What's wrong with them?
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Worst UK train?
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700's didn't replace 465s. They are still in service, but it's possible the 707s will replace some of them.
brad465
Established Member
When the following situation is an issue 800/802s, 390s and any other stock whose blinds are built into the windows are bad: there have been instances in the past of going on these trains where someone in a neighbouring row has pulled them down, but I almost always want to look out of the window so want them up; really old fashioned curtain blinds would be better, even if the aesthetic couldn't be made perfect.
Journeyman
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Very much so. I like the warm tones inside Pendolinos, they feel much more relaxed than, say, the GWR HST refurb. Not only horrifically bright, but a horrible white tone too.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
144012 needs a giant boot from the sky to squish it Monty Python style, a fitting end to a comedic existence. Either that or plonk it in the path of a runaway Peak like a nuclear flask.
At least the Pacers of all types don't take much to dispose of, being so flimsy.
Eccles1983
On Moderation
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Eh?
The requirement for additional running brake tests in snow is for all disc braked units. It's not specific to 158's.
The brakes are fine, especially at 80mph+ It seems that it's a lot of user error going on instead of the unit being poor.
142/153/150's are all far worse units.
ashkeba
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XC's aren't and GA's weren't, so I fear Northern must have some right donkeys!
Class465pacer
Member
When Thameslink was extended to Rainham they replaced 465s that were operating Charing Cross - Gillingham
Really disagree with that...
However Voyagers ... awfull, cramped things..had the misfortune of a Darlington to Exeter, and Back. And Newtown Abbot to Bristol and back squashed in like Sardines.
Class 185.... boooring!.
I see, forgot about that. Thanks for the clarification!
Richard Scott
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In terms of suitability for purpose it has to be a voyager. Too little room, poor seats (even my mother moans about them and she doesn't care what train turns up), smelly toilets and that's before the horrendous fuel consumption is taken into account and the fact they run so far under wires. Person who authorised these really didn't think, remove 86s and replace with diesel under wires, what a way to go.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
Voyagers,Pendolinos and IETs.
They have their faults but they are certainly not the worst, Pendolinos have massively improved the service on the WCML even if they have issues with the smell (they could also do with a refurb but to be fair it has been ~20 years for them apart from 4), Voyagers (along with a new timetable) have much improved XC from a service which occasionally runs with some people on it to a busy fairly frequent service and IETs have allowed the use of existing wires with only the problem with too many 5 cars for GWR and bad interiors with hard seats and no buffet for GWR but this just makes it a badly configured train, the platform itself is good.
HSTs also have their faults, most dump sewage on the tracks till a couple years ago, they also ran diesel under wires for large parts of a lot of routes. Lots of people also find the ic70 seat uncomfortable.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
In terms of actual quality, Pacers are arguably the worst in the UK.
In terms of suitability as actually used, IET.
They are better than Pacers, and would make acceptable local trains. But 5 car DMUs without catering for inter city routes ? appalling.
Worst seats of any so called intercity trains.
Often too short.
Unreliable toilets, unreliable reservations, inadequate space for holiday luggage and cycles, surfboards prohibited.
Acceptable for local or suburban routes, but inter city, no way.
I and many others criticised the absence of buffets on the GWR units, and IET advocates made all sorts of grand promises as to what a wonderful alternative the trolley would be. After some years, no trolley, trolley in other portion of the train, trolley static, hiding in first class, remains the norm.
And in the unlikely event that they ever provide a proper trolley service, it still feels like a suburban DMU and not a proper inter city train. Prolonged delays still result from problems when coupling two units together.
Voyagers deserve an honourable mention, or perhaps the "second worst" prize.
In terms of suitability as actually used, IET.
They are better than Pacers, and would make acceptable local trains. But 5 car DMUs without catering for inter city routes ? appalling.
Worst seats of any so called intercity trains.
Often too short.
Unreliable toilets, unreliable reservations, inadequate space for holiday luggage and cycles, surfboards prohibited.
Acceptable for local or suburban routes, but inter city, no way.
I and many others criticised the absence of buffets on the GWR units, and IET advocates made all sorts of grand promises as to what a wonderful alternative the trolley would be. After some years, no trolley, trolley in other portion of the train, trolley static, hiding in first class, remains the norm.
And in the unlikely event that they ever provide a proper trolley service, it still feels like a suburban DMU and not a proper inter city train. Prolonged delays still result from problems when coupling two units together.
Voyagers deserve an honourable mention, or perhaps the "second worst" prize.
Class465pacer
Member
For intercity HSTs. Diesel only stock running under overhead wires that accelerates slower than a snail should be a thing of the past when modern fast bi mode and electric trains exist. I’d much rather go on a IC225 Pendolino or Javelin/8xx
alansheppard77
Member
142/150/313/508
Err, not sure that you've thought this through!
Up to about 60mph, a full-size HST can out-accelerate a 91. The shortened ones are very quick off the mark due to a high power/weight ratio.
Those remaining in service are running either entirely or a large part of their routes on lines which don't have OHL.
If you don't like them then fair enough, but none of the reasons you actually give hold much water.
The Northern 170s came from Scotrail and have been refurbished to a good standard.
Anonymous10
Established Member
GA refurbished just before hand over to tfw and they get a second refurb before redeployment from maesteg to the west Wales branches and heart of Wales so not to bad now
158747
Member
Definitely not a myth! I think the 158s are generally good units but the air conditioning is definitely their Achilles heel.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is indeed some ex-BR stock with aircon designed for CFCs that just doesn't work. It's running without a fault (so isn't broken in that sense), but it simply isn't effective enough with non-CFC refrigerants. It all needs replacing then there wouldn't be a problem - aircon is generally reliable on newer stock. The Chiltern system can presumably be fitted to all 16x, and I'm sure someone can design one for the 158. It works OK on pretty much everything else.
Trains are uncomfortable now because of fire regs. Putting stuff on trains that gives off toxic fumes when burning is a big no-no now.
so why are they uncomfortable?
Cheap? vandal resistance?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That one. Yes, they are done on the cheap. The Fainsa Sophia, for instance, is a cheap regional seat and is not sold for long-distance use.
Amongst other things yes. Of course there's also durability, maintenance issues, impact on users health, payload, - and most important of all, 'uncomfortable' is a matter of personal opinion, and one persons comfortable seat is not gauranteed to be true for all passengers.
Seats must first of all be fit for purpose!
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