 

[DanNCL]

You've worked on this in an official capacity or as an enthusiast?

The issue isn't on Network Rails side, but Nexus, they want a headline 6 minute frequency through the core, instead of one train coming along for SSS, then 8 minutes for SHL, then 4 minutes for SSS, repeat. It's entirely possible to do this without changing anything regards Network Rail. The Jarrow tank trains come and go as they please, they only have a booked path once onto Network Rails infrastructure so they aren't going to cause any issues.

Ultimately, this is all going to change with the 10 minute timetable. The issue at present is Metro currently requires additional protection on the extension, and with all the freight trundling along it can be quite a challenge. There is plenty of capacity to add additional services along here, and the issue will be sorted come 2027/2028, hopefully.

I worked on this in an official capacity a few years ago. The organisation I was with at the time had a good working relationship with Nexus and this was one of the many matters we looked at with them, others included security and customer information.

There were two ways of achieving improved connections at Gosforth. One option was as you say to have uneven headways through the core, and as you note it was something that Nexus weren't keen on but could have been implemented without any impact on Network Rail. The other option was to adjust the turnaround times at all four termini but that would require the entire timetable to be rewritten which is where the sticking point was, as at the time Network Rail were not prepared to offer Metro anything other than its existing paths between Pelaw and Sunderland, although it should be noted that this was on the basis of the existing fleet continuing to be used and with the current signalling arrangements on the shared section. If the southbound services were all changed to run, say, 5 minutes earlier, and the northbound services all stayed in their existing paths, you'd end up with an improved connection at South Gosforth between the two lines.
No doubt it was a case of 'won't' rather than "can't", but the final say was with Nexus and if they said no it didn't happen.

This has nothing really to do with it. Metro is unreliable, that is the main issue but it is also a haven for anti social behaviour and generally has a very bad safety rep with things only getting drastically worse.
The station infrastructure looks and is shoddy, and the entire system is an uninviting and dark place - a jet black outer station with harsh but dirty white lighting. Trains that aren't getting any love cosmetically which is in turn aiding the rapid decline of safety - hopefully the current programme will change that but it certainly won't last.

Why would you choose to get the Metro, if it turns up, and potentially deal with chavs vaping, kicking in windows or just generally being obnoxious when you can drive to where you need to be? I only use Metro because it's free, and I often will choose to drive depending on time of day .

It's both. As you say Metro is unreliable, drab and has an antisocial behaviour problem, but even if that's all dealt with there's still the issue of people's mindsets towards public transport in general. Almost anyone with a car up here will drive it almost everywhere, even if the public transport provision is good. Sorting out the reliability and perceived safety of the system on its own won't attract masses out of their cars, there would need to be a lot more work to make public transport an attractive option to those who currently have a negative view of public transport. Unfortunately a large part of that work is sorting out the mess that is the bus provision in the North East and until something is done about that much of the North East public will continue to have a negative perception of public transport in general, regardless of the situation with Metro.

I certainly would beg to differ, asb is rampant now, there used to be small pockets of trouble usually concentrated in specific areas, now it seems to be across the entire network. I used to use Metro all the time because it was simply easier but now I will actively choose to drive.
Fares are relatively cheap unless you're making a short trip (especially between zones). PayG Pop cards need to be more widely available, and obtainable on the day from a machine, more so when Nexus are keen on keeping the fares on Pop cards lower than paper tickets. That someone arriving at Airport, or Central Station can't just get a Pop card is crazy. Considering the advertising we pump out telling people to switch to it, it has to be the hardest thing to obtain.

I agree with all of this.

 

[bramling]

I worked on this in an official capacity a few years ago. The organisation I was with at the time had a good working relationship with Nexus and this was one of the many matters we looked at with them, others included security and customer information.

There were two ways of achieving improved connections at Gosforth. One option was as you say to have uneven headways through the core, and as you note it was something that Nexus weren't keen on but could have been implemented without any impact on Network Rail. The other option was to adjust the turnaround times at all four termini but that would require the entire timetable to be rewritten which is where the sticking point was, as at the time Network Rail were not prepared to offer Metro anything other than its existing paths between Pelaw and Sunderland, although it should be noted that this was on the basis of the existing fleet continuing to be used and with the current signalling arrangements on the shared section. If the southbound services were all changed to run, say, 5 minutes earlier, and the northbound services all stayed in their existing paths, you'd end up with an improved connection at South Gosforth between the two lines.
No doubt it was a case of 'won't' rather than "can't", but the final say was with Nexus and if they said no it didn't happen.


It's both. As you say Metro is unreliable, drab and has an antisocial behaviour problem, but even if that's all dealt with there's still the issue of people's mindsets towards public transport in general. Almost anyone with a car up here will drive it almost everywhere, even if the public transport provision is good. Sorting out the reliability and perceived safety of the system on its own won't attract masses out of their cars, there would need to be a lot more work to make public transport an attractive option to those who currently have a negative view of public transport. Unfortunately a large part of that work is sorting out the mess that is the bus provision in the North East and until something is done about that much of the North East public will continue to have a negative perception of public transport in general, regardless of the situation with Metro.


I agree with all of this.

I’d say the reliability issues are as much of a problem as anti-social behaviour. Whilst to be fair the service tends to run fine *most* of the time, it is common to find gaps occurring, sometimes two trains on the bounce missing, which in practice means a 36-minute gap in the service. This is common enough that a typical user is going to get hit by this regularly enough for it to be a nuisance. Add in the anti social behaviour, and the propensity for trains to be withdrawn from service (either due to defects or vandalism) and it all adds up to a service you simply can’t rely on.

I agree the stations are quite hostile too. The design feels quite hostile, and features like the concrete footbridges do give the feeling of a brutalist council estate.

 

[ModernRailways]

It's both. As you say Metro is unreliable, drab and has an antisocial behaviour problem, but even if that's all dealt with there's still the issue of people's mindsets towards public transport in general. Almost anyone with a car up here will drive it almost everywhere, even if the public transport provision is good. Sorting out the reliability and perceived safety of the system on its own won't attract masses out of their cars, there would need to be a lot more work to make public transport an attractive option to those who currently have a negative view of public transport. Unfortunately a large part of that work is sorting out the mess that is the bus provision in the North East and until something is done about that much of the North East public will continue to have a negative perception of public transport in general, regardless of the situation with Metro.

Anecdotally, I know of plenty of people, including friends, who used to commute by metro but now don’t because it’s unreliable and considered unsafe. Even if people do have a car, they will choose to travel by Metro should Metro provide a good alternative. The issue is Metro fails at doing so, you could turn up and if you’ve just missed a train, it’s a 12-15 minute potential wait. If there’s disruption it could be an even longer wait. There’s just zero incentive or motivation by Nexus and the bosses to try and get people back. They’re trying so hard in marketing to get people on board but nobody cares.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Until the new trains arrive, it is what it is.

As for the connection at South Gosforth, realistically there’s not much option for bringing it down. For connections between the lines to work it needs to be that trains on the same line pass at South Gosforth. Given the long walk round, you’d struggle to make the minimum connection less than five minutes.

 

[bristolianre]

The daytime connection time at South Gosforth is presently 1 minute -- or 13 minutes. Thirteen minutes on a 12-minute service.
One is put in mind of

for connecting passengers....

It is interesting to compare the present service with that provided in March 1985:

In those days you just had to guess timings for Monkseaton, Cullercoats, Percy Main, West Jesmond, Pelaw, etc.