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Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway

Jorge Da Silva

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anyone seen this website not sure if anyone has posted it here yet or when it was launched:

Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway (WSMR) is a proposed new open access operator.

Our aim is to provide new connectivity between the mid/North Wales border, the Midlands and London. Following a consultation with the rail industry and stakeholders, the company will submit an application to the Office of Rail and Road.
WSMR is backed by a dedicated, forward-thinking and experienced team of rail industry leaders.

Passionate about the transformative power of rail, WSMR’s vision is to improve connectivity and redefine the way people perceive and experience rail travel.
 
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R

RailUK Forums

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It was loss-making

Indeed it was. I was present at a meeting where they presented the passenger figures since opening and the graph basically flatlined after the first year at a non profitable level. They pulled the plug after 3 years as there was no chance of it ever making a profit. As the presenter said, "people from Shropshire just don't want to go to London"
I really hope this can work as I live in Shrewsbury and it's a total pain in the arse changing at Brum, even worse coming back as they frequently hold the right time Avanti from Euston outside New St and let the Salop train go.
I always use Crewe now but I still have the "will they/won't they" connection kerfuffle.
 

robspaceman

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Indeed it was. I was present at a meeting where they presented the passenger figures since opening and the graph basically flatlined after the first year at a non profitable level. They pulled the plug after 3 years as there was no chance of it ever making a profit. As the presenter said, "people from Shropshire just don't want to go to London"
I really hope this can work as I live in Shrewsbury and it's a total pain in the arse changing at Brum, even worse coming back as they frequently hold the right time Avanti from Euston outside New St and let the Salop train go.
I always use Crewe now but I still have the "will they/won't they" connection kerfuffle.
Perhaps more accurately the presenter should have said "people from Shropshire just don't want to go to London on a train that, albeit direct, takes at least an hour longer than changing at Crewe / Brum.

If this new incarnation of WSMR can solve the journey time issue - and gain some extra revenue from the West Midlands along the way - it could succeed.
 

Western 52

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Now if this new service could start back at Birkenhead and run through to Paddington, it could be a useful route for some people.....
 

The Planner

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Perhaps more accurately the presenter should have said "people from Shropshire just don't want to go to London on a train that, albeit direct, takes at least an hour longer than changing at Crewe / Brum.

If this new incarnation of WSMR can solve the journey time issue - and gain some extra revenue from the West Midlands along the way - it could succeed.
Not if its going via Nuneaton, Sutton Park and Walsall it won't.

Now if this new service could start back at Birkenhead and run through to Paddington, it could be a useful route for some people.....
This 2024, not 1963
 

Bald Rick

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and gain some extra revenue from the West Midlands along the way - it could succeed.

It will struggle to gsin revenue from the W Mids. That will either be direct abstraction from Avanti / WMT, or miniscule. The latter has been proven both by the previous operator and by work done looking into direct services between London and Walsall.
 

cheekybifta

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Colwyn Bay
Now if this new service could start back at Birkenhead and run through to Paddington, it could be a useful route for some people.....

Euston to Paddington is 15-20 mins. Wouldn't it be much faster to Paddington from Birkenhead going via Liverpool or Chester then Crewe to Euston than via Chester, Wrexham, Shrewsbury and West Midlands?
 

DJ_K666

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An application for the "Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway" (no connection to the former Arriva company) has appeared online for a service calling at Wrexham General, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Telford Central, Wolverhampton, Darlaston, Walsall, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton, Milton Keynes (set down southbound/pick up northbound) and London Euston with an end to end journey time of 3 hours and 5 minutes

Ian Walters is one of the people registered as a director of the company along with Andrew Helm and Tony Cahill.

However I can't seem to find much more of the application apart from the below link what was posted on another forum (nothing appears on the ORR site though)

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sale-of-access-rights/Consultations/Current Track Access Consultations/20.11.2023 - WSMR Company limited - Section 17 - Closes 20.12.2023/passenger-access-application-form-p_WSMR_S17_Final Draft FOR ISSUE.pdf



Smells a bit like an ORCATS raid on the WM to London market to me.

(Thread posted to generate discussion of the application, not to invite speculative postings)
It should stop at Rugby too.
 

The Planner

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Maybe. Or the route is a general 'via' with the actual stations served being worked out later. It's early days yet. Let's wait and see.
They will need to know the stations or their bid cannot be considered on abstraction.
 

jimm

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As the presenter said, "people from Shropshire just don't want to go to London"
Which really should not have come as a surprise, as that was the basis on which BR had reshaped the timetable when it replaced the dmus to/from Wolverhampton, plus a few extensions of London-Wolverhampton InterCity services to Shrewsbury. The switch to having 158s operating to/from Birmingham reflected the key traffic flow from Shropshire, and connected cross-platform at New Street with Euston services for anyone who did want to get to/from London. Plus keeping a diesel loco out at Wolverhampton for the Shrewsbury leg wasn't cheap.

Virgin found out much the same thing after reinstating some loco-hauled London-Shrewsbury services post-privatisation, as did WSMR in its turn. And while 221s and 807s make things easier operationally these days, there just aren't lots of people travelling up and down between Shropshire and London all the time and Avanti already caters for people who need to spend the day on business in London and get the ticket on expenses.
 
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JamesM

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1 Mar 2009
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I remember living in the area and the train would stop at stations like Ruabon and Chirk. This was great on the occasions that friends would visit and preferred not changing and just working on the train, but in reality meant a pretty sluggish journey time.

The obvious lack of a huge population in those sorts of areas was one reason, but in my humble opinion, as a potential user of the service, what finished it off was the dreadful dreadful engineering work at the weekend and crucially the complete lack of comms until a very short time beforehand. I would often compare prices and so on, and the Wrexham and Shropshire line would not even be able to say which trains would be running or how long it would take or what the diversions would be. From memory there were some crackpot diversions making the journey time down to London even longer and then some weekends certain trains wouldn't run at all, meaning getting back on the later Saturday night service was impossible.
I very quickly gave up and just went to Crewe or Chester using Virgin, who were also doing a really good Saturday one day ticket at the time too. If you're planning a day out in London at the weekend, you don't want to wait to the last minute to understand what's happening with the train service - you want to book an advance ticket or at least make concrete plans.

It was a shame, but I think the engineering works, lack of plenty of advance notice presumably from Network Rail, and poor comms was one of a number of factors in their demise. It felt unfair on them to me!

Maybe this time it will be different - but they would need engineering works to be on their side, esp with the rise in leisure travel since Covid.
 

realemil

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With Avanti being rumoured to get rid of their Shrewsbury return workings, is this a perfect time to “nudge” DfT to “approve” this?

I think this is an excellent time to market this TOC further.
 

p.d87

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With Avanti being rumoured to get rid of their Shrewsbury return workings, is this a perfect time to “nudge” DfT to “approve” this?

I think this is an excellent time to market this TOC further.
It's not a rumour. Gone from the June 24 timetable change. DfT told them to ditch it.
 

Bald Rick

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With Avanti being rumoured to get rid of their Shrewsbury return workings, is this a perfect time to “nudge” DfT to “approve” this?

DfT have nothing to do with it and no role in ‘approving’ it.
 

ChrisDY10

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DfT have nothing to do with it and no role in ‘approving’ it.
Isn't the new Avanti contract basically a management contract where they do exactly what DfT tell them too? Of course, the DfT answer to the Treasury, but basically the requirement for the railway to save money is an edict from government and nothing to do with Avanti!
 

A S Leib

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It's not a rumour. Gone from the June 24 timetable change. DfT told them to ditch it.
Off-topic slightly; weren't direct London to Walsall and Llandudno services part of the original Avanti franchise agreement, and is it safe to assume that they won't see the light of day this decade?
 

JW4

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Off-topic slightly; weren't direct London to Walsall and Llandudno services part of the original Avanti franchise agreement, and is it safe to assume that they won't see the light of day this decade?
Both were scrapped in the Dec 22 recast: https://railenable.com/oxcambpart4/...inline-timetable-Changes-by-Route-06-2227.pdf

“We will not be offering direct services to Llandudno. We have explored the feasibility of extending services to Llandudno and concluded that this is not deliverable. Network Rail has advised us that we will be unable to operate these additional services due to the safety risk associated with a level crossing and associated Sustrans cycle route south of Deganwy. Improved connectivity in future may be provided more efficiently through collaborative work to support Transport for Wales’s future timetable aspirations.”

“We will not offer direct services to Walsall. We have explored the readability of extending services to Walsall and concluded that the likely negative impact on performance, and retiming to local services outweigh customer benefits. The platform length and track layout at Walsall limits rolling stock options and requires the splitting and joining of trains at Birmingham New Street or Wolverhampton. Customers will continue to interchange with WMT services, providing a more resilient timetable in the West Midlands.”
 

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A S Leib

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From the Dec 22 recast: https://railenable.com/oxcambpart4/...inline-timetable-Changes-by-Route-06-2227.pdf
“We will not be offering direct services to Llandudno. We have explored the feasibility of extending services to Llandudno and concluded that this is not deliverable. Network Rail has advised us that we will be unable to operate these additional services due to the safety risk associated with a level crossing and associated Sustrans cycle route south of Deganwy. Improved connectivity in future may be provided more efficiently through collaborative work to support Transport for Wales’s future timetable aspirations.”

“We will not offer direct services to Walsall. We have explored the readability of extending services to Walsall and concluded that the likely negative impact on performance, and retiming to local services outweigh customer benefits. The platform length and track layout at Walsall limits rolling stock options and requires the splitting and joining of trains at Birmingham New Street or Wolverhampton. Customers will continue to interchange with WMT services, providing a more resilient timetable in the West Midlands.”
Thanks. Not massively surprising (I think LNR had a Euston – Northampton – New Street – Walsall – Rugeley service at some point with massive reliability issues) but not great either.
 

JW4

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Thanks. Not massively surprising (I think LNR had a Euston – Northampton – New Street – Walsall – Rugeley service at some point with massive reliability issues) but not great either.
The infamous May 2019 timetable.

I think that put both LNR and Avanti off splitting and joining trains a tad. Which is what happens on the Shrewsbury services (if 10 cars make it in the first place, which yesterday only 5 did.)
 

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Bald Rick

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Isn't the new Avanti contract basically a management contract where they do exactly what DfT tell them too? Of course, the DfT answer to the Treasury, but basically the requirement for the railway to save money is an edict from government and nothing to do with Avanti!

Yes, but the ‘approval from DfT’ i was querying was of the OA proposal.
 

meld3

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“...Network Rail has advised us that we will be unable to operate these additional services due to the safety risk associated with a level crossing and associated Sustrans cycle route south of Deganwy.....”
What on earth does that mean?
Do we now cancel new train services if there is a level crossing or some lycra loonies nearby?

My flabber is totally gasted....
 

zwk500

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What on earth does that mean?
Do we now cancel new train services if there is a level crossing or some lycra loonies nearby?

My flabber is totally gasted....
No idea about the reference to the cycle route, but more trains across a level crossing = more times an accident or incident might occur, therefore higher risk.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Virgin did of course run a Voyager to Llandudno for a short period in its initial franchise.
That was before the VHF timetable increased North Wales services to 5-6tpd, all to Holyhead.
The branch was due to be resignalled in the recent upgrade from Connah's Quay, but that project was cut short east of Colwyn Bay on cost grounds.
 

Doctor Fegg

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What on earth does that mean?
Do we now cancel new train services if there is a level crossing or some lycra loonies nearby?

My flabber is totally gasted....
Trainspotters really shouldn't call other people lycra loonies.
 

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