Withdrawn bus routes for which demand would now exist

[Martin1988]

Can anyone think of any examples of bus routes which have previously been withdrawn due to lack of passengers but if reinstated there would likely be more demand? For example due to new housing, employment, educational or retail opportunities that have since been created on that route?

 

[Harpers Tate]

The town of Worksop is less than 20 miles from Sheffield, yet there are no buses between the two places. The last attempt at providing such a service, in the late 90s/early 0ies was driven to failure by the operator, Stagecoach, who oversaw probably the worst ongoing reliability I have ever seen anywhere. It was interworked with another route and it was that route that had huge traffic issues in a few places. Thus they drove away their "demand" by buses running anything up to an hour late - DAILY - and the service ultimately ended.

There is latent demand both from worker traffic and from shopping and leisure - especially on non-schooldays. One only has to look at the railway (over)loading at these times for evidence. Yet none of the operators can see a market here. Meanwhile, all of five miles closer, the third-rate ex-mining village of Dinnington has 3x direct services per hour to Sheffield. Oh, and Worksop to the highly desirable employment and shopping hub - Rotherham - is similarly served, 2x per hour.

There is no accounting for it.

 

[tbtc]

The town of Worksop is less than 20 miles from Sheffield, yet there are no buses between the two places

Good shout - Dinnington is in South Yorkshire but (the much bigger settlement of) Worksop is over the border in Nottinghamshire so public transport gives up!

One other example around Sheffield is the old UniversEighty (or "80" as old fashioned people would call it), the First SY UniLink service that used branded ex-London double deckers in a horseshoe route linking the Halls Of Residence at Endcliffe to the University Of Sheffield in one direction (terminating on the edge of the City Centre at Mappin Street) and the Hallam University buildings on Ecclesall Road/ City Centre/ Bus Station in the other direction. Every ten minutes both ways, discounted Student fares, late night service etc. This was around ten years ago.

Only problem was that the University were knocking down the Halls around this time (modernising them, replacing 1960s tower blocks with something more like twenty first century), so the service was cut back to an extension of the 44 beyond the Hallamshire Hospital every fifteen minutes (no service to Ecclesall Road), then cut back to a half hourly Stagecoach loop, then eventually an off-peak diversion of the Sheffield Community Transport 10/10a which provides an hourly Optare Solo around the inner city suburbs, such a circuitous route (which runs nowhere near the lecture theatres/ Students Union) that it'd be quicker to walk to the City Centre.

If First had waited until the Halls were re-opened, it could have been a great money spinner, but Endcliffe went from getting a "turn up and go" service (at a time when nobody lived there) to an hourly off-peak Solo (that is more about box ticking than providing a worthwhile service).

 

[Mwanesh]

One thing you you forgot to mention is that if the market was there they would try it.The same traffic issues are still there.The Sheffield Mansfield 53 route struggles due to traffic.Most Worksop people find it easier to get to Chesterfied on the 77 and jump on the X17 to Sheffield.I have worked both routes double decker operation only.If Worksop had the depot capacity they may try it again but will need Yorkshire help in Sheffield.In Chesterfield if the 77 is delayed too much they normally put out a spare decker to run the service since its operated from both ends.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Good shout - Dinnington is in South Yorkshire but (the much bigger settlement of) Worksop is over the border in Nottinghamshire so public transport gives up!

I'm sure there is a "reason" there - but since bus services in a deregulated system are wholly commercial, old demarcation lines (such as county boundaries) only have relevance in the past - and in those (in bus service management, presumably) who cling onto such things.

One thing you you forgot to mention is that if the market was there they would try it. The same traffic issues are still there.The Sheffield Mansfield 53 route struggles due to traffic.Most Worksop people find it easier to get to Chesterfied on the 77 and jump on the X17 to Sheffield.

As I said earlier - I suspect the latent market IS there; the usage of the rail service tells enough of a story. But the bus company has decided that because nobody used it when it did run there is no market. Of course the reason nobody used it wasn't about latent demand; it was down to the utterly dismal operational performance. The traffic issues to which I refer were (are) substantially nothing to do with the (potential) Sheffield/Worksop corridor; they all arose in the interworked other route (in places such as Woodseats). And I can't imagine anyone in Worksop in their right minds choosing to spend something like 85 minutes on a double decker on the laborious, tedious route to Chesterfield, only so that they can change buses there in order to reach Sheffield - except if they are massively patient (or "tight") fare-payers and need to buy a single company ticket.

 

[158756]

I'm sure there is a "reason" there - but since bus services in a deregulated system are wholly commercial, old demarcation lines (such as county boundaries) only have relevance in the past - and in those (in bus service management, presumably) who cling onto such things.

I think the county boundary is relevant - presumably the Rotherham operator became part of First, while Worksop went to Stagecoach. If the same company had the lot I suspect the through service would be more likely to exist. As it is Stagecoach would have to go for quite frequent buses to get any passengers from intermediate stops, whilst First would be significantly more expensive for anyone making connections from Worksop. Plus there's the train to compete with, planned to be faster and more frequent in the not too distant future.

 

[Mwanesh]

County boundaries are more relevant nowadays than in the past.Try negotiating for ENCTS usage in a cross county bus service .You have to negotiate with different LA and they all pay different rates for the same route.

 

[johnnychips]

East Midlands used to run service 18 from Doncaster to Worksop but then curtailed it at Dinnington in about 1990, not sure of reason. John Powell run the route today.

 

[Mugby]

I've always found it surprising that Service 10, Chesterfield - Rotherham was withdrawn, it linked two sizeable towns and passed through some well populated areas.

Being a joint service operated by the two corporations, was it a casualty of de-regulation?
Stagecoach could easily fit it into their operations now.

 

[alangla]

One that did happen - Western Scottish used to run a service from Ayr to Airdrie that was withdrawn decades ago. About 10 years ago Stagecoach introduced a service from Ayr to Hamilton (so a significant part of the way), albeit via new motorways and bypasses, but it's taken root and still runs commercially.

 

[BradK2017]

The first example i thought of was Wigan to Manchester. Possibly the only one of the larger towns in GM to not have a direct link to the city (apart from Eves + Sundays,what looks to be getting withdrawn anyway) With the success of the Busway services to Leigh,i wounder if in future there could be a viable way to extend it onto Wigan in some form. Even though it has the train (but i`m guessing Northerns recent problems might have affected this line) but other towns manage to still have a bus service as well as Trains or Metrolink into the City.

 

[jonesy3001]

I would say the 400 Trans Lancs Express, Airport/Stockport-Ashton-Oldham-Rochdale-Bury and Bolton or even the 401 that went from Wigan to Oldham via Middleton , with all the problems with railway lines at the mo these services would come in handy has they used to express between the towns.

 

[Statto]

Main problem with the old 400 is it took around 2 hours end to end, doubt many would use that route to commute Bolton or Bury to Stockport or vice versa, Bolton-Bury-Rochdale is served by the slower although more frequent 471, & Rochdale-Oldham-Ashton by the 409.

 

[route101]

One that did happen - Western Scottish used to run a service from Ayr to Airdrie that was withdrawn decades ago. About 10 years ago Stagecoach introduced a service from Ayr to Hamilton (so a significant part of the way), albeit via new motorways and bypasses, but it's taken root and still runs commercially.

Yeah runs hourly , i think it has been up to half hourly before . I think it was introduced late 2005.

 

[Ianno87]

The first example i thought of was Wigan to Manchester. Possibly the only one of the larger towns in GM to not have a direct link to the city (apart from Eves + Sundays,what looks to be getting withdrawn anyway) With the success of the Busway services to Leigh,i wounder if in future there could be a viable way to extend it onto Wigan in some form. Even though it has the train (but i`m guessing Northerns recent problems might have affected this line) but other towns manage to still have a bus service as well as Trains or Metrolink into the City.

Only Stockport, Oldham and Ashton are buses really a viable competitor to rail services to the city centre, in my opinion. Journey times don't really compete for Bolton, Bury and Rochdale - Wigan would be touching an hour and a half or so end to end.

Main problem with the old 400 is it took around 2 hours end to end, doubt many would use that route to commute Bolton or Bury to Stockport or vice versa, Bolton-Bury-Rochdale is served by the slower although more frequent 471, & Rochdale-Oldham-Ashton by the 409.

When First ran it it *was* popular, but did abstract from the 409/471 to a large degree. I'm convinced it was in itself profitable - but I reckon First took the view they could drop it but still convey most passengers on other routes - and they visibly ran it down towards the end (poorer quality buses).

Blue Bus could never male it work, straying far outside their core territory, and an ambitious timetable at the mercy of tradfic delays.