Wortley Curve West Yorkshire

[61653 HTAFC]

Who’s to say that (especially without HS2) an ECML service from Leeds couldn’t be filled with calls at Leeds and Doncaster only, leaving no capacity for passengers for Wakefield, or connecting for Bradford? In this case, a separate train starting from Bradford and calling at New Pudsey, Wakefield Westgate and perhaps another station such as Outwood, Pontefract Baghill or Knottingley wouldn’t load well by Doncaster?

I'm intrigued by the route such a service would take if it's also using the Wortley curve... there's some mighty straws being clutched at in this thread. People grumble about how slow the Grand Central services are from Bradford, so I'm sure a magical mystery tour around the Five Towns would be a huge success.

Funny how the Penistone line upgrade thread, which was based on actual levelling-up/Network North/whatever they're calling it this week funding, got shunted off to Speculative Discussion within hours... and this thread is still in the main infrastructure section when all that's been announced is the selling off of disused land.

 

[Neptune]

I'm intrigued by the route such a service would take if it's also using the Wortley curve... there's some mighty straws being clutched at in this thread. People grumble about how slow the Grand Central services are from Bradford, so I'm sure a magical mystery tour around the Five Towns would be a huge success.

Funny how the Penistone line upgrade thread, which was based on actual levelling-up/Network North/whatever they're calling it this week funding, got shunted off to Speculative Discussion within hours... and this thread is still in the main infrastructure section when all that's been announced is the selling off of disused land.

And a stretch of land at that, that absolutely nobody gave two hoots about (and most likely didn’t even know existed) until it was put up for sale. Then suddenly every conceivable ridiculous scheme to reopen it gets peddled out, for,what I can see, the only real reason being is that it used to be there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think it is a little brave suggesting that there wont ever be enough traffic to justify not going into Leeds.

It really isn’t. ECML paths are limited enough already, and there is no conceivable situation where it makes sense to use one of these paths to within a mile of Leeds station, only to turn left for Bradford and Halifax.

Particularly if Neville Hill-Hambleton ever gets electrified, and trains from Bradford, Skipton, and Harrogate can use this route to avoid reversing in Leeds (as some of the morning HSTs used to).

 

[YorksLad12]

*IF* we were gonna do it as a forum collective of some kind then I agree, absolutely we wouldn't do it in our own names - would have to do as some kind of limited liability thing.

No one else appears to be drunk enough to join though (and I have to sober up from tomorrow as will be back at work) so I think it isn't happening - not long left to incorporate everything etc...

I was the one who suggested a forum whip-round in the other thread mentioned above. You could always set up a Limited Liability Partnership, but the knotweed is putting me off...

 

[Bevan Price]

The Wortley curve saw little use by passenger services until the line via Morley Top was closed. The only possibly sensible use might be for a Kings Cross - Leeds & Bradford/Halifax service - 5 coaches to each destination, splitting/combining at Wakefield Westgate.

 

[D6130]

I'm intrigued by the route such a service would take if it's also using the Wortley curve... there's some mighty straws being clutched at in this thread. People grumble about how slow the Grand Central services are from Bradford, so I'm sure a magical mystery tour around the Five Towns would be a huge success.

I suspect that @507020 meant Pontefract Monkhill rather than Baghill!

 

[Halifaxlad]

As we know Leeds is such a massive traffic draw, effort should be taken to encourage non-Leeds passengers not to change at Leeds, by providing new Leeds-avoiding trains, as has been done recently with the reinstatement of through running between Castleford and York, so as not to contribute to overcrowding either on trains to Leeds, or at Leeds station itself and afford themselves a more comfortable journey.

Amen to that!

As for the Wortley Curve it may be worth me mentioning that it doesn't appear to feature in WYCA's rail strategy!

What does feature however on page 65 is:

• Reinstating services on a branch line between Menston and Otley, running services through to Leeds and/or Bradford;
• Reinstating the Crigglestone Chord to link the HuddersfieldWakefield line to the Wakefield-Barnsley-Sheffield line
• Reinstating the Spen Valley route south of Bradford,
• Reinstating the line between Penistone and Deepcar
• Introducing a regular passenger shuttle on the existing heritage railway line from Keighley to Oxenhope

The 'Rail Strategy' can be found here:
https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/24807/widgets/70236/documents/42633

I do suspect the this idea of reinstating the Wortley curve has been dropped because reinstating the Spen Valley would enable the same thing and more, although obviously for a lot more but the Wortley Curve wouldn't reinstate services to Cleckheaton would it ?. Anyway these are simply "potential schemes that merit more detailed examination" !

 

[InkyScrolls]

Amen to that!

As for the Wortley Curve it may be worth me mentioning that it doesn't appear to feature in WYCA's rail strategy!

What does feature however on page 65 is:

• Reinstating services on a branch line between Menston and Otley, running services through to Leeds and/or Bradford;
• Reinstating the Crigglestone Chord to link the HuddersfieldWakefield line to the Wakefield-Barnsley-Sheffield line
• Reinstating the Spen Valley route south of Bradford,
• Reinstating the line between Penistone and Deepcar
• Introducing a regular passenger shuttle on the existing heritage railway line from Keighley to Oxenhope

The 'Rail Strategy' can be found here:
https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/24807/widgets/70236/documents/42633

I do suspect the this idea of reinstating the Wortley curve has been dropped because reinstating the Spen Valley would enable the same thing and more, although obviously for a lot more but the Wortley Curve wouldn't reinstate services to Cleckheaton would it ?. Anyway these are simply "potential schemes that merit more detailed examination" !

These two are complete bovine fæcal matter with zero chance of either happening or even being necessary, as has been covered umpteen times before! I don't know enough about the others to comment.

 

[Halifaxlad]

These two are complete bovine fæcal matter with zero chance of either happening or even being necessary, as has been covered umpteen times before! I don't know enough about the others to comment.

Which two ?

My comment was only in relation to which routes WYCA have outlined for further investigation it in no-way reflects my opinion.

Anyway Bradford to Huddersfield should be much improved under Network North so presumably it will deliver an alternative way for potential direct services between Bradford and Wakefield/London via Wakefield Kirkgate and the Calder Valley.

 

[yoyothehobo]

The menston/otley one and the keighley worth valley railway commuter services (are bolded) in inky scrolls post so i assume those 2.

 

[D6130]

The menston/otley one and the keighley worth valley railway commuter services (are bolded) in inky scrolls post so i assume those 2.

Neither of those are ever likely to happen. The Menston to Otley line has been built-over or road-widened in too many places and there are good bus connections between the two. The best that is likely to happen is that the station is renamed 'Menston for Otley' or something similar. The aspiration for a commuter service on the KWVR has been done to death on other threads and is also very unlikely to happen, whatever the leader of Bradford Council may say. Anyway, we're getting rather off-topic now.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Neither of those are ever likely to happen. The Menston to Otley line has been built-over or road-widened in too many places and there are good bus connections between the two. The best that is likely to happen is that the station is renamed 'Menston for Otley' or something similar. The aspiration for a commuter service on the KWVR has been done to death on other threads and is also very unlikely to happen, whatever the leader of Bradford Council may say. Anyway, we're getting rather off-topic now.

Menston to Otley is much more likely than the Wortley curve and is dooable. This idea that Menston is adquate because it has a bus to it is frankly a joke!

 

[D6130]

This idea that Menston is adquate because it has a bus to it is frankly a joke!

It also has quite a large car park which is well-used by Otley commuters.

 

[Halifaxlad]

It also has quite a large car park which is well-used by Otley commuters.

and traffic in Otley is still horrondeous!

 

[Neptune]

and traffic in Otley is still horrondeous!

Nowhere near as bad as Shipley’s traffic which has one of the most frequent train services in West Yorkshire.

If Otley didn’t have a bypass it would be 10 times worse.

 

[JKF]

Surely the Wortley curve would allow the future Leeds metro ‘old Pudsey’ branch that runs on the abandoned half of the four track formation from Bramley to get onto Holbeck Viaduct by means of a convoluted concrete flyover at the southern end?

*puts crayons back in drawer*

 

[deltic08]

Neither of those are ever likely to happen. The Menston to Otley line has been built-over or road-widened in too many places and there are good bus connections between the two. The best that is likely to happen is that the station is renamed 'Menston for Otley' or something similar. The aspiration for a commuter service on the KWVR has been done to death on other threads and is also very unlikely to happen, whatever the leader of Bradford Council may say. Anyway, we're getting rather off-topic now.

Pray tell me where the trackbed between Menston and the Otley by-pass has been built on?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Nowhere near as bad as Shipley’s traffic which has one of the most frequent train services in West Yorkshire.

If Otley didn’t have a bypass it would be 10 times worse.

I think the fact that Otley has a bypass says a lot!

 

[D6130]

Pray tell me where the trackbed between Menston and the Otley by-pass has been built on?

Was thinking of the by-pass. The rest is currently a cycle track. Still O/T for Wortley Curve though!

 

[Neptune]

I think the fact that Otley has a bypass says a lot!

Yes it does but that traffic, whether it is on the bypass or through the town centre is in the main through traffic so any new railway from Otley to Leeds and/or Bradford isn’t going to take much away from that.

What I’m saying is Shipley is much worse despite a decent through train service connecting more places at higher frequencies than Otley will and without the much needed bypass. In other words it is set up much better for the railway than Otley yet is in a much worse position trafficwise.

 

[deltic08]

Yes it does but that traffic, whether it is on the bypass or through the town centre is in the main through traffic so any new railway from Otley to Leeds and/or Bradford isn’t going to take much away from that.

What I’m saying is Shipley is much worse despite a decent through train service connecting more places at higher frequencies than Otley will and without the much needed bypass. In other words it is set up much better for the railway than Otley yet is in a much worse position trafficwise.

Reinstatement of Menston-Otley would reduce the traffic problems at little in Otley and the Otley Road into Leeds as well as relieving Menston car park that needs enlarging but can't because of being surrounded by buildings, and those in Otley who do not possess a car.
Probably not enough passengers for an Otley-Bradford service via Guiseley and Shipley but is possible by changing a Guiseley in Ilkley-Bradford trains.

 

[quantinghome]

Sold for £47,000

https://bidonline-propertyauctions....-details/4fa0f3d2-8cbe-4a10-a54c-b0d800f74f83

Buyer not stated, but I think that's standard.

 

[yoyothehobo]

right, so who on here bought it then....

 

[Egg Centric]

right, so who on here bought it then....

not me!

 

[YorksLad12]

Sold for £47,000

https://bidonline-propertyauctions....-details/4fa0f3d2-8cbe-4a10-a54c-b0d800f74f83

Buyer not stated, but I think that's standard.

I mean, that would have been 65p per registered user. We could have used it for forum meets...

 

[quantinghome]

I mean, that would have been 65p per registered user. We could have used it for forum meets...

Sounds like a plan. Apparently it's full of Japanese knotweed - but it is actually edible and has a nice lemony rhubarb taste. We could turn it all into jam and make our money back in no time.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Sounds like a plan. Apparently it's full of Japanese knotweed - but it is actually edible and has a nice lemony rhubarb taste. We could turn it all into jam and make our money back in no time.

Says a lot when the consensus on the forum is that the best use for an old railway alignment is to harvest the knotweed and sell Jam.

I guess its some form of preservation society

We do need a forumwide tier list to rate reopening potential of lines on, the "less useful than Jam" tier sounds special...

 

[Halifaxlad]

More news about Bradford getting a through station has got me thinking about this curve again!

Since a through station in Bradford would remove the need to reverse at the Interchange which would allow freight services to head through Halifax, would reinstating the curve be beneficial for freight services/releasing capacity East of Leeds by routing some freight services via Halifax, the curve and via Castleford ?

 

[dpemberton]

Unless the purchaser chooses to make themselves known, their identity will have to wait until the sale is registered with H M Land Registry, then it will be a matter of public record.

The two bridges were not part of the sale, nor was any right to pass over or under them.

 

[fishwomp]

More news about Bradford getting a through station has got me thinking about this curve again!

All I heard was Forster Sq getting a platform. Did I miss news?

Since a through station in Bradford would remove the need to reverse at the Interchange which would allow freight services to head through Halifax, would reinstating the curve be beneficial for freight services/releasing capacity East of Leeds by routing some freight services via Halifax, the curve and via Castleford ?

That'd be longer and more complex than via Brighouse and Wakefield Kirkgate and Normanton to Castleford and York. TP upgrade will ensure capacity on the 3 miles or so from Heaton Lodge to Thornhill LNW Jct, an grade separation whereas Wortley Curve hits Leeds - Wakefield W, and then ends up doing the Wakefield W - K slow single track chord? It'd play havoc with all that.