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Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway

tiptoptaff

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Lycra Loonies is a fairly accurate description of Sustrans though.

They'd turn the entire WCML in to a cycle route if you let them
 
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zwk500

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Lycra Loonies is a fairly accurate description of Sustrans though.

They'd turn the entire WCML in to a cycle route if you let them
Maybe, but a cycle path along the Conwy estuary is equally likely to be used by families and holidaymakers as it is serious cyclists. The issue for the trains is Deganwy Level Crossing, as mentioned, and the difficulty of making it safer or providing alternative routes to allow it to close outright.
 

Zontar

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I've not looked at the numbers involved, but will there be enough surplus voyagers? I see grand union also plan on using them for their proposed Stirling route.
 

Snow1964

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Appears they are submitting application to ORR today 14th March

Sounds like Alstom is involved too

Alstom, global leader in smart and sustainable mobility, and consultancy SLC Rail have announced their plans to operate a new passenger rail service across England and Wales. The open-access operation will be known as Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway (WSMR) and a formal application has been submitted today (Thursday 14 March) to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR).

WSMR is seeking to introduce direct connectivity to and from North Wales, Shropshire, the Midlands and London that doesn’t exist today, linking growing communities and businesses, and making rail travel more convenient, enjoyable and affordable.

WSMR offers passengers in Wrexham, Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Walsall and Coleshill a direct link with the capital, alongside Darlaston once its new station opens. Meanwhile, journey times between Shrewsbury and Walsall will be dramatically reduced from the current alternative.

Rail Minister Huw Merriman, said: “These exciting proposals could see better connections for communities across North Wales and the Midlands, including direct services to London from Shrewsbury, Telford and Wrexham.

“Competition delivers choice for passengers and drives up standards, which is why we continue to work with industry to help make the most of open-access rail.”

It is anticipated that WSMR services could begin as early as 2025 and it is expected the new operation will create around 50 new jobs, with roles mostly based in North Wales and the Midlands.

Nick Crossfield, Alstom Managing Director, UK & Ireland, said: “As the country’s leading supplier of rolling stock and train services, it makes perfect sense that we now move into operating our own fleet to serve passengers directly. Having been part of the fabric of UK rail for two centuries, we’re excited to enter this new era as an open-access operator.

“Alstom is also committed to embedding sustainability into every element of our organisation, and WSMR will help drive a modal shift from road to rail by offering a greener alternative for travellers across England and Wales.”

The proposal envisages a service of five trains per day in each direction Monday to Saturday, with four travelling both ways on Sundays. Trains will stop at Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Telford Central, Wolverhampton, Darlaston, Walsall, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton and Milton Keynes on their journey between Wrexham General and London Euston.

WSMR estimates it would serve a core catchment area of around 1.5 million people outside London, a population which is set to grow by 16 per cent over the next decade.

Ian Walters, Managing Director at Midlands-based SLC Rail, said: “From the Welsh borders to the Midlands, our routes will forge new connections, linking overlooked regions of England and Wales with direct services to and from London. Passengers will benefit from more competitive fares and new technology to simplify ticket purchasing for our new services. Delighting the customer will be at the forefront of what we do; we want WSMR passengers to experience a new excellence in customer service onboard our intercity trains.

“Our proposal will support sustainable housing growth, nurture communities, and unite business, leisure, and commerce along the corridor. This will enhance economies and bring a positive impact to both communities and the environment – and we can’t wait to get started!”

In the West Midlands, WSMR trains will avoid Birmingham – one of the most complex and congested parts of the British rail network – by utilising the Sutton Park line, which is currently only used for freight services. This would enable Wolverhampton and Walsall to serve Nuneaton directly for the first time, offering new travel options across the West Midlands, North Warwickshire and beyond.

As an open-access operator, WSMR is a wholly commercial operation, which remains separate from the Government’s franchised rail operations. Details regarding WSMR’s fleet, brand and service provision will be announced at a later date.


 

AlanL

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Interesting news but they seem to be choosing a strange stopping pattern and route and and by not calling at Wellington station (which had over 14,000 journeys to and from London last year) makes it difficult to see how they will fill 5 daily return trains.
 

paul1609

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Wasn't the death of the original WSMR the fact that Arriva (who by then owned both) wanted the LHCS for Chiltern, not that WSMR itself was nonviable?
I only went on a couple of days trips to the Llangollen Railway at Ruabon but basically the trains in that direction were maybe 10% full leaving Marylebone got a bit busier for the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury section where they emptied again. The last train back to Marylebone after Wolverhampton was coach to yourself sort of loadings. I think they probably did achieve some extraction for a day trip to London but that's about it, the journeytime via several freight lines in the West.Midlands and the Chiltern line was just far too slow. I had one trip that even passed through New Street non stop at what felt like 10 mph.
 

Snow1964

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chances of this ever happening? zero?

What intrigues me, is Alstom being part of it, so can't rule out some of the Bombardier fleets eg 220-222 surplus from 805, 807, 810 introduction.

Theoretically can't rule out Alstom putting pantographs on the unloved (but recently refurbished) 458s then using diesel push-pull north of Nuneaton, although that option is likely to be close to zero.

Wasn't Nuneaton an electric - diesel changeover point in mid 1960s so presumably has/had some loco sidings and provision which could be brought back into regular use.
 

Bob Price

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Interesting that SLC is involved. Aren't these the people who are now Rail Adventure? Wild speculation, 43 hauled services??
 

The Planner

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What intrigues me, is Alstom being part of it, so can't rule out some of the Bombardier fleets eg 220-222 surplus from 805, 807, 810 introduction.

Theoretically can't rule out Alstom putting pantographs on the unloved (but recently refurbished) 458s then using diesel push-pull north of Nuneaton, although that option is likely to be close to zero.

Wasn't Nuneaton an electric - diesel changeover point in mid 1960s so presumably has/had some loco sidings and provision which could be brought back into regular use.
They will use diesel all the way.
 

Snow1964

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Class 22X fleet is specified by the Open Access Application. With other proposals also made by Grand Union's England-Wales and Scotland-Wales routes, alongside the Avanti > XC transfers, the ROSCO will have a field day trying to allocate the 22x fleet to each company, if all came to fruition!

Cross country have 34 x 4car 220s, 4 x 4car 221s, 20 x 5car 221s and are due to get 7 ex Avanti 5 car 221s

Grand Central have 2 x 5car ex Avanti, want some more of 11 remaining 221s, but not sure how many.

There are 4 x 7car and 23 x 5car 222s (although could be reconfigured) which come free as 810s enter service. It is assumed some are needed for proposed Stirling and Sheffield services, but roughly half the fleet appear unallocated. Although there have been intermittent rumours of some to Scotland or the long regional services in South West replacing HSTs (but nothing confirmed)

Alstom Press Release

 

WestAnglian

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I only went on a couple of days trips to the Llangollen Railway at Ruabon but basically the trains in that direction were maybe 10% full leaving Marylebone got a bit busier for the Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury section where they emptied again. The last train back to Marylebone after Wolverhampton was coach to yourself sort of loadings. I think they probably did achieve some extraction for a day trip to London but that's about it, the journeytime via several freight lines in the West.Midlands and the Chiltern line was just far too slow. I had one trip that even passed through New Street non stop at what felt like 10 mph.
One up train per day, at least, was routed to pass New Street. It felt like 10mph because the station is space constrained and has no overlaps or AWS, hence a blanket 10mph limit.
 

Oscar46016

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So I'm guessing that they are also hoping that Euston - Milton Keynes and Nuneaton which will be non-stop will get some traffic, as well as the outer Wolves conurbation. The Wrexham / Shrewsbury / telford gives them the novelty value rather than generating huge volumes of traffic - except when all the yanks go to see Wrexham play!
 

Tomos y Tanc

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IIRC correctly W&S were losing £2-3m pa when the closed - peanuts for a company like Alstom. I suspect this may be a "toe in the water" excersise for what is a very large international operation.

I'm guessing units will be stabled at Wrexham/ salop....buy where will maintenance be conducted?

I think I'm right in saying that the Wesh Government paid for sheds in Wrexham for the W&S. I'm not sure what they're being used for at the moment, TfW probably.
 

Zontar

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IIRC correctly W&S were losing £2-3m pa when the closed - peanuts for a company like Alstom. I suspect this may be a "toe in the water" excersise for what is a very large international operation.



I think I'm right in saying that the Wesh Government paid for sheds in Wrexham for the W&S. I'm not sure what they're being used for at the moment, TfW probably.
Not a frequent visit of wrexham, but know it reasonably well....not aware of any sheds, certainly none being used anyway
 

willgreen

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I think I'm right in saying that the Wesh Government paid for sheds in Wrexham for the W&S. I'm not sure what they're being used for at the moment, TfW probably.
I think it was refurbishment of a couple of platforms for use as stabling points. No idea what the platforms are used for now, if anything.
 

diffident

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I think it was refurbishment of a couple of platforms for use as stabling points. No idea what the platforms are used for now, if anything.
They are abandoned and becoming quite overgrown.

Shouldn’t be too much of an effort to reinstate them though.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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They are abandoned and becoming quite overgrown.
Shouldn’t be too much of an effort to reinstate them though.
They get used by track machines now and again.
Not sure about length for a 5-car Voyager, though.
They did fit for WSMR's 4xMk3, DVT and loco.

The media seem to think it will be Wrexham's only service to London.
It already has Avanti's 1tpd via Chester, which will still be faster than anything via Wolverhampton.
This service now stops at Stafford rather than Milton Keynes.
One irony is that the 221s WMSR might use could come from the ex-Avanti fleet.
Wrexham and its hinterland is also a lot more than the city's football club.
 

NickBucks

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This thread clashes with one in the Infrastructure forum which makes it clear that this is an Alstom venture.
 

Kite159

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They get used by track machines now and again.
Not sure about length for a 5-car Voyager, though.
They did fit for WSMR's 4xMk3, DVT and loco.

The media seem to think it will be Wrexham's only service to London.
It already has Avanti's 1tpd via Chester, which will still be faster than anything via Wolverhampton.
This service now stops at Stafford rather than Milton Keynes.
One irony is that the 221s WMSR might use could come from the ex-Avanti fleet.
Wrexham and its hinterland is also a lot more than the city's football club.
And how frequently does that daily Avanti train get cancelled?

-----

As for the new open access operator, good news as it can introduce more competition, although unlike the ECML the southern part of the WCML already has competition with LNR only fares.
 

XCTurbostar

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Interesting that SLC is involved. Aren't these the people who are now Rail Adventure? Wild speculation, 43 hauled services??
I suspect the Alstom engagement is the most telling evidence of where the stock will come from..
 

nwales58

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Lycra Loonies is a fairly accurate description of Sustrans though.

They'd turn the entire WCML in to a cycle route if you let them
That is a general problem of modern assessment of level crossing risk implying that either the railway or the road/foot use should cease, none of which is realistic. You'll find far more dog walkers than bikes using that path - the main road is smoother and much faster.

Off-topic, but a WCML equivalent in other countries could well have a modern high quality surfaced high use cycle track built *alongside* because the gradient requirements are similar, Antwerpen-Ghent-Kortrijk, Bruxelles-Halle, Toulouse towards Montauban, parts of Merano-Mals come to mind.

Back on topic, Wrexham Shrewsbury Telford have more than novelty value, the catchment area is quite large and there are some suprising flows of what look like students. Whether the yields are high enough to pay for a through London service is another matter, filling a 221 with cheap advances might look like success but is not sustainable commercially.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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Back on topic, Wrexham Shrewsbury Telford have more than novelty value, the catchment area is quite large and there are some suprising flows of what look like students. Whether the yields are high enough to pay for a through London service is another matter, filling a 221 with cheap advances might look like success but is not sustainable commercially.
I frequently travel between south and north Wales and the section between Shrewsbury and Wrexham is often very busy - mainly with students. Despite the border running through the middle, Wrexham, northern Powys and Salop do seem to be something of an educational and economic sub-region.

The problem for WS&M is that tapping into the market for local travel could be seen as extractive when it come to TfW services.
 

nwales58

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There also appears to be a Telford-Wrexham student flow, which I don't understand. Whether those want to go to/from London at weekends (there is quite a large Abersytwyth-WCML south flow) we might find out. Of course that is almost all cheapest-possible advance traffic so crap yields.
 

Bletchleyite

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There also appears to be a Telford-Wrexham student flow, which I don't understand. Whether those want to go to/from London at weekends (there is quite a large Abersytwyth-WCML south flow) we might find out. Of course that is almost all cheapest-possible advance traffic so crap yields.

It would be hard to compete with an hourly connection at Intl onto rock bottom priced LNR services for that end of the market, to be honest. Do it that way with Advances on both and you're looking at cheaper than the coach at times.
 

WelshBluebird

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Surely an actual sensible railway system would use at least some compatible rolling stock to bolster the XC services that need it, not add a new unnecessary service.
 

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