Witness statement mg11 issued

[tommy-a]

Good day all,

This is the first time that i have done this.
- A witness statement mg11 was issued to me this morning. I took the south eastern high speed train with a ticket that skipped 1 station from my Local station.
- I printed my ticket and boarded from Gravesend, but the ticket was valid Stratford international to Kingscross International.

- I have been fined before for using the wrong rail card (16-17, rather than 26-30, never done it again).

What is the most likely outcome in this situation.
Can someone please advice the next steps

 

[mikeg]

Presumably you were going to St Pancras International? When you say you have been fined before did you mean a penalty fare or did you have to go to court? A penalty fare is not a fine even if it feels like one. Either way, was the wrong railcard with Southeastern?

You'll most likely get a letter notifying you of SE;s intent to prosecute and asking you for your version of the events. In reply to this, you need to say you are sorry, reassure them it won't happen again and that you will always pay the fare due going forward before getting on the train. You should also say you realise this has cost them money and offer to pay for the cost of the investigation and the full fare due. If you do this and they believe you, you may be invited to settle out of court. The ball is however in their court and they can choose to proceed to prosecute either under the railway byelaws or section 5 of the Regulation of Railways act 1889; both are punishable by a fine of no more than £1000, the latter comes with a criminal record. The actual fine will be lower and will depend on any previous offending, any aggravating or mitigating factors and your income.

It should be also noted that the regulation of railways act carries a possible prision sentence of up to three months for any second or subsequent offence, but this is very rarely used.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

The first thing that is likely to happen is that the railway will write to you to seek your side of the story. In recent weeks, Southeastern have been doing this very promptly so you may well get a letter in the next few days. But because of the way the law works, the railway could leave it for six months before they're in touch, so keep an eye on your post.

Assuming that you don't dispute the facts, you should reply promptly to this letter: complete all the boxes on the form accurately, and on the back of the letter write briefly and courteously to
- explain that you know that you were wrong to only have a ticket from Stratford when you got on at Gravesend
- say sorry
- confirm that you won't do it again
- asking if the railway would allow you to settle for the fare not paid and the costs that the railway has incurred.

What happens next is then up to the railway. Our experience is that the railway becomes increasingly tough on people seen as repeat offenders, so they may decide to take you to court. Even if they do, you can carry on asking for an out of court settlement until the case is actually heard. But if the case does end up in court, expect to pay a fine plus various court costs as well as the fare you didn't pay and the railway's costs.

 

[tommy-a]

going

Hello Mikeg,

Yes, by fined i mean a penalty fare.

I was traveling to Kingston. But he took the ticket with him anyway.
So I used my Oyster for the rest of my journey.

"You'll most likely get a letter notifying you of SE;s intent to prosecute and asking you for your version of the events. In reply to this, you need to say you are sorry, reassure them it won't happen again and that you will always pay the fare due going forward before getting on the train."
----^----
Your reply is reassuring thank you.

Welcome to the forum.

The first thing that is likely to happen is that the railway will write to you to seek your side of the story. In recent weeks, Southeastern have been doing this very promptly so you may well get a letter in the next few days. But because of the way the law works, the railway could leave it for six months before they're in touch, so keep an eye on your post.

Assuming that you don't dispute the facts, you should reply promptly to this letter: complete all the boxes on the form accurately, and on the back of the letter write briefly and courteously to
- explain that you know that you were wrong to only have a ticket from Stratford when you got on at Gravesend
- say sorry
- confirm that you won't do it again
- asking if the railway would allow you to settle for the fare not paid and the costs that the railway has incurred.

What happens next is then up to the railway. Our experience is that the railway becomes increasingly tough on people seen as repeat offenders, so they may decide to take you to court. Even if they do, you can carry on asking for an out of court settlement until the case is actually heard. But if the case does end up in court, expect to pay a fine plus various court costs as well as the fare you didn't pay and the railway's costs.

Thank you for the reply.

If it does go to court will this be a criminal offence?

 

[221129]

If it does go to court will this be a criminal offence?

Yes. And if they use the Regulation of Railways Act then you will receive a criminal record if found guilty.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum! I have put below the advice I usually give to people who seek advice in similar circumstances to yourself.

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this, and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court, however harsh this may seem.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around a hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

One final point is that the train company might take a harsher line as you have come to their attention before. There is nothing you can do about this now but in future you should be careful to make sure you purchase the correct ticket for your journey.

 

[6Gman]

Yes. And if they use the Regulation of Railways Act then you will receive a criminal record if found guilty.

And given this appears to be a clear case of short-faring the intent required for a RoRA prosecution would not be difficult to prove.

 

[island]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Gravesend?

Where were you spoken to by the ticket inspector?

How long before your journey did you purchase your ticket?

 

[RPOMan]

This seems to be a popular method of fare evasion currently. I would contact SE and be honest about why you bought a short ticket. The maximum penalty is £1000, you could also receive a criminal record.

 

[js1000]

This seems to be a popular method of fare evasion currently. I would contact SE and be honest about why you bought a short ticket. The maximum penalty is £1000, you could also receive a criminal record.

Many would say fare shorting is worse than buying no ticket at all. If you don't buy a ticket at least you're blatant and take the risk, whereas fare shorting is deliberately defrauding the railway in the hope you don't get caught.

Remember years ago on Northern Rail, it was not uncommon for anyone who boarded the nearest station to Piccadilly (usually Levenshulme, Mauldeth Road and Ashburys) to be given a plastic token by security staff before going onto the platform. Anyone who attempted to buy a ticket when arriving at Piccadilly and claimed to be travelling from the closest station but could not produce a token were identified as short farers.

Presumably you were going to St Pancras International? When you say you have been fined before did you mean a penalty fare or did you have to go to court? A penalty fare is not a fine even if it feels like one. Either way, was the wrong railcard with Southeastern?

You'll most likely get a letter notifying you of SE;s intent to prosecute and asking you for your version of the events. In reply to this, you need to say you are sorry, reassure them it won't happen again and that you will always pay the fare due going forward before getting on the train. You should also say you realise this has cost them money and offer to pay for the cost of the investigation and the full fare due. If you do this and they believe you, you may be invited to settle out of court. The ball is however in their court and they can choose to proceed to prosecute either under the railway byelaws or section 5 of the Regulation of Railways act 1889; both are punishable by a fine of no more than £1000, the latter comes with a criminal record. The actual fine will be lower and will depend on any previous offending, any aggravating or mitigating factors and your income.

It should be also noted that the regulation of railways act carries a possible prision sentence of up to three months for any second or subsequent offence, but this is very rarely used.

"Very rarely". Pfft.... about as rare as a flying pig!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Many would say fare shorting is worse than buying no ticket at all. If you don't buy a ticket at least you're blatant and take the risk, whereas fare shorting is deliberately defrauding the railway in the hope you don't get caught.

Remember years ago on Northern Rail, it was not uncommon for anyone who boarded the nearest station to Piccadilly (usually Levenshulme, Mauldeth Road and Ashburys) to be given a plastic token by security staff before going onto the platform. Anyone who attempted to buy a ticket when arriving at Piccadilly and claimed to be travelling from the closest station but could not produce a token were identified as short farers.


"Very rarely". Pfft.... about as rare as a flying pig!

If you are referencing prison, it is certainly not that rare, although it certainly isn’t common. 1-day detention in the court cells is also extremely common for fare evasion, as you can imagine, there are certain elements within society who cannot and will not ever have the ability to pay a fine, so get locked up in the cells for the day instead until the court shuts.

Actual being sent to prison does happen very occasionally, but in all cases are the types of people who have done this repeatedly and repeatedly, despite a long string of convictions and “chances”.

Eventually the Mags just give up and they’re sent down for 8-12 weeks. Not that I wish to stereotype offenders, but I’m sure you can picture the type of person who finds themselves in such a situation. It is certainly not someone who would ever look on this forum, and will have other extensive offending history.

Nobody on this forum is ever going to prison for routine fare evasion unless they are on first name terms with the prosecution and Mags!

Counterfeiting / more advanced fraud style fare evasion increases the chance of prison, but it would still be unusual even then.