WTT Abbreviations Q & Y - What's the difference?

[Andy873]

Can anyone please explain the difference between the Q and Y WTT abbreviations please.

Q "Runs when required"
Y "Runs to and from Terminals / Yards as determined by traffic demand"

I'm looking at a WTT from 1978 regarding deliveries to Padiham CEGB (see attached).

Does Y denote something like it's either going to Padiham CEGB or Huncoat CEGB depending on which needs the delivery?

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[306024]

Yes that’s pretty much it.
A ‘Q’ path is a single path that simply runs as required.
A ‘Y’ path is one where the core path over a certain core section is the same, but origin or destination (or both) may vary. ’Y’ paths are just slightly more complicated ‘Q’ paths.

 

[Andy873]

Yes that’s pretty much it.
A ‘Q’ path is a single path that simply runs as required.
A ‘Y’ path is one where the core path over a certain core section is the same, but origin or destination (or both) may vary. ’Y’ paths are just slightly more complicated ‘Q’ paths.

Thanks for that.

So it's a kind of "on demand to either one" in this case.

 

[306024]

Yep, or no demand to either in which case neither run.

Y paths are useful to avoid clogging up the timetable with paths where the resources (loco, wagons or crew) only exist to run one of the options.

 

[Andy873]

Yep, or no demand to either in which case neither run.

Y paths are useful to avoid clogging up the timetable with paths where the resources (loco, wagons or crew) only exist to run one of the options.

Thanks, that explains it perfectly.

Then on weekdays MSX, a train could have gone to one or the other, or simply not run at all if there was no demand.

 

[SargeNpton]

Thanks, that explains it perfectly.

Then on weekdays MSX, a train could have gone to one or the other, or simply not run at all if there was no demand.

Sometimes Q and Y paths are used to reserve a path for a train that is frequently diverted for engineering works (most late night/early morning services mid-week). The Q/Y tag being removed on those dates that it is confirmed that the train will run in the path.

That way, other services along the diversionary route can be timetabled around that reserved path without having to be adjusted at the last minute to accommodate the diversion.

 

[Springs Branch]

A ‘Y’ path is one where the core path over a certain core section is the same, but origin or destination (or both) may vary. ’Y’ paths are just slightly more complicated ‘Q’ paths.

The OP's question relates to freight trains - but I believe a similar concept was used for summer Saturday passenger trains when the railways catered for mass migrations from northern towns during Wakes Weeks.

As an example, on every midsummer Saturday there might be one or more paths in each direction provided in the WTT between Warrington Bank Quay (or maybe Winwick Junction) and Llandudno or Butlins Penychain for holiday specials. Depending which Lancashire town was starting its Wakes Week, the trains would originate back in that area, with departures timed to more or less pick up the booked path when it got to the Warrington area. One week it might start from Bolton, the following Saturday from Burnley etc.

The sequence of Wakes Weeks was well established by custom & convention, so the railways could plan the special workings months (or years) ahead. Unfortunately I don't have access to WTT of this vintage, so can't check how these were indicated in the timetables (obviously not by a "Y") - or even whether my assertation was strictly true.

 

[Systemwide]

Hi All, Good Morning to you!

For my first post, Could I add to this topic by asking what a 'pathway' actually is please?

I understand the types of path such as Q, Y etc but what does it mean when a path is not available for example?

If I wanted to run a loco from a depot at say 5pm, and a train is already timetabled to pass the yard at 5pm, is that where a pathway would not be available, because a schedule already exists for another movement?

Leading on from that then, is a pathway simply a list of all the white space in a timetable for a route?

Any help with this would be very much appreciated,

Thankyou,

SW

 

[Andy873]

Firstly, welcome to the forum - nice to have you onboard.

If I wanted to run a loco from a depot at say 5pm, and a train is already timetabled to pass the yard at 5pm, is that where a pathway would not be available, because a schedule already exists for another movement?

Yes and no.

A working timetable (WTT, which is a timetable for employees only) would be a starting point as they show movements for not just passenger trains, but empty trains (ECS), and individual engine movements either on their way to work the say 9.55 am to X or back to the shed "after working the 10.15 am from Y".

If both the engine and the train needed to use the same section of track at the same time, the engine would be scheduled to run say 5 minutes before or after i.e. not at the same time.

If however, at this location there are two tracks for the same direction e.g. up fast & up slow, then the engine would travel on the up slow allowing the train to past quickly on the up fast track.

You have to bare in mind that timetables are planned, and a conflict of two movements on the same section (one track) at the same time would not be allowed.

Leading on from that then, is a pathway simply a list of all the white space in a timetable for a route?

It depends on what you mean by white space.

If you look at the WTT map attached, you will see between Blackburn and Rose Grove (Burnley) there are two possible routes. One via Accrington, and one via Padiham.

Now in the WTT showing say movements East (from Colne) to Preston the stations are listed for both routes. If a train (or engine) runs via Accrington the intermediate stations / junctions will have times the train passes them. A train going this route will show empty spaces against the other landmarks i.e. Padiham station (on the other line).

That's how it's shown in a WTT, you could argue that the second route (with no movement on it at that time) is a possible pathway. One reason the route going via Padiham was built was to provide a diversion route away from the then busy Accrington station.

See attachments,
Andy.

 

[Ken H]

So fast forwarding a bit, when the airepower MGR trains were planned there would be a load of Y paths to plan round? The MGR planners would use these to generate a train plan. Then roster the drivers and trains!
Is that about right?

 

[zwk500]

Hi All, Good Morning to you!

For my first post, Could I add to this topic by asking what a 'pathway' actually is please?

Leading on from that then, is a pathway simply a list of all the white space in a timetable for a route?

In essence, a path is available capacity that can be used to run a train. It generally is a published schedule, but sometimes is identifiable without one.
At the most basic, you need the headway value for a route, although it's a lot more variable than that because different trains have different running characteristics, can or can't be looped, etc. And then you get to junction capacity as well.
You get paths that are published schedules with trains running, paths that are published but may not have a train in them, as well as paths that are not yet confirmed schedules and paths assumed at high level analysis thst do not have actual times or orgin/destinations.

It depends on what you mean by white space.

White space is a term generally applied to the train planning graphs rather than WTT. Trains are drawn on a time-distsnce graph, and colours used to distinguish various characteristics (e.g. running line). The timetable when empty would be a white sheet of paper. As the lines get drawn in, the white space gets used up until at the end of the process you are left with a handful of gaps.

A path can be found using only white space, or it can be created by amending other trains around it to clear conflicts.

 

[2192]

The OP's question relates to freight trains - but I believe a similar concept was used for summer Saturday passenger trains when the railways catered for mass migrations from northern towns during Wakes Weeks.

As an example, on every midsummer Saturday there might be one or more paths in each direction provided in the WTT between Warrington Bank Quay (or maybe Winwick Junction) and Llandudno or Butlins Penychain for holiday specials. Depending which Lancashire town was starting its Wakes Week, the trains would originate back in that area, with departures timed to more or less pick up the booked path when it got to the Warrington area. One week it might start from Bolton, the following Saturday from Burnley etc.

The sequence of Wakes Weeks was well established by custom & convention, so the railways could plan the special workings months (or years) ahead. Unfortunately I don't have access to WTT of this vintage, so can't check how these were indicated in the timetables (obviously not by a "Y") - or even whether my assertation was strictly true.

Similarly, when I queried why a photo of a steam passenger train was labelled "Manchester Victoria to Bournemouth", rather than coming from London Rd (ie Picc.) I was told that it would have actually started from one of the Lancashire mill towns, depending on which was on Wakes Week. Presumably northbound the staff at Bournemouth station (probably West) would have known which town it was ultimately going to!

 

[6Gman]

The OP's question relates to freight trains - but I believe a similar concept was used for summer Saturday passenger trains when the railways catered for mass migrations from northern towns during Wakes Weeks.

As an example, on every midsummer Saturday there might be one or more paths in each direction provided in the WTT between Warrington Bank Quay (or maybe Winwick Junction) and Llandudno or Butlins Penychain for holiday specials. Depending which Lancashire town was starting its Wakes Week, the trains would originate back in that area, with departures timed to more or less pick up the booked path when it got to the Warrington area. One week it might start from Bolton, the following Saturday from Burnley etc.

The sequence of Wakes Weeks was well established by custom & convention, so the railways could plan the special workings months (or years) ahead. Unfortunately I don't have access to WTT of this vintage, so can't check how these were indicated in the timetables (obviously not by a "Y") - or even whether my assertation was strictly true.

I may be wrong but I think the path forward to (or from) Bolton/ Burnley etc was done individually for each week though I may be wrong (a bit before my time!).

I understand there was a similar arrangement in the West Country with at least one Paignton-Bristol train which hardly ever terminated at Bristol but could be extended to various destinations (e.g. via Honeybourne to the W Midlands or via Hereford to the North West).

 

[Magdalia]

Similarly, when I queried why a photo of a steam passenger train was labelled "Manchester Victoria to Bournemouth", rather than coming from London Rd (ie Picc.) I was told that it would have actually started from one of the Lancashire mill towns, depending on which was on Wakes Week. Presumably northbound the staff at Bournemouth station (probably West) would have known which town it was ultimately going to!

There was also a Manchester Victoria to Yarmouth that worked similarly. Once a year it provided a through journey from Horwich to Norwich!

 

[Gloster]

At my low level as a signalman thirty-five years ago I took a pathway or path as being workable timings known by Control or the various Special Trains Sections for trains that weren’t even treated as ‘As Required’ ones. These would be trains organised at short notice to meet a situation. The path would take into account other movements, likely motive-power, loadings and speeds of the trains.

For example, if it looked as if half the population of Bristol had decided to head for south Devon a relief could be arranged and the timings would allow it to run ahead of the regular train. Sometimes this would come out on a notice, but on other days you would just get a message saying something like, “Bristol-Paignton Relief leaving Bristol at 09.45. To run ahead of 1V62 and make the same stops.” Or, if some ballast wagons were urgently required, you might get, “Special ballast leaving Exeter Riverside for Bristol East Depot at 14.15. To follow 1M91 from Cogload.”

Although Q has long been around, I think that Y may have been a much later addition, possibly as late as the 1980s. However, different Regions often had different practices.

 

[rototunablack5]

I came across an earlier thread on this subject. Quite a lot of posts but contains some pathing references: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-holiday-special-trains.221424/

For NE Lancs, Colne was a key location with a carriage shed and extensive sidings with numerous day as well as long distance excursions heading both west and east. According to various handbills weekday trains appear to have been routed through Padiham with a stop at Simonstone and the weekend ones often called at Hapton with a stop at Accrington. In the other direction trains ran from Simonstone, Padiham, Burnley, Nelson and Colne to Filey, Scarborough and Saltburn. This last one ran via Ilkley, then Harrogate, Ripon and Northallerton

 

[Andy873]

For example, if it looked as if half the population of Bristol had decided to head for south Devon a relief could be arranged and the timings would allow it to run ahead of the regular train. Sometimes this would come out on a notice, but on other days you would just get a message saying something like, “Bristol-Paignton Relief leaving Bristol at 09.45. To run ahead of 1V62 and make the same stops.” Or, if some ballast wagons were urgently required, you might get, “Special ballast leaving Exeter Riverside for Bristol East Depot at 14.15. To follow 1M91 from Cogload.”

For me on a side note this is very interesting how you describe extra trains being routed either by a notice or simply a message coming along - thanks.

Although Q has long been around, I think that Y may have been a much later addition, possibly as late as the 1980s. However, different Regions often had different practices.

That's a great question, when was Y first used?

@Springs Branch was kind enough to send me WTT's from 1974,78 & 79 and I can see the Y is being used in 1974. The latest one in my collection (1963) does not have it nor is it listed in the abbreviations section.

All of these WTT mentioned cover the LM region (central or there abouts) but I don't know if any other regions / areas were using it before 1974?

 

[Tramfan]

As another basic scenario, imagine a stopping service departing a terminal (Station A) at 12pm, stopping at Stations B, C and D. A fast train departs the terminal 10 mins later, not stopping at any of the other stations, it will likely catch up to the stopper. The train planning graphs mentioned earlier show these kinds of things, so whilst it may look like there's lots of available space for more trains to depart the terminal in that 10 mins, the graph would show that the gap (headway) between the stopper and the fast train closes up further down the line, and so you may actually not be able to fit another train in there, unless you can loop the stopper (either with separate slow/fast lines, a passing loop, a station etc.)

 

[jfollows]

All of these WTT mentioned cover the LM region (central or there abouts) but I don't know if any other regions / areas were using it before 1974?

I have working timetables such as Section K Wellingborough & Derby 3/5/71 to 30/4/72 with
Y - Stops only for running-round or reversing movement
which would appear, I think, in the middle of a train time rather than at the top of the column.
No mention of Y in a 1972-73 LM working timetable,
then
Y - Runs to and from Terminals/Yards as determined by traffic demands
in Section M Crewe & Manchester 7/5/73 to 5/5/74.
(However Y was not used in Western and Southern WTTs for the 1973-74 timetable year.)

That's a great question, when was Y first used?

So 1973-74 on the LM from my quick and non-exhaustive search.

EDIT But Y had disappeared from LM working timetables in 1988 (Q was still there) and never appeared in any other region's WTTs that I can find from 1973 to 1988. By 1992 it came back again, now in WTTs from all regions/sectors such as Network SouthEast as well as LM.

 

[FGW_DID]

The earliest WTT I have is a 1973 Scottish Region, Y appears in there. My other WTTs are mainly LMR & WR, Y appears in all the freight ones, the latest I have is an LMR 86/87 and Y appears in that.

My solitary ER freight WTT (82) & SR freight WTT (85) both have it as well.

 

[jfollows]

The earliest WTT I have is a 1973 Scottish Region, Y appears in there. My other WTTs are mainly LMR & WR, Y appears in all the freight ones, the latest I have is an LMR 86/87 and Y appears in that.

My solitary ER freight WTT (82) & SR freight WTT (85) both have it as well.

Good point, my WTTs are all passenger ones and only for some of the years (until 1980 I think) were they for "mandatory" train services which included freight, from 1981 onwards they're for "passenger and parcels" trains only.

 

[Adrian Barr]

"Y Path" gets a technical definition from the Office of the Rail Regulator, in terms of track access rights, in a short document I found here - https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/Proposed-new-Schedule5-annexB.pdf

“Y Path” means, in relation to a specified Service (which may be shown in one or more Service Group References and as identified by the letter “Y” in the column headed “Days per Week” and “Y with [insert Train Reporting Number]” in the column headed “Special Terms”), where the Train Operator has the Firm Right to that Service to: (a) depart from one or more Origins to the same Destination; and/or (b) arrive at one or more Destinations from the same Origin, as set out in the Rights Table, provided that the Train Operator shall not be entitled to more than one Y Path Option within any one Y Path on any particular Day; and

“Y Path Option” means in relation to a Y Path, one Origin and one Destination from a combination of one or more Origins and one or more Destinations.

As has already been said in previous posts, I think 'Y' paths are typically associated with freight services which run to or from different terminals as required, sharing the same timings over at least part of the route, where only one option can actually run on any particular day.

A good example of a Y path can be found in the Dec 2020 Freight WTT, section WK03, page 11 (click through to the relevant section) - https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/

On a Friday there are 5 different "Y" path options departing Angerstein Wharf at 11:07 (one of them is an 11:03 departure, but they all pass Charlton at 11:22 and use the same "path" at least as far as Hither Green).
There's a 6V65 to Acton, 6M55 to Wembley, 6Y55 to Woking, 6U55 to Hither Green sidings, or 6M56 to Cricklewood. Only one of these could actually run on any particular day.

Two other examples that spring to mind are the schedules for the potash trains from Boulby. There are typically identical headcodes and departure times for trains to either Tees Dock or Middlesbrough Goods, as required by the customer. Having both schedules in place in the WTT as a "Y option" saves time having to create new schedules for each weekly plan or any amendments to it.

Another Y path that's been in the timetable for years is the evening train from Merehead to either Eastleigh (7O43) or Botley (7O44) Foster Yeoman terminals.

Could I add to this topic by asking what a 'pathway' actually is please?

I understand the types of path such as Q, Y etc but what does it mean when a path is not available for example?

Adding to some of the previous comments:

"Path" is sometimes used loosely and interchangeably with "schedule" although it's not quite the same thing, for example "The signaller says there's no path in the system for 6M55" or "Network Rail are going to put a path in for it" (i.e. create a schedule on their computer systems). Sometimes you might run one train in the path of another train that isn't required. For example there is a regular 6X77 Dagenham - Mossend car train. If this wasn't running on a particular day, you could use this "path" to run a train from Wembley to Warrington Arpley, or Warrington Arpley to Carlisle, for example, using the same timings.

Pathways can refer to potential "slots" for trains, for example if you say something like "there are paths for X number of Class 4 container trains per hour on Y route." Or there might be potential paths for a freight train during most of the day from a terminal on a particular branch line if it departs at 13 minutes past the hour - even though there may be no actual schedules at these times, there is a "path" where it could fit in between other timetabled trains without delaying them.

"No path available" basically means there is no way of creating timings for a train, close to the requested departure and arrival times, without conflicting with other services and delaying them. There could be conflicts at junctions, where one train will have to wait for the other, or delays caused by one train now having to follow a train in front which is slower, stopping at more stations, or where there is just insufficient "headway" between planned trains to add another. "No path available" might be a phrase you hear if you are trying to arrange something "ad hoc" through the "Very Short Term Planning" process (VSTP), such as a freight movement across London during peak hours. As an example where no path would be available, there is a regular loaded spoil train (6E35) from Acton to Peterborough which departs around midnight and runs along the East Coast Main Line via Welwyn. If you wanted to alter the timings and change the departure time to the start of the evening peak, there would almost certainly be "no path" for it - no way of running it without commuter services getting stuck behind it and causing delays.

So fast forwarding a bit, when the airepower MGR trains were planned there would be a load of Y paths to plan round? The MGR planners would use these to generate a train plan. Then roster the drivers and trains!
Is that about right?

I think a lot of the local Aire Valley trips would probably have been planned on a weekly basis, with schedules created to suit and not too many conflicts with passenger trains to worry about. The longer distance services in later years (along the Settle & Carlisle or the East Coast) were more likely to have been planned as "Y" options that could serve Drax / Eggborough / Ferrybridge as required, or continue to somewhere like West Burton, from Scotland or the North East (if they weren't staged at Milford Sidings first). In BR days I think a lot of the coal from the North East to the Aire Valley was staged at York yards, so the main line part of the journey might have been in the WTT but not necessarily the colliery / power station trips at each end (possibly there were Y paths from York to the power stations). It would be interesting to know how much power station coal traffic was actually in the WTT in BR days.

 

[CW2]

I worked in Leeds Control Office in a (very) junior position, before it got closed down back in the early 1980s. At that time the MGR coal traffic was thriving. It was a full time job for one of the Controllers to establish what coal was being produced, and which power stations were operating - and at what capacity. A weekly base train plan would be drawn up and published according to the weekly forecasts, but in all honesty it served mainly as the basis for making the day-to-day (or minute-to-minute) alterations.
One of the Controllers who covered the Diggle route was of a rather nervous disposition, so whenever a loaded coal train heading over the Pennines towards Fiddlers Ferry left Healey Mills, he would be on tenterhooks to see whether or not it would make it over Diggle without slithering to a halt and requiring assistance. Autumn, class 56s, and full trains are not a happy combination! Since I had to deputise for his meal breaks, sometimes it all fell on my shoulders! I never had one fail on me though ...

 

[Ken H]

Thanks @Adrian Barr & @CW2 for that insight.

 

[Springs Branch]

Good point, my WTTs are all passenger ones and only for some of the years (until 1980 I think) were they for "mandatory" train services which included freight, from 1981 onwards they're for "passenger and parcels" trains only.

During the 1970s BR's timetables (at least in some of the Regions) were issued as either "Mandatory" (passenger, parcels and important long-distance freight like Freightliners), or "Conditional" which applied to much of the other freight, light engines etc.

The first page of the Conditional books (the index page) started with a block heading:-

This timetable contains trains which, because of their less regular nature, do not qualify for inclusion in the Mandatory timetables. They have been designated "Conditional" in order to indicate that they may be subject to short notice cancellation on a day-by-day basis when insufficient traffic is available for movement. In this event, a separate advice will be given.

Whilst the "Q" designation certainly appeared here & there in Mandatory timetables of that era, I don't think I've ever seen a "Q" path in the Conditional versions. Is it true to say the BR Conditional working timetables were, in fact, a whole book of Q-paths?

I think a lot of the local Aire Valley trips would probably have been planned on a weekly basis, with schedules created to suit and not too many conflicts with passenger trains to worry about. The longer distance services in later years (along the Settle & Carlisle or the East Coast) were more likely to have been planned as "Y" options that could serve Drax / Eggborough / Ferrybridge as required, or continue to somewhere like West Burton, from Scotland or the North East (if they weren't staged at Milford Sidings first). In BR days I think a lot of the coal from the North East to the Aire Valley was staged at York yards, so the main line part of the journey might have been in the WTT but not necessarily the colliery / power station trips at each end (possibly there were Y paths from York to the power stations). It would be interesting to know how much power station coal traffic was actually in the WTT in BR days.

Elsewhere on the coal network, looking at the LMR's Section CU Working Timetable for Oct 1976 - Apr 1977 for Godley Jn - Ditton Jn, there are a couple of examples of "Y" paths which started and finished at variable locations - see attachments.

This particular timetable covered the western portion of the trans-Pennine MGR route between Yorkshire and Fiddlers Ferry in the later years of the Woodhead route, and included other assorted trains using the freight-only lines from Godley via Stockport Tiviot Dale, Arpley Jn & Fiddlers Ferry to Widnes.

Most (but not all) Fiddlers Ferry trains seemed to have a fixed origin at either Wath, Rotherwood or Barnsley Jn, but there were several old-school Class 9 freights per day such as:-
9M33 - 12:30 Tinsley or 12:40 Rotherwood to either Garston, or Arpley or Glazebrook East Sidings, indicated as "Y", with identical paths over Woodhead as far as Skelton Jn.

At this time, Fiddlers Ferry also received at least two or three MGR trains per day originating in the Lancashire coalfield at Bickershaw or Parkside Collieries, which joined the line at Arpley Jn. Although these ran for a short distance along the WCML. they were probably sufficiently 'out of the way' on the WCML slow lines not to have needed fixed paths and were treated more like trip workings throughout. So, unlike the Yorkshire MGR trains, the Bickershaw & Parkside trains didn't appear in the WTT.

I worked in Leeds Control Office in a (very) junior position, before it got closed down back in the early 1980s. At that time the MGR coal traffic was thriving. . . .

This reminded me that in the early 1980s I had a girlfriend who lived in Lymm in Cheshire. Driving down from Wigan for a mid-week visit after work, if it was a nice summer evening I would often take the 'scenic' route to Lymm via the Ship Canal toll bridge at Warburton (avoiding the M6 Thelwall Viaduct which was even more of a nightmare before widening).

On these drives, I'd guess around 50% of the time I'd be held up at the level crossing at Heatley (just east of Lymm) while a MGR thundered through - usually a Class 47 or 56 hauling HAA hoppers. Occasionally there was a longer delay when both loaded and empty trains came through in opposite direction.

This was after Woodhead had closed, but obviously before closure between Skelton Jn & Latchford (allegedly due to condition of the Ship Canal bridge). It certainly seemed a busy and well-maintained heavy freight route at the time, and Fiddlers Ferry was clearly gobbling up a lot of the black stuff from Yorkshire.

I didn't realise at the time the reason that so many coal trains were delaying my romantic intentions was probably the deliberate stockpiling of coal at Fiddlers Ferry ahead of the up-coming 1984 miners' strike.

After closure of the Skelton Jn - Arpley section, I did wonder how easily BR managed to fit all those coal trains into the alternative routes over Diggle and through Manchester Victoria. Anyhow, getting a bit OT for 'Q' & 'Y' paths here.

 

[Systemwide]

"Y Path" gets a technical definition from the Office of the Rail Regulator, in terms of track access rights, in a short document I found here - https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/om/Proposed-new-Schedule5-annexB.pdf



As has already been said in previous posts, I think 'Y' paths are typically associated with freight services which run to or from different terminals as required, sharing the same timings over at least part of the route, where only one option can actually run on any particular day.

A good example of a Y path can be found in the Dec 2020 Freight WTT, section WK03, page 11 (click through to the relevant section) - https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/

On a Friday there are 5 different "Y" path options departing Angerstein Wharf at 11:07 (one of them is an 11:03 departure, but they all pass Charlton at 11:22 and use the same "path" at least as far as Hither Green).
There's a 6V65 to Acton, 6M55 to Wembley, 6Y55 to Woking, 6U55 to Hither Green sidings, or 6M56 to Cricklewood. Only one of these could actually run on any particular day.

Two other examples that spring to mind are the schedules for the potash trains from Boulby. There are typically identical headcodes and departure times for trains to either Tees Dock or Middlesbrough Goods, as required by the customer. Having both schedules in place in the WTT as a "Y option" saves time having to create new schedules for each weekly plan or any amendments to it.

Another Y path that's been in the timetable for years is the evening train from Merehead to either Eastleigh (7O43) or Botley (7O44) Foster Yeoman terminals.



Adding to some of the previous comments:

"Path" is sometimes used loosely and interchangeably with "schedule" although it's not quite the same thing, for example "The signaller says there's no path in the system for 6M55" or "Network Rail are going to put a path in for it" (i.e. create a schedule on their computer systems). Sometimes you might run one train in the path of another train that isn't required. For example there is a regular 6X77 Dagenham - Mossend car train. If this wasn't running on a particular day, you could use this "path" to run a train from Wembley to Warrington Arpley, or Warrington Arpley to Carlisle, for example, using the same timings.

Pathways can refer to potential "slots" for trains, for example if you say something like "there are paths for X number of Class 4 container trains per hour on Y route." Or there might be potential paths for a freight train during most of the day from a terminal on a particular branch line if it departs at 13 minutes past the hour - even though there may be no actual schedules at these times, there is a "path" where it could fit in between other timetabled trains without delaying them.

"No path available" basically means there is no way of creating timings for a train, close to the requested departure and arrival times, without conflicting with other services and delaying them. There could be conflicts at junctions, where one train will have to wait for the other, or delays caused by one train now having to follow a train in front which is slower, stopping at more stations, or where there is just insufficient "headway" between planned trains to add another. "No path available" might be a phrase you hear if you are trying to arrange something "ad hoc" through the "Very Short Term Planning" process (VSTP), such as a freight movement across London during peak hours. As an example where no path would be available, there is a regular loaded spoil train (6E35) from Acton to Peterborough which departs around midnight and runs along the East Coast Main Line via Welwyn. If you wanted to alter the timings and change the departure time to the start of the evening peak, there would almost certainly be "no path" for it - no way of running it without commuter services getting stuck behind it and causing delays.



I think a lot of the local Aire Valley trips would probably have been planned on a weekly basis, with schedules created to suit and not too many conflicts with passenger trains to worry about. The longer distance services in later years (along the Settle & Carlisle or the East Coast) were more likely to have been planned as "Y" options that could serve Drax / Eggborough / Ferrybridge as required, or continue to somewhere like West Burton, from Scotland or the North East (if they weren't staged at Milford Sidings first). In BR days I think a lot of the coal from the North East to the Aire Valley was staged at York yards, so the main line part of the journey might have been in the WTT but not necessarily the colliery / power station trips at each end (possibly there were Y paths from York to the power stations). It would be interesting to know how much power station coal traffic was actually in the WTT in BR days.

Hi,

Many Thanks to you all for your knowledgeable replies to this topic, which seems to be highly complex in places. Adrian Barrs reply is perfect for me, being familiar with the Angersteins workings. A train leaving Angersteins and en-route to say Park Royal, could be sent to Acton, Battersea or Paddington New Yard instead, depending where the product was needed. Plant failure or empty stocks could also cause such a change, but the rerouting wouldn’t impact any other services.

I’m aware that Padd New Yard hasn’t been served from ‘Angrysteins’ for many years!



SW