Worst lines for cancellations

[crispy1978]

I was talking to a friend last night who recently moved back from the Hull area after working down there. He was telling me about the Barton-Cleethorpes line and it's cancellations, saying he's never known a line as bad for it.

I was looking on RTT last night, and I was amazed:

There seems to be 18 services per day Mon-Fri, and no less than 24 of the 90 services last week were cancelled - mainly due to train crew issues from what I can see.

Why is this, and does anyone know of a worse line?

 

[bradders1983]

Far North Line will be a contender I would guess, especially in the winter. On the day I wanted to get from Wick to Brora last November I ended up getting bustituted.

 

[SeanG]

Sudbury - Marks Tey at the moment

 

[Deepgreen]

Very good timing, as my local line (Reading to Redhill) has had a string of cancellations today resulting in a gap in service at Betchworth (my local station) from 0713 to 1313!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I was talking to a friend last night who recently moved back from the Hull area after working down there. He was telling me about the Barton-Cleethorpes line and it's cancellations, saying he's never known a line as bad for it.

I was looking on RTT last night, and I was amazed:

There seems to be 18 services per day Mon-Fri, and no less than 24 of the 90 services last week were cancelled - mainly due to train crew issues from what I can see.

Why is this, and does anyone know of a worse line?

I once asked about this to Northern's twitter team and they said it was due to staff taking unused holiday time, illness and mandatory training - just a terrible coincidence

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The Barton Line cancellations are Transpennine's fault, not Northerns.
First TPE have a driver shortage and were relying on drivers working rest days to fill the shortage, the drivers also work the Barton service and many are now refusing to work on rest days. Alot of Cleethorpes TPE sevices get cancelled, but the Barton service, being Northern, is the one that get's most of the problems shifted onto it to keep more TPE trains running.

I recall hearing that cancellations are common in Mid-Wales lines from Shrewsbury. Although that was a year ago.

 

[crispy1978]

Is the Barton Line just going through a bad phase, or has a 27% cancellation rate been commonplace for a while?

 

[PHILIPE]

The Barton Line cancellations are Transpennine's fault, not Northerns.
First TPE have a driver shortage and were relying on drivers working rest days to fill the shortage, the drivers also work the Barton service and many are now refusing to work on rest days. Alot of Cleethorpes TPE sevices get cancelled, but the Barton service, being Northern, is the one that get's most of the problems shifted onto it to keep more TPE trains running.

I recall hearing that cancellations are common in Mid-Wales lines from Shrewsbury. Although that was a year ago.

Didn't notice cancellations on the Mid Wales Line about a year ago.

 

[grumblingalong]

AGA haven't run ANY Marks Tey - Sudbury or Ipswich - Felixstowe services for 5 days now due to mismanagement of wheel flat issues.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Any Southern service west of Havant is liable to get cancelled as soon as trouble hits further up the line.

 

[tsr]

Any Southern service west of Havant is liable to get cancelled as soon as trouble hits further up the line.

...and for clarification, that does include trouble up the line in SWT territory as well

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Marston Vale and Borderlands seem to suffer a fair bit, due to little or no slack in the local fleet (both) and tight turnarounds at each end (Borderlands).

 

[DarloRich]

Surely, unless we have access to accurate statistics, will assume our local line suffers the most cancellations or will make subjective judgments based on an incomplete assessment of public sources such as NRES or Twitter

Marston Vale and Borderlands seem to suffer a fair bit, due to little or no slack in the local fleet (both) and tight turnarounds at each end (Borderlands).

The Vale has been fine, at least until recently. The current issues are caused by staff shortgages

 

[PHILIPE]

AGA haven't run ANY Marks Tey - Sudbury or Ipswich - Felixstowe services for 5 days now due to mismanagement of wheel flat issues.

Too many DMUs out of the small fleet O/O/S due Wheel flats. How do you call it mismanagement ?

 

[Carlisle]

Too many DMUs out of the small fleet O/O/S due Wheel flats. How do you call it mismanagement ?

Despite what I'm sure are the industry's top bosses best intentions, penalties for TOCs continuously cancelling certain services don't appear to have been severe enough over time to focus their minds on finding solutions to many of these age old and often not especially high tech problems raised in this thread

 

[crispy1978]

Are statistics produced and available for individual lines?

 

[grumblingalong]

Too many DMUs out of the small fleet O/O/S due Wheel flats. How do you call it mismanagement ?

I'd say the failure to provide services of any sort is immediately mismanagement, how was the DMU shortage permitted to get so severe? How is it anything but mismanagement?

 

[krus_aragon]

I recall hearing that cancellations are common in Mid-Wales lines from Shrewsbury. Although that was a year ago.

It's a few years ago now, but when services from the Cambrian and Shrewsbury terminated at Birmingham New Street, they had a tight turnaround. If an incoming service was late (which, with the single-track Cambrian, can happen often) it would generally be turned at Wolverhampton to get it returning on time, much to the frustratioon of passengers in Birmingham. Services now run through to International and have nearly an hour's layover, which has solved this issue, at the cost of an extra diagram.

Or did you have something else in mind?

 

[Taunton]

In London the Overground/North London Line seems to get more than it's fair share of service loss. On the Underground itself, the clear leader has to be the Bakerloo Line north of Queens Park. There have been innumerable issues and excuses for years that cause them to terminate everything from the centre there.

 

[SeanG]

It's a few years ago now, but when services from the Cambrian and Shrewsbury terminated at Birmingham New Street, they had a tight turnaround. If an incoming service was late (which, with the single-track Cambrian, can happen often) it would generally be turned at Wolverhampton to get it returning on time, much to the frustratioon of passengers in Birmingham. Services now run through to International and have nearly an hour's layover, which has solved this issue, at the cost of an extra diagram.

Or did you have something else in mind?

Surely they knew this was going to happen in good time so passengers for Wales could be advised to catch a connecting service to Wolverhampton

 

[headshot119]

Surely they knew this was going to happen in good time so passengers for Wales could be advised to catch a connecting service to Wolverhampton

A lot of the time it would be a last minute decision.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'd say the failure to provide services of any sort is immediately mismanagement, how was the DMU shortage permitted to get so severe? How is it anything but mismanagement?

How do you prevent the wheel flats at this time of the year. You can't get all the sets on the wheel lathe at the same time. Still don't make yourself clear how this is mismanagement.

There is already a thread on AGA DMUs, link here.

www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123069

 

[Philip Phlopp]

How do you prevent the wheel flats at this time of the year. You can't get all the sets on the wheel lathe at the same time. Still don't make yourself clear how this is mismanagement.

Clown Point not having a proper wheel lathe ?

Additional bogies for the Turbostar units not being leased in from one of the ROSCOs ?

Not shouting at Network Rail's managers 24/7/365 to get teams out with chainsaws, to deal with some of the leaves before they fall, and perhaps coughing up a bit of cash to help deal with the issue.

 

[PeterY]

The Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey is very unreliable at the moment. London Midlands excuse this morning (16th Nov) leaves on the line.

 

[hassaanhc]

In London the Overground/North London Line seems to get more than it's fair share of service loss. On the Underground itself, the clear leader has to be the Bakerloo Line north of Queens Park. There have been innumerable issues and excuses for years that cause them to terminate everything from the centre there.

North of Queens Park has behaved in recent months. It is Edgware Road, rest of the subsurface, and the Piccadilly Line that are more prone to issues recently

 

[Dave1987]

AGA haven't run ANY Marks Tey - Sudbury or Ipswich - Felixstowe services for 5 days now due to mismanagement of wheel flat issues.

The sprinters have the worst WSP protection of virtually any train around today. And considering the very remote areas they serve in the East it is hardly "mismanagement".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd say the failure to provide services of any sort is immediately mismanagement, how was the DMU shortage permitted to get so severe? How is it anything but mismanagement?

If you can cure the problem with the Sprinters getting wheel flats easily due to poor WSP protection and the rural line they operate one I'm sure they will be all ears!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Clown Point not having a proper wheel lathe ?

I'm fairly certain that Ilford's wheel lathe is one of very few in the country. Considering the massive stack of various trains from various TOC's and FOC's that's stacked up outside that wheel lathe all the time.

 

[grumblingalong]

The sprinters have the worst WSP protection of virtually any train around today. And considering the very remote areas they serve in the East it is hardly "mismanagement".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If you can cure the problem with the Sprinters getting wheel flats easily due to poor WSP protection and the rural line they operate one I'm sure they will be all ears!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I'm fairly certain that Ilford's wheel lathe is one of very few in the country. Considering the massive stack of various trains from various TOC's and FOC's that's stacked up outside that wheel lathe all the time.

Fair points, but the real crux of the AGA issue is failing to sort non leaf fall associated faults, that's what is causing the issues. Working some of the rural routes myself the adhesion has been terrible absolutely awful, but there should be enough stock held to cover the losses.

 

[PHILIPE]

Fair points, but the real crux of the AGA issue is failing to sort non leaf fall associated faults, that's what is causing the issues. Working some of the rural routes myself the adhesion has been terrible absolutely awful, but there should be enough stock held to cover the losses.

Another question for you to answer - Where is this stock coming from ?

 

[Silverlinky]

The Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey is very unreliable at the moment. London Midlands excuse this morning (16th Nov) leaves on the line.

Poor adhesion, line not treated by the RHTT due to a line posession

 

[grumblingalong]

Another question for you to answer - Where is this stock coming from ?

The ones that are sat broken in Clown Point, all 9 of them.