Worst examples of BR era "vandalism"?

[Rescars]

Broad Street was pretty spectacular and might have scrubbed up well. Just a shame there wasn't the traffic to justify it and the site was so valuable.

 

[WesternLancer]

I quite liked the old post-war 1950s Dundee Tay Bridge seen below

View attachment 153694

To be replaced with this in the 1980s with naff cladding in ecru.

View attachment 153695


Both pics from Dundee City Archives on Flickr

I agree with your point here - in the earlier modernisation period I think there were some good quality re-builds with a welcome architectural and build quality that was generally good. Examples that come to mind include Coventry (now listed) and I have always liked Chichester. I think Stafford is also appealing. As can be seen here in your pics good use of glass and brickwork, and sometimes high quality woodwork. Manchester Oxford Road another good example in my mind.

 

[Benters]

Stafford station has a nice clean look to it, far better than the dingy Victorian station it replaced on the same site.

 

[ac6000cw]

A few years ago I was told by someone who used to use it regularly in the 1950s and early 60s that the old MR/LNWR New Street wasn't much to write home about either, Snow Hill being a much nicer station.

The decision to demolish and completely rebuild New Street in the 60s was IMO the right one (for one thing the old station only had 8 through platforms), the mistake was burying it under a shopping centre.

It had also suffered in WW2, so I agree it needed a total rebuild. I think the 1960s-rebuild concourse area was actually OK, as was the shopping centre above it for the most part. The geography of the area and all the rail approach routes being in tunnels means the platforms are inevitably 'in a hole' so selling/leasing the 'air rights' above it for development was an obvious way of financing the (doubtless expensive) 1960s reconstruction.

 

[Helvellyn]

One of the justifications for rebuilding both Euston and New Street was that were effectively two stations on each site.

Euston was still based around a layout (albeit expanded/altered) that had been designed for arriving and departing platforms, separated by the Great Hall.

New Street was based around the original LNWR station (the single span removed after the war) and the latter multi-span extension built to house the Midland - the two parts separated by Queen's Drive that had been the original Southern boundary but that ended up running through the middle of the station.

I get why both needed rebuilding, especially with WCML electrification, but it's depressing how they were designed. When you see other stations from the time (or even airport terminals like the TWA one at Kennedy Airport) it's depressing this is the best they could come up with for two flagship stations.

 

[CarltonA]

Northampton Bridge Street was architecturally a nice building but was demolished, perhaps understandably as the line was closed to passengers. Wokingham was another good building lost in 1973 and replaced with some nasty prefab buildings however an interesting footbridge remains (grade II listed).

 

[Dr Hoo]

One of the justifications for rebuilding both Euston and New Street was that were effectively two stations on each site.

Euston was still based around a layout (albeit expanded/altered) that had been designed for arriving and departing platforms, separated by the Great Hall.

New Street was based around the original LNWR station (the single span removed after the war) and the latter multi-span extension built to house the Midland - the two parts separated by Queen's Drive that had been the original Southern boundary but that ended up running through the middle of the station.

I get why both needed rebuilding, especially with WCML electrification, but it's depressing how they were designed. When you see other stations from the time (or even airport terminals like the TWA one at Kennedy Airport) it's depressing this is the best they could come up with for two flagship stations.

Did Kennedy Airport have to try and fit round historic structures from 130 years earlier, or deal with runways that were effectively 'underground' in the middle of a city centre though?

I always thought that the 1960s Euston was rather nice, before it got far, far more crowded and altered; especially as it was basically 'all electric' and at ground level. New Street was a much tougher compromise, being sub-surface and still predominantly diesel. Both Coventry and Stafford, for example, were far less hemmed in.

 

[WAB]

Yes, didn't BR build a number of these office blocks in the general period concerned, not the greatest architecture from the period concerned. Wasn't there one outside Sheffield station too.

Who worked in them? Presumably they were for various staff carrying out duties that are no longer required, due to changing nature of the railway business as well as technological change in the tasks concerned. Where had such jobs been located before? - presumably spread about various old buildings in the railway estate in the towns concerned.

Vast armies of clerical grades. The administration of freight required a lot more hands when it was wagonload, and technical innovations like TOPS started to erode the need for such empires. For what it's worth, I suspect that the more modern office layouts and more staff being centralised in one place were an attempt to make the admin side of BR more efficient - I get the impression that the number of admin staff was spiralling out of control post-war which combined with outdated Big 4 practices and lax working enabled through the exigencies of war needed dealing with as part of the drive to make BR break even.

 

[WesternLancer]

Vast armies of clerical grades. The administration of freight required a lot more hands when it was wagonload, and technical innovations like TOPS started to erode the need for such empires. For what it's worth, I suspect that the more modern office layouts and more staff being centralised in one place were an attempt to make the admin side of BR more efficient - I get the impression that the number of admin staff was spiralling out of control post-war which combined with outdated Big 4 practices and lax working enabled through the exigencies of war needed dealing with as part of the drive to make BR break even.

Thanks for those insights. Makes much sense. And logic would suggest that bringing people together in modern fit for purpose offices would be an improvement, both in working environment and efficiency.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thanks for those insights. Makes much sense. And logic would suggest that bringing people together in modern fit for purpose offices would be an improvement, both in working environment and efficiency.

I've heard that the Scottish Region centralised typing pool in the newly-built Buchanan House on the site of the demolished Buchanan Street Station was the largest in Scotland. It had 'pop inspired' murals on the walls to keep the (predominantly female) staff cohort happy.

 

[Davester50]

I agree with your point here - in the earlier modernisation period I think there were some good quality re-builds with a welcome architectural and build quality that was generally good. Examples that come to mind include Coventry (now listed) and I have always liked Chichester. I think Stafford is also appealing. As can be seen here in your pics good use of glass and brickwork, and sometimes high quality woodwork. Manchester Oxford Road another good example in my mind.

Glad it's not just me. There's a lot of that era's buildings, and not just railway, that have been lost sadly.

I always thought that the 1960s Euston was rather nice, before it got far, far more crowded and altered; especially as it was basically 'all electric' and at ground level.

The pictures of when new are impressive. Clean, modern, and a glimpse of the then era's bright idea of the future.
It's the subsequent alterations and overcrowding that's the problem. Those Tie-Rack wigwams in the 80s were never a good idea, let alone the daft advert board of today.

 

[Ken H]

Glad it's not just me. There's a lot of that era's buildings, and not just railway, that have been lost sadly.



The pictures of when new are impressive. Clean, modern, and a glimpse of the then era's bright idea of the future.
It's the subsequent alterations and overcrowding that's the problem. Those Tie-Rack wigwams in the 80s were never a good idea, let alone the daft advert board of today.

They could have left the portico. Or even moved it a little south. But demolishing Euston did make the country sit up and actually consider the rich heritage of our railway buildings.

 

[Helvellyn]

Did Kennedy Airport have to try and fit round historic structures from 130 years earlier, or deal with runways that were effectively 'underground' in the middle of a city centre though?

I always thought that the 1960s Euston was rather nice, before it got far, far more crowded and altered; especially as it was basically 'all electric' and at ground level. New Street was a much tougher compromise, being sub-surface and still predominantly diesel. Both Coventry and Stafford, for example, were far less hemmed in.

No, but there were many pretty drab terminals built despite few restraints (and they probably suffered more from increases in air travel, security, etc., that made the structure redundant).

Euston concourse doesn't look too bad in the 1960s - maybe if it had been built twice as big, with bigger windows to let more light in it would have been better still. What didn't help is the way the square in front was redeveloped with tower blockings and buildings all around. It just feels a mess today (ignoring the HS2 demolitions) with its food huts and random seating.

I also agree New Street was hemmed in, but if they hadn't stuck a shopping centre on top they could have done something much better with it. The original part had had a giant overall rood, whilst the newer Midland side also had overall roofs as well. Is a giant concrete deck the best they could really do, especially as the platform ends and headng into the tunnels still had daylight - if you were going to sell air rights and build over the tracks that surely would have been the places to do it!

 

[ChrisC]

Northampton Bridge Street was architecturally a nice building but was demolished, perhaps understandably as the line was closed to passengers.

If considering stations which were demolished because the line was closed, a huge one to list would be Nottingham Victoria. I only vaguely remember it from when I was a very small child going on holiday with my parents to Mablethorpe. From what I remember, and from photographs it was a very large impressive station.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Building a shopping centre on top of half of London Victoria station - I'm not sure what was there before, but I hope it wasn't more of lovely glass trainshed...

I'm afraid it was.....

 

[WesternLancer]

I'm afraid it was..... View attachment 153752View attachment 153751

Thanks for those pics which bring back a few memories. Yes, it was a loss. I recall that part (the LBSCR side) had got a bit on the shabby side in later years, but nothing that could not have been suitably renovated.

Thinking of the LBSCR and another architectural loss - did the train shed from London Bridge ever actually get re-erected elsewhere? I see it was supposed to get re-built at Aberystwyth.

 

[The exile]

Stafford station has a nice clean look to it, far better than the dingy Victorian station it replaced on the same site.

Banbury as well. No idea what it replaced.

 

[WesternLancer]

Banbury as well. No idea what it replaced.

Indeed, another pleasant one from the era

I found a site with some helpful pics of it over the years, both before the rebuilding and during reconstruction

Banbury station - Steve Banks

Railway historical research (all companies) especially workings on the LNER and BR. Railway modelling of coaches and carriages on a professional basis.

www.steve-banks.org

 

[lakeland844]

Yes, didn't BR build a number of these office blocks in the general period concerned, not the greatest architecture from the period concerned. Wasn't there one outside Sheffield station too.

Who worked in them? Presumably they were for various staff carrying out duties that are no longer required, due to changing nature of the railway business as well as technological change in the tasks concerned. Where had such jobs been located before? - presumably spread about various old buildings in the railway estate in the towns concerned.

The building at Sheffield was a hideous concrete and glass monstrosity built in late sixties/early seventies - 12 floors of railway staff and the Transport Police offices - known as Sheaf House, it was happily demolished a few years ago now - no idea where the staff work from now

 

[WAB]

The building at Sheffield was a hideous concrete and glass monstrosity built in late sixties/early seventies - 12 floors of railway staff and the Transport Police offices - known as Sheaf House, it was happily demolished a few years ago now - no idea where the staff work from now

The organisational structure of the railway has completely changed since Sheaf House was properly in use by BR; the functions within are now carried out by Milton Keynes (NR ops/shared services), Derby/York ROCs (control), passenger train management and administration from Hudson House in Derby (EMR), Manchester (TPE) and Leeds/York (Northern), freight management at the various FOC offices nationally, and regional NR activities probably from York and Derby. What was once a division has been obliterated several times over since the 70s by multiple reorganisations.

 

[Andrew1395]

For me it had to be the closure of Blackpool Central station and retention of Blackpool North. A terrible decision and loss of a fine station. A second would be the closure if the new Woodhead tunnel. Retaining the route as a diesel haulage freight railway utilise the new tunnel would today have helped cross pennine strategies.

 

[Wolfie]

For me it had to be the closure of Blackpool Central station and retention of Blackpool North. A terrible decision and loss of a fine station. A second would be the closure if the new Woodhead tunnel. Retaining the route as a diesel haulage freight railway utilise the new tunnel would today have helped cross pennine strategies.

The former was mainly at the instigation of the local authority. Frankly Central would have been massive overkill for current demand let alone that at the time. Secondly retaining that tunnel at that time was economically disastrous. With hindsight views change....

 

[Ken H]

The former was mainly at the instigation of the local authority. Frankly Central would have been massive overkill for current demand let alone that at the time. Secondly retaining that tunnel at that time was economically disastrous. With hindsight views change....

Closure of the Lancaster Green Ayre - Morecambe route was the same. The council wanted the Lune bridge for a road. Still there. What was it about that corner of the NW?

 

[midland1]

Whilst everyone slams BR for the demolition of the old LNWR Euston Station they were nearly beaten to it... by the LMS! Seems there were plans to build something similar to what was done at Leeds Wellington Station but on a much larger scale. Interesting to contemplate that we may have lost the old station sooner but would BR then have needed to redevelop a single large Art Deco station in the 1960s?

In July 1938 Sir Josiah Stamp threw a switch in the Great Hall which set of a charge in the Caldon Low quarries to release limestone for the rebuilding, but WW2 stopped the work.

 

[edwin_m]

The organisational structure of the railway has completely changed since Sheaf House was properly in use by BR; the functions within are now carried out by Milton Keynes (NR ops/shared services), Derby/York ROCs (control), passenger train management and administration from Hudson House in Derby (EMR), Manchester (TPE) and Leeds/York (Northern), freight management at the various FOC offices nationally, and regional NR activities probably from York and Derby. What was once a division has been obliterated several times over since the 70s by multiple reorganisations.

When first created during privatisation, the Porterbrook leasing company was based in Sheaf House. The Porter Brook is the river that meets the Sheaf somewhere under Sheffield station. Not long afterwards they moved to Derby.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I also agree New Street was hemmed in, but if they hadn't stuck a shopping centre on top they could have done something much better with it. The original part had had a giant overall rood, whilst the newer Midland side also had overall roofs as well. Is a giant concrete deck the best they could really do, especially as the platform ends and headng into the tunnels still had daylight - if you were going to sell air rights and build over the tracks that surely would have been the places to do it!

I realise that this thread is about the 'BR era' rather than 'BR's mistakes' or whatever.

New Street was never going to rebuilt with a big glass roof or similar. Following the very heavy damage to the city centre from WW2 bombing there were grand civic plans to re-configure the area. I've seen architects' and planners' renderings that all showed New Street covered over by what were regarded as 'skyscrapers' at the time - basically ending what was seen as the 'severance' of the central area after original opening in the 1850s. The single shared footbridge and public right of way with stepped access at both ends was hopeless inadequate.

This was nothing to do with the Modernisation Plan, Reshaping Report, future of Snow Hill or whatever.

 

[Mike Machin]

The demolition of the main station building with its lovely clock tower at Southampton Central, leaving a major city with meagre cramped and claustrophobic station facilities cowering beneath the squat brutalist architecture of the Overline House office development.

 

[Andrew1395]

The former was mainly at the instigation of the local authority. Frankly Central would have been massive overkill for current demand let alone that at the time. Secondly retaining that tunnel at that time was economically disastrous. With hindsight views change....

Yes it’s true the council wanted to turn the station and approach into a road and car park. I still think the better option was the one the good Doctor proposed.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes it’s true the council wanted to turn the station and approach into a road and car park. I still think the better option was the one the good Doctor proposed.

Personally, given that l hate Blackpool North with a passion, l don't disagree albeit l still think that it might have been overkill for the requirement.

 

[Recessio]

The demolition of the original Highbury and Islington after WW2. Not sure if that was BR or London Transport. Now we're stuck with a miserable cramped station.