Workington bridge closed? (29/02/2024)

[Lemmy99uk]

I mentioned in another thread about the stupidity of not allowing Carlisle crews to sign the route to Whitehaven.

If they had the route knowledge then a Carlisle/Maryport shuttle would be a no brainer.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

I do feel fortunate that if I need to travel to Whitehaven whilst the bridge is under repair I can go via Barrow. If I was travelling from say Glasgow then the prospect of an RRB from Carlisle to Workington would fill me with dread.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

I do feel fortunate that if I need to travel to Whitehaven whilst the bridge is under repair I can go via Barrow. If I was travelling from say Glasgow then the prospect of an RRB from Carlisle to Workington would fill me with dread.

Mind you, the vehicles are often provided by Workington Transport Heritage Trust so you might end up on a Leyland National!

 

[D6130]

Mind you, the vehicles are often provided by Workington Transport Heritage Trust so you might end up on a Leyland National!

Even worse....!

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Mind you, the vehicles are often provided by Workington Transport Heritage Trust so you might end up on a Leyland National!

Been there dobe that

 

[Oxfordblues]

I see the flasks are going via Carnforth D&UGL (run-round): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:53840/2024-03-04/detailed

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Even worse....!

It’s worse than that (he’s dead Jim…), WTHT have been using a pair of Wrights on it. I think the worst part is that some of the RRBs are actually running Carlisle all shacks to Flimby, then as required to Preston, which is a blooming long way down the coast in a car, never mind a service bus! (Not sure the nationals have a class6 any more)

I’m off to Bromsgrove this week and Radley next, so I’m trying to get Evolvi to accept that I *really* want to travel via Barrow rather than Carlisle, as it’s not updated that far ahead so still tries to book me a 9 minute connection in Carlisle which I’ll miss totally on a bus - although there could be a good delay repay on that!

Took a swing round by the bridge today, no way obvious signs of damage, but the tide was in so couldn’t see the footings, so at a guess it’s something in the river that needs fettling. I might try with the telephoto lens later in the week if the tide times allow.

Off topic, preference for driving goes a bit like this:

National MkI
Silver Shadow
DAF MB200
Volvo XC90

So make of that what you will!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I mentioned in another thread about the stupidity of not allowing Carlisle crews to sign the route to Whitehaven.

Are you saying that the 0553 and 0619 early morning departures from Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness are operated by Workington crew? And the 2317 arrival at Carlisle from Whitehaven (when it's actually running).

 

[Skymonster]

Unfortunately not, as the RRB is the Published Timetable of the Day.

Indeed, but the slower RRB means I miss onward connections back home which were valid when I bought the advance tickets, the end result being I’ll be two hours later than expected when my day ends. It will be difficult for Northern to argue it didn’t cause me a delay completing my overall journey when I have what was a valid itinerRay.

 

[156421]

Nuclear flasks can find a alternative path but heaven forbid overnight move of a 156 from Workington to Carlisle via Barrow and Carnforth

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Are you saying that the 0553 and 0619 early morning departures from Carlisle to Barrow-in-Furness are operated by Workington crew? And the 2317 arrival at Carlisle from Whitehaven (when it's actually running).

Yes. Workington crew using taxis.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Of course this is the one bridge over the Derwent that survived the 2009 storm that saw PC Bill Barker lose his life directing people off Northside bridge that collapsed.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I can't help but wonder how sound all our railway bridges are. This is the third occasion I can recall recently when a bridge suddenly closed. Plessy viaduct, Nuneham, now Workington, Nine Elms (sorry four). Plessy and Nine Elms might have been because of works and Nuneham was anticipated (though perhaps not far enough). Now this bridge has gone from open for normal traffic to too unsound to bear traffic at all. I've just booked a trip on the ECML with a very faint worry about if the civil engineering is safe. And this is without mentioning landslips, fail wing walls etc.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Does anybody know how they are working trains into Workington? Are they coming in to P2, then shunting ECS to P1, or are they heading to P1 in service?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Does anybody know how they are working trains into Workington? Are they coming in to P2, then shunting ECS to P1, or are they heading to P1 in service?

They will need to shunt from 2 to 1.

 

[Lucy1501]

The station at Workington is within the block section between Workington Main No.2 and Workington Main No.3 signal boxes. Since its absolute block, each line is only signalled in one direction.

Trains will be entering the down platform, and being allowed forward to signal 24 (which protects the bridge). They can then use the crossover (31 and 28 points) under the authority of shunt disc 34 to head to the up platform.

Here's a diagram that was within the 1984 resignalling of Workington Main No.2 signal box, its still quite accurate but much of the infastructure has been disconnected.


I suppose one of the issues with the closure of the bridge is that it means Workington No.3 signal box needs to be staffed outside of its usual hours - its normally switched out in the early morning and late nights, and on Sundays!

 

[Millisle]

It is not a necessary characteristic of absolute block that it can be signalled in only one direction, the platform road at Maryport being an example.

 

[IanXC]

Even if a third 156 was needed as part of the "Carlisle to Maryport shuttle" suggested up-thread, it's not exactly a physical impossibility to get one which is "trapped" at Workington down to Carnforth or somewhere like that of a daytime, and to tow it overnight to Carlisle. But, again, that would involve Northern planners having to do something slightly off normal, so is unthinkable.

So if your proposed unit needs to be towed it must not be fit for traffic so I don't see how that helps.

Also there are no Northern drivers who sign Oxenholme to Carlisle so not exactly something Northern can solve in isolation.

I suppose one of the issues with the closure of the bridge is that it means Workington No.3 signal box needs to be staffed outside of its usual hours - its normally switched out in the early morning and late nights, and on Sundays!

Presumably needing to find signallers to open this box will have an impact on the availability of signallers to keep Maryport to Carlisle open too.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

So if your proposed unit needs to be towed it must not be fit for traffic so I don't see how that helps.

I interpreted this slightly differently- perhaps someone like DRS (they have drivers who sign the applicable WCML and CCL) could be contracted in to drag a unit into place. That said, potentially acting as a route conductor would be better. All of that depends on availability of paths on the WCML though given the lower speeds a sprinter could do. Just a thought - hypothetically, could they do a loop Workington - Lancaster - Preston - Settle/Carlisle line to Carlisle and avoid the main line as much as possible? Totally impractical, but should only require Northern staff then?

The station at Workington is within the block section between Workington Main No.2 and Workington Main No.3 signal boxes. Since its absolute block, each line is only signalled in one direction.

Trains will be entering the down platform, and being allowed forward to signal 24 (which protects the bridge). They can then use the crossover (31 and 28 points) under the authority of shunt disc 34 to head to the up platform.

Here's a diagram that was within the 1984 resignalling of Workington Main No.2 signal box, its still quite accurate but much of the infastructure has been disconnected.
View attachment 153628

I suppose one of the issues with the closure of the bridge is that it means Workington No.3 signal box needs to be staffed outside of its usual hours - its normally switched out in the early morning and late nights, and on Sundays!

That’s a cracking bit of information, many thanks! I might have to take the camera down just to record some unusual moves around there!

 

[156421]

I interpreted this slightly differently- perhaps someone like DRS (they have drivers who sign the applicable WCML and CCL) could be contracted in to drag a unit into place. That said, potentially acting as a route conductor would be better. All of that depends on availability of paths on the WCML though given the lower speeds a sprinter could do. Just a thought - hypothetically, could they do a loop Workington - Lancaster - Preston - Settle/Carlisle line to Carlisle and avoid the main line as much as possible? Totally impractical, but should only require Northern staff then?

The "drag" idea is what I was suggesting. Perhaps "tow" was incorrect terminology.

 

[deltic08]

I interpreted this slightly differently- perhaps someone like DRS (they have drivers who sign the applicable WCML and CCL) could be contracted in to drag a unit into place. That said, potentially acting as a route conductor would be better. All of that depends on availability of paths on the WCML though given the lower speeds a sprinter could do. Just a thought - hypothetically, could they do a loop Workington - Lancaster - Preston - Settle/Carlisle line to Carlisle and avoid the main line as much as possible? Totally impractical, but should only require Northern staff then?


That’s a cracking bit of information, many thanks! I might have to take the camera down just to record some unusual moves around there!

Why not Workington-Carnforth-Settle Junction-Carlisle?

 

[Ken H]

Why not Workington-Carnforth-Settle Junction-Carlisle?

S&C is largely worked by Skipton crews, and they dont sign 156's

 

[OhNoAPacer]

It does make one wonder at the seeming lack of thought about any contingency planning.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Why not Workington-Carnforth-Settle Junction-Carlisle?

Why not just use a Heaton 156 sent over the Tyne Valley?

 

[deltic08]

S&C is largely worked by Skipton crews, and they dont sign 156's

Doesn't that equally apply to Workington-Lancaster-Preston-Hellifield-Carlisle with a class 156?

Why not just use a Heaton 156 sent over the Tyne Valley?

That is a better solution. Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Paul_10]

If I remember rightly the last time Heatons 156s were "trapped" in the north west from the derailment on the Tyne valley line , the 156 that is out on the late Cumbrian coast to Preston diagram gets swopped with a Manchester based 156 the next day. The Heaton 156 may of even done a Blackpool/Colne/Ormskirk diagram the next day before heading to Allerton depot and then head back to Heaton that way whilst meanwhile a Heaton 156 will head down the ECML towards Manchester and eventually get towards the Cumbrian coast that way.

 

[Soft Hands]

If I remember rightly the last time Heatons 156s were "trapped" in the north west from the derailment on the Tyne valley line , the 156 that is out on the late Cumbrian coast to Preston diagram gets swopped with a Manchester based 156 the next day. The Heaton 156 may of even done a Blackpool/Colne/Ormskirk diagram the next day before heading to Allerton depot and then head back to Heaton that way whilst meanwhile a Heaton 156 will head down the ECML towards Manchester and eventually get towards the Cumbrian coast that way.

There were two ECS moves today, each with three 156's tied together. Heaton to Preston and then Preston back to Heaton - over Shap. Units came down to Lancaster on the "normal" 07.10 ex Carlisle turn, and the replacements returned on the 13.19 ex Lancaster turn. Not too easy to explain why they went to and from Preston, just to keep them out of the way presumably?

 

[IanXC]

The "drag" idea is what I was suggesting. Perhaps "tow" was incorrect terminology

Drag is just the same as tow; drivers working a train containing a 156 need to sign a 156.

I interpreted this slightly differently- perhaps someone like DRS (they have drivers who sign the applicable WCML and CCL) could be contracted in to drag a unit into place. That said, potentially acting as a route conductor would be better. All of that depends on availability of paths on the WCML though given the lower speeds a sprinter could do. Just a thought - hypothetically, could they do a loop Workington - Lancaster - Preston - Settle/Carlisle line to Carlisle and avoid the main line as much as possible? Totally impractical, but should only require Northern staff then?


That’s a cracking bit of information, many thanks! I might have to take the camera down just to record some unusual moves around there!

Ah yes, find yourself a contractor who can drive a train from Lancaster to Carlisle and thats entirely different.

Neither of which addressed whether Network Rail have enough signallers to keep Carlisle - Maryport open....

 

[156421]

Drag is just the same as tow; drivers working a train containing a 156 need to sign a 156.

So a DRS driver has to sign any class of train being dragged/towed?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

The "drag" idea is what I was suggesting. Perhaps "tow" was incorrect terminology.

I had understood your intention, I was referring to the below:

So if your proposed unit needs to be towed it must not be fit for traffic so I don't see how that helps

Where @IanXC has somehow decided the unit is faulty rather than trapped by crew route knowledge.

Neither of which addressed whether Network Rail have enough signallers to keep Carlisle - Maryport open

Agreed. Or whether Northern could staff the trains. I know it’s a bit circular as each bit relies on the others happening, but there’s no point having signallers if you’ve no units or crews, and vice versa, but you need to start unraveling it from one end or the other! (Remembering that this is all speculation on a forum, with no effect on the real world)

Drag is just the same as tow; drivers working a train containing a 156 need to sign a 156.

Ok, so what do we call it when RailAdventure deliver 777s? And do the drivers delivering those sign the 777s? I understood that if something is being pulled along by a loco as “dead in train” the driver only needed to sign the loco (&route, obviously)?