WMT Class 730 impressions

[Purple Train]

On Monday I was able to walk through between 730 007 and 730 010 on the 15.54 off Euston, so yes - it's available.

I walked through it on Friday without realising it was there!

In terms of my impressions: I think they're quality units, nice seats, basically a 720 with tables (which is my only criticism of the 720) - except for the ride, which I thought was distinctly shabbier, and not as good as that on a 350.

 

[Bletchleyite]

except for the ride, which I thought was distinctly shabbier, and not as good as that on a 350.

I think that may depend where you sit. A 350 is smooth as silk if you're sitting between the doors, but at the end it's decidedly juddery. The 730 ride seemed decent to me, though different.

I'd criticise more about the 720 than the lack of tables myself. The metal box and decoration is fundamentally good - far better in quality than the *star, for instance, and the windows are huge and pleasingly consistent in size (they'd work well with a Class 158 style alternating layout). But the 720 is basically designed for skinny people and small children, which is inexcusable when you think that on a commuter route the majority of passengers are podgy middle aged men, and the 730 suffers similarly from the seats being too narrow. (I will measure the seats on a 350/2 when I get near one - I still think they are wider).

I do however think, provided they don't cram one row too many in and have no legroom, that the 5-car 2+2-with-armrests version will be excellent, possibly the best among the middle-distance OHLE commuter EMUs.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think that may depend where you sit. A 350 is smooth as silk if you're sitting between the doors, but at the end it's decidedly juddery. The 730 ride seemed decent to me, though different.

I'd criticise more about the 720 than the lack of tables myself. The metal box and decoration is fundamentally good - far better in quality than the *star, for instance, and the windows are huge and pleasingly consistent in size (they'd work well with a Class 158 style alternating layout). But the 720 is basically designed for skinny people and small children, which is inexcusable when you think that on a commuter route the majority of passengers are podgy middle aged men, and the 730 suffers similarly from the seats being too narrow. (I will measure the seats on a 350/2 when I get near one - I still think they are wider).

The 350s are very silky smooth, I'd argue that the 37xs also ride better than the Aventras. They don't crash over point work

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 350s are very silky smooth

I wouldn't really agree - you get a very harsh judder over pointwork (e.g. Ledburn) if you sit right at the end (as I normally do as that's where the legroom is).

On the plain fast lines though, it's one of the few places in the UK to get a German like experience of going along at 110 with the only evidence of that being the view out of the window and hardly any movement at all.

 

[Purple Train]

I'd criticise more about the 720 than the lack of tables myself. The metal box and decoration is fundamentally good - far better in quality than the *star, for instance, and the windows are huge and pleasingly consistent in size (they'd work well with a Class 158 style alternating layout). But the 720 is basically designed for skinny people and small children, which is inexcusable when you think that on a commuter route the majority of passengers are podgy middle aged men, and the 730 suffers similarly from the seats being too narrow. (I will measure the seats on a 350/2 when I get near one - I still think they are wider).

Fair enough - I fit into most people's pockets quite easily, so I'm not one to judge; although I quizzed a local friend and her family on their impressions of a 720 and they said that the seats were fine, so I don't think it's just me!

I think that may depend where you sit. A 350 is smooth as silk if you're sitting between the doors, but at the end it's decidedly juddery. The 730 ride seemed decent to me, though different.

My memory of 350s from years ago is the acceleration being so smooth I didn't actually feel the train set off! It felt quite juddery on the approach to Euston on one of my fill-in moves on Friday, but I was standing in the vestibule, leaning heavily against the wall, hungry, and totally distracted from matters of keeping my balance, so I attributed it to that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seats on a 350/2 are 450mm wide, or 15mm (1.5cm or about half an inch) wider than the 730. Also spaced about 1cm from the sidewall.

 

[AJDesiro]

Seats on a 350/2 are 450mm wide, or 15mm (1.5cm or about half an inch) wider than the 730. Also spaced about 1cm from the sidewall.

I find it odd they didn't go for the 450mm variant of the kiel seat, like the 720 priority seats, when they're configured in a 2+2 layout. Would a 6cm reduction in aisle width really have much of an impact?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Short formed down to 3 on the 0656 off Bletchley this morning. Not great, but due to the standing space it coped better than a 350 would. Hope this isn't going to be a regular occurrence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The space for standing is very impressive and will swallow a very large number of people but unfortunately the seats are not fit for purpose. I personally think for the Cross City line that if standing room is the priority and the full London Overground spec was not considered appropriate, they'd have been better off going for a 2+ 1 layout of properly spaced seats or even 2 on one side and longitudinal on the other.

(from other thread)

Copying the Class 345 verbatim would have worked fine.

 

[Amos]

Seats on a 350/2 are 450mm wide, or 15mm (1.5cm or about half an inch) wider than the 730. Also spaced about 1cm from the sidewall.

There seems to be a very niche subset of rail enthusiasm developing here.

 

[birchesgreen]

There seems to be a very niche subset of rail enthusiasm developing here.

I've seen enthusiasts with a tape measure on new stock.

 

[185]

There seems to be a very niche subset of rail enthusiasm developing here.

I think there's a fair point. No trains seating should be narrower or worse placed (no spacers, closer to the bulkhead) than a 350/2.

May the Lord almighty strike the designer down

 

[Amos]

I think there's a fair point. No trains seating should be narrower or worse placed (no spacers, closer to the bulkhead) than a 350/2.

May the Lord almighty strike the designer down

I quite agree with you about new seats,which are seemingly a downgrade on many of the new stock.Didn’t mean to be derogatory either,it did make me chuckle though imagining people boarding every unit with a tape measure and notebook .

 

[Kite159]

Just had a spin to & from Harrow & Wealdstone

Good points - acceleration, wide aisle, big overhead luggage racks and well placed big bins (none of those tiny hidden away bins found on other new units)

Bad points - Those oddly shaped narrow seats which rival a 170/1 in the lack of legroom. Would be so much better if there was a spacer between them to stop the aisle getting filled up with bodies overhanging the seats
Took 30 seconds for the doors to get released (shows how superior driver release is on other stock).

I just hope the 730/2s are better if not my trips using them to Crewe will be a lot more limited using LNR services.

 

[172007]

Just had a spin to & from Harrow & Wealdstone

Good points - acceleration, wide aisle, big overhead luggage racks and well placed big bins (none of those tiny hidden away bins found on other new units)

Bad points - Those oddly shaped narrow seats which rival a 170/1 in the lack of legroom. Would be so much better if there was a spacer between them to stop the aisle getting filled up with bodies overhanging the seats
Took 30 seconds for the doors to get released (shows how superior driver release is).

I just hope the 730/2s are better if not my trips using them to Crewe will be a lot more limited using LNR services.

No driver release for these on WMT / LNWR.

 

[trainJam]

Took 30 seconds for the doors to get released (shows how superior driver release is on other stock).

I sure hope this is not the case when these come to the cross city... there is a green line on the platform here (so usually almost instant guard release, proving that guard release can still be fast), although I doubt they will be as fast as the 323s door wise.

I think it is not very good if this is going to become a frequent (rather than a one-off or just "teething issues") event. In that case, even 350s or 484s are faster.

Perhaps the acceleration (if used) makes up the time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On LNR they are running in 319 paths so run early despite the slow door release issue.

 

[AJDesiro]

I finally managed to get a journey in on these today, and they are quite a mixed bag. I agree with @Bletchleyite’s comment about the lighting (far too bright) and seat width. I do however prefer these to the 323s and 350/2s that they’re going to be replacing, purely down to the fact that these have better charging facilities and more single seats.

The seats are quite firm but I think they’re nicely shaped, though my thighs did hurt - but that’s probably down to spending a day bashing units in London, which always causes this pain on the way home regardless of rolling stock.

My local station is hopefully going to be served by the 730/2 variant, and I’m hopeful that with the armrests and maybe wider seats, they could end up being one of the best modern regional trains in the country, I just hope they sort the lighting out!

 

[NewClee153]

There’s at least 1 M-F diagram on the Wolves to Walsall line that is operated by the new class 730s.

My opinion on them? BANG average, they suffer from the same poor ride quality, lighting and poor seat width negatives that its greater anglia sister (the class 720) had, and doesn’t offer anything outstanding to the table. To be fair, carriage capacity information is a very nice touch, as well as the expected usb and plug ports at every row of seats, I can’t help but feeling a little disappointed.

While the class 196s over exceeded my expectations - given how underwhelming the 197s were and how poor the 195s are. The 730s have done nothing to move me, and I don’t see them as an upgrade on the 350s that usually frequent the Wolves to Walsall (even the 350/2s, which, despite their flaws, ride better and don’t feature rock hard seats)

For the cross city line? Yeah, it’s a nice upgrade, particularly on space, carriage information and having power ports, but the upgrade to 730s doesn’t feel as substantial as it could be

Just my thoughts though

 

[reduke]

Got to see one in the flesh today and although thankfully I didn't get on it, I was already disappointed.

When I heard they were going to be 2+2 I was happy, now I see the seats I am not

And looking at the LNR factsheet fills me with more disappointment...

3 car - 199 seats = 66 per car, divided by 4 wide gives 16 rows per car.

Assuming the same number of rows on a 5 car...

5 car - 406 seats = 81 per car, divided by 5 wide gives 16 rows per car.


So ... 3+2 again! Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The figures are wrong, they do refer to the old 3+2 spec but the actual units won't be 3+2.

 

[778]

Got to see one in the flesh today and although thankfully I didn't get on it, I was already disappointed.

When I heard they were going to be 2+2 I was happy, now I see the seats I am not

And looking at the LNR factsheet fills me with more disappointment...

3 car - 199 seats = 66 per car, divided by 4 wide gives 16 rows per car.

Assuming the same number of rows on a 5 car...

5 car - 406 seats = 81 per car, divided by 5 wide gives 16 rows per car.


So ... 3+2 again! Unless I'm missing something?

It will probably be more than 5 rows per car. There will be less standing space on the 5 car units, which allows more rows of seats. Also the the 720s which do have 3+2 seating have 490 seats. The 5 car 730s are basically 720s with end gangways, so if they did have a 3+2 layout they would have had more than 406 seats.

 

[tjhux]

I had the misfortune of riding one of these into Euston at around 9AM and was very disappointed.
They were very crowded, which for the time made sense but considering the design, it didn't make sense as they seem massive inside but it feels like half of the carriage is used for standing..? This wouldn't be too bad, but the handrails are put in such awkward places: I was standing in the middle between the doors and I had to chose to put my arm 45° forwards or backwards.
Considering these will be used on such a popular line, I think it's a very poorly thought out design to have so much standing room with such awkwardly placed handrails.

Other than this, it was a lovely and smooth ride with minimal sound!!

​

 

[trainJam]

Just a general uneducated observation - I could just be getting extremely unlucky.

Are guards not allowed to use the green line to open the doors immediately on 730s? If not, why has this changed?

9 times out of 10, on the 6 car 323s, the doors were released almost instantly - rare and very nice for a guard operated service.

Nowadays, it takes as long as if the green line never existed at all (this is with the guard in the cab*)

*I appreciate that some guards can now be seen in the saloon.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just a general uneducated observation - I could just be getting extremely unlucky.

Are guards not allowed to use the green line to open the doors immediately on 730s? If not, why has this changed?

9 times out of 10, on the 6 car 323s, the doors were released almost instantly - rare and very nice for a guard operated service.

Nowadays, it takes as long as if the green line never existed at all (this is with the guard in the cab*)

*I appreciate that some guards can now be seen in the saloon.

A 730 is just under 2 metres longer than a 323, so a pair is going to be around 3½ metres longer - I suspect this means that the green lines would need to be shortened before they could be used for 730s otherwise there is a slight risk of one set of doors being off the platforms.

 

[trainJam]

That makes sense - hopefully they are shortened and put to use soon then (and not just removed or forgotten). The time saving/loss sums up over the entire line.

 

[ambi23]

Having been on a 730 a handful of times now, i'm still undecided on whether or not I prefer them to the class 350's as yet.

Things I love: The wide gantry's, the information boards that tell you where seats are available. The fact that the A/C units don't make an excruciating thumping noise every now and then.

Things I don't love: That there's only one toilet, and i'm yet to find one that wasn't out of order when I happened to be travelling. I'm not sold on the comfort levels of the seats.

I definitely think that the 730's are more suited for journeys that last less than half an hour, but above that I would prefer to be on a 350.