WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Interesting mix of finals, tomorrow.
Last day for WMR 170s, EMR 156s, SN 313s and TfW 769s!

 

[LowLevel]

Interesting mix of finals, tomorrow.
Last day for WMR 170s, EMR 156s, SN 313s and TfW 769s!

Aren't at least some of those finishing Saturday?

Actually, I just remembered it's probably already Friday for you

 

[william.martin]

Tomorrow's peak AM diagram will be the last one. Last day to Hereford today.

Do you mean peak am diagram on Birmingham to Shrewsbury?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Aren't at least some of those finishing Saturday?

Actually, I just remembered it's probably already Friday for you

It was 23:51 on Thursday
Nah, Rhymney line is buses on the weekend, we’ve just discussed its last day of 170s here, reported 156s finish at EMR tomorrow in another thread, and 313s will no longer be running this Saturday unless you count a service at five minutes past midnight.

 

[Techniquest]

Wow the end of many eras then! I never got around to a final trip on much of the stuff ending this week. It's going to be weird never seeing a 170 in Hereford again!

 

[william.martin]

Wow the end of many eras then! I never got around to a final trip on much of the stuff ending this week. It's going to be weird never seeing a 170 in Hereford again!

Yes, I was bought up on the 170's however I must admit running around in LM interior wasn't great although never mind.

Back on topic, the 196's are a certain improvement from the 170's and as train introductions into services go I think they have been exceptionally well behaved

 

[GalaxyDog]

Yes, I was bought up on the 170's however I must admit running around in LM interior wasn't great although never mind.

Back on topic, the 196's are a certain improvement from the 170's and as train introductions into services go I think they have been exceptionally well behaved

You are bloody joking, right?

 

[QSK19]

as train introductions into services go I think they have been exceptionally well behaved

Mmm, you may raise one or two eyebrows with that one.

In actual fact, the 196 introduction has been nothing but shambolic, not only at the WMR level but also knock on effects elsewhere (eg EMR not getting the 170s it desperately needed, which in turn prevented the 156 cascade to Northern).

I do note that, by writing “they”, you’re stating that the trains themselves have been well-behaved. There is some level of truth in that (ie it’s not like the trains themselves could have done much about being spec’ed poorly!); however overall, it’s a lesson on how not to introduce a fleet!

 

[Techniquest]

The trains themselves, certainly they've behaved pretty well. A much smoother introduction than some classes, the best examples of major issues being 701, 769 and 777. Of course, issues such as having to be retro-fitted with guard's panels amongst other stuff, well that's how it is. I've not had a bad journey on a 196 yet, and I remain impressed with them.

It could have gone better, without question, but the important part right now is that the rollout is nearly complete. It has taken a long time to get to this point, but we're finally nearly there.

I absolutely am looking forward to the new era of travel from Hereford to Birmingham, and I hope on Wednesday to do my first journey throughout on a 196.

 

[Undiscovered]

Back on topic, the 196's are a certain improvement from the 170's and as train introductions into services go I think they have been exceptionally well behaved

That the 196s running on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line are still throwing up new, random faults is contrary to your statement.
Add that it's getting to the stage now where they've been in service long enough for each unit to be known by its own particular quirk, and I'd say it's been far from exceptional.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That the 196s running on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line are still throwing up new, random faults is contrary to your statement.
Add that it's getting to the stage now where they've been in service long enough for each unit to be known by its own particular quirk, and I'd say it's been far from exceptional.

How does the Class 196 units in their early stages compare with the introduction time period of the Class 195 units on the Northern Trains area.

 

[william.martin]

You are bloody joking, right?

Mmm, you may raise one or two eyebrows with that one.

In actual fact, the 196 introduction has been nothing but shambolic, not only at the WMR level but also knock on effects elsewhere (eg EMR not getting the 170s it desperately needed, which in turn prevented the 156 cascade to Northern).

I do note that, by writing “they”, you’re stating that the trains themselves have been well-behaved. There is some level of truth in that (ie it’s not like the trains themselves could have done much about being spec’ed poorly!); however overall, it’s a lesson on how not to introduce a fleet!

Well, it may of took a while to get them actually carrying passengers however as soon as they did they have them they have worked hard and have hardly broke down compared to other classes E.G 777.

 

[Undiscovered]

How does the Class 196 units in their early stages compare with the introduction time period of the Class 195 units on the Northern Trains area.

I don't know. I'm not familiar with the 195 introduction.

 

[voithgearbox]

Friday will see a pair of 196’s covering the current 170/172 diagram starting with 2B00 05:56 Worcs - Hereford. This will allow the 170/172 to cover the current 196 diagram for the AM only to get the 170 back to Tyseley. The evening part will be 196’s as booked leaving 2 pairs at Worcs ready for Monday morning. There should be a 196 diagram from Sunday starting with the 10:05 Worcs SH-New St

morning all, just wondering if anyone has sighted the 196 starting on 2B00 today yet, also assuming it'll be working 1V21 1650 BHM-HFD later? Thanks

 

[SuperLuke2334]

morning all, just wondering if anyone has sighted the 196 starting on 2B00 today yet, also assuming it'll be working 1V21 1650 BHM-HFD later? Thanks

I haven't seen confirmation of units, but that is the right diagram you've got yes.

 

[bnsf734]

Does anybody know if the introduction of Class 196s on the Nuneaton - Leamington service is on schedule for the start of the new timetable or some later date?

Thanks

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Does anybody know if the introduction of Class 196s on the Nuneaton - Leamington service is on schedule for the start of the new timetable or some later date?

Thanks

Will be a later date AFAIK due to 2 cars exclusively being needed on Herefords until saloon GOPs are fitted to the 4 car units.

 

[bnsf734]

Thanks for the update SuperLuke.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Thanks for the update SuperLuke.

I'm sure it will be said here when they are due to start.

 

[voithgearbox]

I haven't seen confirmation of units, but that is the right diagram you've got yes.

Cheers mate, will head down later to take a look, much appreciated!

 

[Techniquest]

So just to make sure I'm genned up correctly, how many services are expected to be 196s from Monday?

 

[GalaxyDog]

Mmm, you may raise one or two eyebrows with that one.

In actual fact, the 196 introduction has been nothing but shambolic, not only at the WMR level but also knock on effects elsewhere (eg EMR not getting the 170s it desperately needed, which in turn prevented the 156 cascade to Northern).

I do note that, by writing “they”, you’re stating that the trains themselves have been well-behaved. There is some level of truth in that (ie it’s not like the trains themselves could have done much about being spec’ed poorly!); however overall, it’s a lesson on how not to introduce a fleet!

They were built cheaply to a shoddy agenda (oust the guard grade) and as a result have backfired spectacularly, even now coming up with random faults such as faulty power packs and fire system issues meaning they have to be taken out of service and leaving passengers stranded.

Well, it may of took a while to get them actually carrying passengers however as soon as they did they have them they have worked hard and have hardly broke down compared to other classes E.G 777.

Having taken a breather....it's a "no" from me. You've had a few spotter trips and seen them on a lucky day. Traincrews are counting double-digit amounts of breakdowns they've had since they were put into service and that's before all the other continual faults such as air con not working, cab heating breaking, central computers freezing up and disabling the train, and so forth. I can forsee punctuality etc across WMR going down the sink as these become more prevalent and worn in (out?) more.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

So just to make sure I'm genned up correctly, how many services are expected to be 196s from Monday?

2/4 diagrams unsure which yet.

 

[uniquicity]

Its 007 and 008 on the Hereford diagram

 

[Techniquest]

2/4 diagrams unsure which yet.

Thanks, I'll definitely pop out for a bit of red penning I reckon. Going to need all the mood boosts I can get at the moment, work's being tougher than it is during the winter months!

 

[voithgearbox]

Here's 196008 leading classmate 07 heading down to Hereford, on 1V21 BHM-HFD this afternoon. Much quieter than the 170/172s they replaced, I must say.

Also featured is FGW liveried 166221, assuming today's the last weekday with direct Warminster/Westbury trains before they get cut back to Worcester?
(excuse the camera photos, these were taken directly from my computer's monitor)

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Any news on diagrams on Herefords tomorrow? Thanks.

 

[voithgearbox]

20:41 to Great Malvern. If you know who to use Realtime trains it’s quite easy to work out.

looking at this from 2 weeks ago, assuming they'd be booked on the same diagrams?
Starting with 5M52 Worcester LMD to Hereford,
To Hereford 1V23 1V27 1V21
To Snow Hill 1M52 1M61 1M89 1M78
Then the 2041 1V28 to Great Malvern, 1B28 back to Worcester Foregate then 5B28 to Worcester LMD?

Could be completely wrong though, do correct me.

 

[Badgerer]

Caught the 16:50 out of BHM yesterday, first experience. As a passenger, I have to say a massive disappointment.

Positives: Quiet
New train smell for those that enjoy such things
Negatives: Appalling seats, worst train seats I've ever sat upon, anywhere in any decade
Internal ambience grimly clinical (somehow they've sourced grey lighting)
Ride appreciably worse than the 172/170s over junctions
A quiet Friday and still many people standing (admit a procurement/planning failure rather than the fault of the rolling stock)
Too much airline seating, legroom seemed worse than 172s (but haven't measured either).
Aisle seems appreciably narrower than 172/170 without noticeable seat width benefit.
Poor footspace under seats, intrusive ducting by window seats.

So overall, no benefits I'm seeing from however much was spent. A far better and cheaper outcome would have been to get hold of more carriages compatible with the 170s and simply run longer trains. Re-use of the old PEP carriages shows they could have done this, maybe grabbed some of the 321 carriages and done a modest refit (if need be as trailers). Reading the forum on the topic of seats and its quite apparent that UK railway buyers don't use trains, and have no understanding of seat comfort. Maybe they've had a human described to them but never encountered one. How can it be that the simple job of providing a moderately comfortable and supportive seat is completely beyond then in the 2020s?

East Midlands passengers, you want new trains, I'll do you a swap: You have the 196s, we'll keep the 170s. Now there's a pretty damning indictment of an exercise that's taken the railway's finest many years and cost a good few hundred million quid, and a regrettable theme for a first post to this forum.

 

[Techniquest]

Yikes that's a grim thought, swapping 196s to EMR for the 170s back! Your experiences do not match mine in any way, legroom was amazing on the seats I tried and I've no issues with comfort whatsoever.