Wrocław to Poznan

[stuartmoss]

Hi folks, I'll need to do this journey in late June. I'll be travelling midweek, likely around 13:00 onwards, does anyone have any tips, e.g. is it better to book in advance? Is First Class any good? Is there a dining car where I could sit and eat / drink with my luggage for the journey? Which side of the train will give me the best views? All suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

 

[alistairlees]

I travelled from Poznan to Wroclaw in 2019, in 1st class. It was an open coach, with seats in bays of four (or possibly bays of four and bays of two on the other side of the aisle - I can't remember), and the bays were well aligned with the windows. The table wasn't that large though. There was no catering vehicle - it was missing from the consist which was shorter than it was supposed to be and missing other coaches too. Consequently the train was rammed, with many people standing - fortunately we had reserved seats (though had to politely ask the people already in them to move - not actually a problem). The scenery is mostly flat and uninspiring though! Based on that experience, I'd definitely reserve. The train was about 09.00 from Poznan, so maybe it will be less busy later in the day.

 

[StephenHunter]

This site might help you with train formations

 

[30907]

At Leszno, the Wolsztyn steam train leaves from the LH side (twice a day).

First is 2+1 seating, as you would expect.

Buffet cars can be clogged with drinkers, or at weekends with people using them as seating, but the food isn't bad. According to the DB site - I'm being lazy - some ICs have a Buffet car, which will do food, others don't; the PKP site will be more precise, but it tends only to load info a few weeks ahead (bit like NR currently).

 

[P Binnersley]

Polrail (https://www.polrail.com/en/Poland-rail-tickets-passes-reservations) give details on train travel in Poland and buying tickets. Seat reservations are compulsory, but I don't know what happens if you get on a train without one.

Wroclaw to Poznan is operated by PKP Intercity (https://www.intercity.pl/pl/). You can also buy e-tickets from their website. Tickets go on sale one month before travel. Ticket office queues are very variable so it is best to buy in advance if you can. Most stations have self service machines, but you have to find the one for the correct company!

Currently there are trains from Wroclaw to Poznan at 11:45 (IC), 12:56 (TLK) and 14:55 (IC). TLK trains are supposed to be slower, but all trains take between 1h40m and 1h50m.

Cheaper fares can be available in advance, but fares for tomorrow are PLN 49 in second class and PLN 63 in first. There is not much difference between 1st & 2nd, but at £11 for first class its worth splashing out!

 

[181]

The scenery is mostly flat and uninspiring though!

I once enjoyed making that journey (in the opposite direction) on a rattly stopping train -- I've often thought that the range of speeds between bicycle and slow train is about right for appreciating Polish scenery. It probably wouldn't suit everyone, though.

Seat reservations are compulsory, but I don't know what happens if you get on a train without one.

I think -- although this is from what I remember reading in the past rather than from having tried it -- that you're expected to seek out the guard who will sell you a ticket (or possibly just a reservation if you already have a ticket valid for that train) at a slight extra cost.

 

[TravelDream]

Hi folks, I'll need to do this journey in late June. I'll be travelling midweek, likely around 13:00 onwards, does anyone have any tips, e.g. is it better to book in advance? Is First Class any good? Is there a dining car where I could sit and eat / drink with my luggage for the journey? Which side of the train will give me the best views? All suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

Some good advice has been given, but some of it may be outdated with Covid rules and some of it just is bad advice/ wrong.

Seat reservations on all PKP trains (TLK/ IC/ EIC/ EIP etc.) are now compulsory. Reservations on regional trains are not. You will likely be on a PKP compulsory reservation train on that route. Midweek is June shouldn't be *that* busy so reservations on the day should be more than do-able. Whilst you can buy a ticket onboard, you have to seek out the staff onboard rather than have them find out, and even then there's an additional fee.
TLK used to be cheaper than IC, but isn't true any more. It also isn't always slower than IC so don't listen to the poster above. A lot of politics is involved in Polish railways so even an IC train can stop at a village halt. The main difference nowadays is the standard of the carriages.
I would generally strongly recommend avoiding TLK trains and seek out IC or EIC ones. The main difference is that IC/EIC are more modern, have A/C and are generally a bit more spacious than TLK trains.

First class on compartment trains is three per row with nine compartments per carriage. On open carriage trains it is 2+1.
Second class on compartment trains is three per row on EIC. It is usually three per row on IC, but can occasionally be four per row. It is usually four per row on TLK. There are generally ten compartments per carriage. It is always 2+2 on open carriage trains.
Is first class worth it? Well, other than more space, it provides no extra service. However, the extra price is pretty small and Polish trains are cheap compared to the UK. If you have a fair bit of luggage, it will be easier in my experience. However, it is totally up to you.

Dining on Polish trains is provided by WARS. You can find the menu on wars.pl. I suppose it is fairly expensive by Polish standards, however the food is very decent and is good value by British standards. I would recommend it for a proper meal at least once. The EMUs don't really have a proper dining carriage with just a fairly small dining space. However, the traditional carriage trains have a more traditional larger dining space which are pretty nice. You can find people just having a drink on most trains, but this isn't an issue at all and people are not getting rowdy or drunk.
Check http://bocznica.eu/ or intercity.pl for whether the train has a dining car or not.

Unfortunately, the scenery between Wroclaw and Poznan is fairly flat and uninspiring. You aren't going to see any great views, but it is pleasant enough.

Whatever you do, don't buy from anyone other than PKP themselves (intercity.pl). Their website is in English and accepts foreign cards without issue. Why would you pay an agency fees when you don't need to? TLK and IC trains do not have advanced fares and you'll pay the same fare whether bought in advance or on the day. Only EIC and EIP trains, which don't operate on Wroclaw to Poznan, have advanced fares.

 

[dutchflyer]

Very good posting of traveldream. TLK (formerly Tanie Linie, now Twoj, this means Cheap, now Your) are old style loco+cars, dating from communist times.
I somehow recall having seen a report that-again due to covid- there is currently No food service on board trains, only drinks, but not 100% certain.
Local trains are much cheaper-PolRegio and do not have 1st. But you can also buy very cheap 3 day passes (RegioKarnet) allowing 3 days in 1 month (or 2?) anywhere in PL on PR for less as 20 €. PKP (running the fast trains) has very recently upped (or maybe from 1/2 coming) prices and has a new offer of a mid-week travel-at-will pass. Advance tickets are train-fixed and reduced price. Senior citizens get 25-33% off, no further card needed for that.

 

[F Great Eastern]

https://www.vagonweb.cz/ is where you want to use to check train compositions in Poland.

PKP rarely have uniform rakes of carriages for loco hauled (which the vast majority of IC/EIC trains and all of TLK trains are) and it's possible to have a 5-6 carriage train with 3-4 different types of carriage of different ages, styles (compartment vs open) or layouts in the same set.

There's been a few occasions where I've been on services where you have modern second class open carriages with plug sockets, passenger infor systems with good AC and comfortable seats along with first class carriages which are much older compartment style stock with poor AC, no plug sockets and no information system.

Also beware the eight seat compartment coaches that are most common on TLK trains, where they've literally squeezed eight seats into the space that six normally are.

Vagonweb will allow you to see pictures of each type of carriage in the consist of any train number, so you can use that when booking through the PKP website to try and get a reservation there.

PolRegio trains vary a fair bit. Some of them are really modern young rolling stock with all the things you could expect from it, some are EN57s, previously known as toilets, which are an outdated design that have heavy refurbishment to make them acceptable, whilst there are still some EN57s that are going around that have had a very light refurbishment and are quite an experience to say the least.

 

[30907]

https://www.vagonweb.cz/ is where you want to use to check train compositions in Poland.

Unfortunately the 2022 info is not available and, according to the site owner, is (probably) not going to appear.

However, 2021 is a decent guide.

 

[Denis103]

Unfortunately the 2022 info is not available and, according to the site owner, is (probably) not going to appear.

However, 2021 is a decent guide.

There is an alternative for Polish trains in 2022 with a train composition guide. http://bocznica.eu/

 

[F Great Eastern]

There is an alternative for Polish trains in 2022 with a train composition guide. http://bocznica.eu/

Not quite as detailed as VagonWeb though and lacks the photos of the train interiors which for me were one of the best bits about VagonWeb as you knew what you were getting and also seems to be PKP only.

Poor UI as well, I wondered how to get the formations up. Click the train names it is, but for some reason on mouseover they don't act as link by having the usual hand icon on mouseover.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Hi folks, I'll need to do this journey in late June. I'll be travelling midweek, likely around 13:00 onwards, does anyone have any tips, e.g. is it better to book in advance? Is First Class any good? Is there a dining car where I could sit and eat / drink with my luggage for the journey? Which side of the train will give me the best views? All suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

In terms of views, there's almost nothing to see. The train avoids the slightly-scenic Trzebnica Hills, so you don't even get the pleasure of those, small as they are. After that, Wielkopolska is just flat farmland, and there's really nothing interesting except that the train follows the S5 expressway part of the way. So sit where you want, there's nothing worth seeing anyway

The difference between TLK and IC trains is supposed to be that TLK trains are made up of older carriages while IC is supposed to be new (and with dining cars). In practice, it's an absolute lottery as to what actually turns up. First class with a reserved seat isn't a terrible idea though, as PKP Intercity have got serious overcrowding issues.

A lot of politics is involved in Polish railways so even an IC train can stop at a village halt.

Ah, like express trains stopping at the town of a certain ex-Prime Minister?

 

[TravelDream]

The difference between TLK and IC trains is supposed to be that TLK trains are made up of older carriages while IC is supposed to be new (and with dining cars). In practice, it's an absolute lottery as to what actually turns up. First class with a reserved seat isn't a terrible idea though, as PKP Intercity have got serious overcrowding issues.

All PKP trains are now compulsory reservation so this shouldn't be (and I emphasise 'shouldn't be' and not isn't') an issue. I was on a train in Poland not much more than a month ago that had several standees and people hunting for seats after departure. Several had bought tickets from the conductor and several were clearly evading paying the fare.
The issue might come with booking a ticket though as weekend and summer trains could indeed be incredibly busy.

On your first point, TLK really has no obvious purpose.
It has the same fares as IC, same journey times and its stopping patterns are often comparable to IC, Polish schedules are lacking in many areas so it provides no meaningful competition with IC.
The core difference is that carriages are generally older, lack A/C, have higher density seating and very rarely (though some do) have dining cars. Of course it is not 'supposed' to be this way and PKP do not advertise it as such. I suppose this is useful for the passenger as they can avoid the 'less nice' trains.
When TLK was first introduced, things were different. For one fares were cheaper than IC and there were no reservations unlike IC.

 

[Cloud Strife]

All PKP trains are now compulsory reservation so this shouldn't be (and I emphasise 'shouldn't be' and not isn't') an issue.

It is absolutely ridiculous. The "buy before departure" works well on the EIP trains because of the insanely high additional fare, but it's a non-issue on IC/TLK trains. I suspect that, as always, it's political: people would rather sit on overcrowded trains than not take the train at all. I first moved to Poland in 2008, and I still can't believe that they haven't solved the overcrowding issues yet.

I remember one WARS franchise owner getting absolutely furious because the train was crowded and the dining car was completely full. She went through the wagon with the conductor, and every single person who wasn't consuming something bought from there was thrown out. People were furious, but again, this was a failing of PKP Intercity.

On your first point, TLK really has no obvious purpose.

It really has no purpose whatsoever, except to act as a warning that the train is potentially an old wreck. The fact that the fares are the same is the key problem - it would really make sense to increase the IC fares quite a bit, especially given the gulf in standard between the old TLK wagons and the new IC ones.

I don't know where I've read it, but it seems that PKP Intercity might finally be imposing restrictions on the sale of discounted tickets during peak times. One of the biggest and most absurd problems in Poland lies with the way that peak time trains are often filled with people on discounted fares, meaning that full-price paying travellers are denied the possibility to travel. That, and the fact that it's also nonsense for a Friday afternoon train to be priced at the same as a midday Wednesday train.

Having said all that, Poland has come a long way from the days of when the pospieszny trains were still operated by Przewozy Regionalne and they were the only form of affordable long distance travel. I had the misfortune once of travelling between Jelenia Góra and Poznań overnight on one back in 2008, and the amount of drunken disorder on that train was really something to behold. I locked myself in a compartment with two friends, and we paid off the conductor with 50zł to turn a blind eye to us blatantly lying to people that we'd booked the entire compartment.

 

[TravelDream]

It really has no purpose whatsoever, except to act as a warning that the train is potentially an old wreck. The fact that the fares are the same is the key problem - it would really make sense to increase the IC fares quite a bit, especially given the gulf in standard between the old TLK wagons and the new IC ones.

I don't know where I've read it, but it seems that PKP Intercity might finally be imposing restrictions on the sale of discounted tickets during peak times.

I am not an expert on PKP, but I have traveled pretty extensively on Polish trains. An issue with that would be the busiest trains aren't always the ones you'd expect.
IC trains arriving in Warsaw at 9am can be half empty whilst the 2pm departure from Warsaw jam-packed. A city centre 5pm departure, on the other hand, can be really quiet. It can be incredibly seasonal. And how do you peak/ off-peak fare a route that only runs every 3+ hours?

Part of that is down to how the working day varies as some have more western style hours and others retain communist-era hours. Companies can start anytime between 7am and 9am or even later and finish any time between 3pm and 6pm.

Part of it is down to how PKP has never had a schedule that could be described as passenger-friendly. Their trains seem to run at odd hours with major cities having multi-hour breaks between trains. I wrote on here not too long ago about Warsaw to Poznan. There were two departures around 6am and then a further two just before 10am. What sense does that make? I flew instead.
I think what is notable is how many passengers onboard are on discount tickets. Often it is well over half showing a OAP (30% discount) or student card (51% discount) or similar. It seems full-fare paying passengers are far fewer than you'd see in this country as they seem to stick to their car.

There's also the issue that some of the most overcrowded trains on the network on summer weekend services up to the tri-city or Zakopane. How would you define that peak?

The most sensible solution, to me, would be to bring EIC/EIP pricing to the whole network other than really short hops. I'd also reduce the student discount to 30% the same as pensioners. A clockface timetable is probably pushing it, but I think spreading out trains so they are more evenly spread through the day with some peak increases between major cities would be sensible.

It is notable since regional governments have taken over many regional services from PR how that has driven passenger demand. What has changed? More frequent clockface timetables, more modern trains, better marketing, integrated ticketing etc. Nothing revolutionary.