Wrong tickets used - what will happen?

[514lady]

Hello! I was recently travelling back from Marylebone to Leamington spa, I decided to leave work early and hop on an earlier train. Just after leaving Banbury they announced that they will check tickets. I opened my train line app and realised I had an advanced single for a later train on my return journey so I panicked bought a ticket from Banbury to Leam just in case. When I went to show my ticket he scanned it and asked me why I bought this on the train. I said my story above and he got his colleague who showed me a badge and said they need my details and someone from the team will be in touch. Extremely stressful moment as this all happened within 5 mins left of my train journey. I have been doing this journey twice a week for years. I have never done this intentionally and am stressed out. What will happen??

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Did you show the inspector the Advance ticket you had for the later train?
Were you given any paperwork by the inspector, if so can you upload a redacted copy of what you were given in this thread.

It's likely that Chiltern will write to you in the next few weeks saying they have received a report and are threatening prosecution but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. As long as you co-operate with them Chiltern will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement which will cost the full Anytime fare for your journey plus an admin fee, typically around £150. They won't offer any credit for the invalid tickets you did purchase.

When Chiltern's letter arrives post a redacted copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and we can assist with proof reading it for you.

 

[514lady]

I tried to explain that I had this ticket but it was very rushed and wasn’t given the opportunity to show my ticket. They didn’t give me anything but ask for my ID and while taking my details they said someone from the team will be in touch. I was definitely a bit flustered and regret not just showing the advanced ticket initially.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Would the OP have been better off just showing the (invalid) Advance ? That presumably would have resulted in a straight penalty fare, not a potential prosecution?

 

[minderbinder]

I tried to explain that I had this ticket but it was very rushed and wasn’t given the opportunity to show my ticket.

Well, of course, you were given the opportunity to show your ticket but showed the short ticket you bought instead of the advance you held.

That said, it’s a shame they didn’t ask you how you got through the gates at Marylebone, which would have presumably revealed the truth.

The reason why they took your details is because your behaviour will have appeared to them, on the surface, to be classic fare-dodging (buying a cheap ticket for the shortest possible distance to get through the gates at the end of your journey). The Chiltern team will want to look at your Trainline account and see if this is a pattern. It sounds like this is the only occasion you have ever done this, and they will very likely offer to settle out of court by asking you to pay the full price of an anytime ticket for this journey plus an investigation cost.

If they were to find any other irregular journeys on your Trainline account, they might ask for an explanation about these too.

 

[Gloster]

If Chiltern find no other dubious purchases on your record they will probably, as said above, charge you the correct price of the ticket and an investigation fee. Normally the investigation fee is £120-150, but we have occasionally seen Chiltern reduce it for genuine mistakes like this. If they do offer you a reduced investigation fee, I would recommend that you accept it. We saw a case a few months ago where the applicant argued and ended up having to pay (in total) more than ten times what they were originally asked for. It may seem annoying, but you made a mistake, in fact several, and they have had to spend money investigating it. But note that such generosity is not guaranteed. When you get a letter from Chiltern get back to us promptly - settlement of offers has to be made within a week or two - and the experts, of which I am not one, will provide advice.

 

[John R]

Well, of course, you were given the opportunity to show your ticket but showed the short ticket you bought instead of the advance you held.

That said, it’s a shame they didn’t ask you how you got through the gates at Marylebone, which would have presumably revealed the truth.

The reason why they took your details is because your behaviour will have appeared to them, on the surface, to be classic fare-dodging (buying a cheap ticket for the shortest possible distance to get through the gates at the end of your journey). The Chiltern team will want to look at your Trainline account and see if this is a pattern. It sounds like this is the only occasion you have ever done this, and they will very likely offer to settle out of court by asking you to pay the full price of an anytime ticket for this journey plus an investigation cost.

If they were to find any other irregular journeys on your Trainline account, they might ask for an explanation about these too.

I think that’s a bit of a leap, as it could well be that the barriers accepted the ticket?

 

[minderbinder]

I think that’s a bit of a leap, as it could well be that the barriers accepted the ticket?

But from the guard/RPI's perspective, OP didn't have a ticket to present at the barriers because the short ticket was purchased after boarding.

If the guard/RPI had asked how OP got through the gates at Marylebone, OP would presumably have presented the advanced ticket and it would have made a bit more sense of the situation.

 

[514lady]

Okay thanks guys! Let’s see what they come back with. More thank happy to pay a fine for the mistake. thanks for reassuring me! I had no idea the extent of the mistake. I’ve never bought a Banbury to Leamington journey before so I’m sure they’ll see that. It always the same peak time ticket return.

Would the OP have been better off just showing the (invalid) Advance ? That presumably would have resulted in a straight penalty fare, not a potential prosecution?

This is my regret!! I should have just shown in, stupid panic.

When they look at my trainline they will see tickets from Leamington to Marylebone return for nearly 2 years every week paid. Hope that’s enough proof!

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay thanks guys! Let’s see what they come back with. More thank happy to pay a fine for the mistake. thanks for reassuring me! I had no idea the extent of the mistake. I’ve never bought a Banbury to Leamington journey before so I’m sure they’ll see that. It always the same peak time ticket return.


This is my regret!! I should have just shown in, stupid panic.

When they look at my trainline they will see tickets from Leamington to Marylebone return for nearly 2 years every week paid. Hope that’s enough proof!

Obviously I suspect you will factor this in in general terms every time you buy a ticket - but my rule of thumb is never to buy an 'Advance' ticket that is time restricted to a particular train unless it is at a significant financial discount that means I feel it's worth sacrificing the flexibility of other types of ticket (eg Anytime or Off Peak) that can both be bought at the last minute before travel and can be used more flexibly if my plans change.

Of course what the value of that discount is 'worth' will vary from person to person and how flexible they wish to be with things like being able to leave work early, or have to stay late etc etc.

Of course tangential to the situation you are now in, but had you not had an 'Advance Single' ticket I suspect the problem might never have arisen...

Good luck in getting this resolved - you will get all the help you need from this forum.

 

[514lady]

Obviously I suspect you will factor this in in general terms every time you buy a ticket - but my rule of thumb is never to buy an 'Advance' ticket that is time restricted to a particular train unless it is at a significant financial discount that means I feel it's worth sacrificing the flexibility of other types of ticket (eg Anytime or Off Peak) that can both be bought at the last minute before travel and can be used more flexibly if my plans change.

Of course what the value of that discount is 'worth' will vary from person to person and how flexible they wish to be with things like being able to leave work early, or have to stay late etc etc.

Of course tangential to the situation you are now in, but had you not had an 'Advance Single' ticket I suspect the problem might never have arisen...

Good luck in getting this resolved - you will get all the help you need from this forum.

100% agree, it’s a big decent discount but I now know the extent of what using the wrong ticket means. I didn’t realise at all. Thanks for being so supportive. I’ll report back asap.

 

[Haywain]

100% agree, it’s a big decent discount but I now know the extent of what using the wrong ticket means.

As you had an Advance ticket for a later train, you could have changed this to travel on the earlier train as long as you did so prior to travel. You would have been charged the difference up to the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel plus a £10 change of journey fee. I believe that there are one or two retailers who will allow you to make the change without charging the £10.

 

[WesternLancer]

As you had an Advance ticket for a later train, you could have changed this to travel on the earlier train as long as you did so prior to travel. You would have been charged the difference up to the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel plus a £10 change of journey fee.

Yes, of course this is helpful info to add to my point above.

 

[514lady]

As you had an Advance ticket for a later train, you could have changed this to travel on the earlier train as long as you did so prior to travel. You would have been charged the difference up to the cheapest ticket available for immediate travel plus a £10 change of journey fee. I believe that there are one or two retailers who will allow you to make the change without charging the £10.

I know now thank you!!!

 

[514lady]

Here is the letter I got! It says there may be other occasions but I’ve always had a ticket from Marylebone to Leamington. There’s been a couple of occasions where I took a train one earlier but have always asked the staff, showed my fare and they said it’s fine.

How should I structure my response?

Here is the letter I got! It says there may be other occasions but I’ve always had a ticket from Marylebone to Leamington. There’s been a couple of occasions where I took a train one earlier but have always asked the staff, showed my fare and they said it’s fine.

How should I structure my response?

@Hadders fyi!

 

[Hadders]

I think you need to say what happened:

- You had an Advance ticket for a later train
- You travelled on an earlier train
- You purchased a short distance ticket when the ticket inspector came along

In addition mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern mention other irregularities. Have you done this before? Or are there any other irregularities in your ticket purchasing history. If you've used Advance tickets on the wrong train before have these been scanned either on board or at the ticket barriers at either end of the journey that would indicate they've been used on the wrong train. If so, I think you should explain this.

 

[enyoueffsea]

Just after leaving Banbury they announced that they will check tickets. I opened my train line app and realised I had an advanced single for a later train on my return journey so I panicked bought a ticket from Banbury to Leam just in case.

I appreciate everyone is different but I never understand the thought process when people state they have done this. It is something that comes up on here frequently. In addition to that, in a lot of cases it turns out this was not a one off either.

Essentially, what you are saying here is:

1. I realised I had the wrong ticket only at the point I was made aware someone would check my ticket and I missed all of the previous announcements and signs about ticket checks.

2. When I realised I had the wrong ticket, rather than seeking advice from the guard, I purchased an even more incorrect ticket at coincidentally the cheapest distance/cost.

It’s really important you are entirely honest to ensure the advice you get is tailored to your circumstances to get the best outcome.

Did you definitely hold the Marylebone to Leamington ticket? And have you ever done this before; buying a shorter ticket than your distance, buying a ticket after a train has departed or using advance tickets at the incorrect time?

Question to those better informed than me - do the barriers let you through with an advance ticket for a later train? I’ve seen people have been prevented accessing before and the staff pointed out they had a ticket for later on, or is that just a quirk of the station I visited?

 

[514lady]

I think you need to say what happened:

- You had an Advance ticket for a later train
- You travelled on an earlier train
- You purchased a short distance ticket when the ticket inspector came along

In addition mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern mention other irregularities. Have you done this before? Or are there any other irregularities in your ticket purchasing history. If you've used Advance tickets on the wrong train before have these been scanned either on board or at the ticket barriers at either end of the journey that would indicate they've been used on the wrong train. If so, I think you should explain this.

Thanks for your advice I will

I think you need to say what happened:

- You had an Advance ticket for a later train
- You travelled on an earlier train
- You purchased a short distance ticket when the ticket inspector came along

In addition mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern mention other irregularities. Have you done this before? Or are there any other irregularities in your ticket purchasing history. If you've used Advance tickets on the wrong train before have these been scanned either on board or at the ticket barriers at either end of the journey that would indicate they've been used on the wrong train. If so, I think you should explain this.

Thank you ! Will take this advice and write an email covering each point. I’ve always bought my ticket for a full journey and never from a shorter distance.

Do you know how long they take to reply to these emails?

 

[Hadders]

It can take several weeks to get a response as the department that deals with sort of thing has a big workload at the moment.

 

[514lady]

It can take several weeks to get a response as the department that deals with sort of thing has a big workload at the moment.

Thanks for your support here. Let’s see what they come back with. Honestly I’ve never done a half fare before and have pretty regular train travel.