XC and GWR train crew shortages

[trolleyman]

It's kind of true: staff are refusing to work overtime because of ongoing disputes. And GWR are heavily briefing that it is "strike action".

As I said on the Scotrail thread, overtime is cheaper than extra staff for TOCs. Many staff want a 4 day week and no overtime, because they can plan their life better. But TOCs don't want to pay for it.

And with the way the government is deliberately trampling over goodwill, it's no wonder we have staff shortages. People won't sign up for extra if they're treated like crap.

I can confirm there is no strike/industrial action in the driver or guard grades At GWR.

 

[class 9]

It's not "here and there" though is it. It's happening too often in the area where I live (between Manchester and Leeds) and not just on Sundays. No recent experience of GW. I don't recall British Rail cancelling trains (except maybe in the London area) and that will be because they hired enough staff OR relied on overtime at a time when drivers were less well paid and needed the extra shifts. Railways used to be a way of life, often for several generations of the same family, Now it's just a job. Is that unfair?

Back in BR days, Sundays were outside the working week, but were always covered as working them was a necessity due to the poor wages, when I started driving in 93 the Drivers basic was £210 a week.

 

[Weekender]

Presumably if a reliable service is provided on the weekend, more passengers use the service which covers additional staff costs

That says it all really, i’m sure i’m not the only one who has given up trying to travel with GWR on Sunday’s

But would enough additional passengers use the service to make the it more profitable to justify it? I'm not talking here about the social-economic benefit just the benefit to the TOC and/or DfT.

i think they would, i’m sure i’m not the only one who has given up trying to travel with GWR on a Sunday.

 

[LMS 4F]

The Sunday service in the 1960s when I was travelling back to camp most weekends was appalling. I used to go to Bedford and just wait to see what turned up as the timetable seemed to be optional. It was then a bus back to Tidworth from near Waterloo as it went much later than any train and was cheaper.

 

[LordCreed]

Well it would be as much of a problem as them not being in on a Tuesday if there was a 7 day rota. If all staff have 5 (roughly 7 if public holidays are rolled into it) weeks annual leave, a rota would be calculated based on ~13.5% of staff not being in on any given day. So roughly for every 8 duties which need doing, the company requires 9 employees.

Unfortunately quite a substantial underestimation. We work to two drivers / guards per duty (50% attendance). Bringing Sunday into the weekly week would mean you'd be planning on around 40% attendance per day. A substantial cost.

 

[6Gman]

Back in BR days, Sundays were outside the working week, but were always covered as working them was a necessity due to the poor wages, when I started driving in 93 the Drivers basic was £210 a week.

In my late dad's day (60s and 70s) Sunday work was greatly coveted.

 

[800 Driver]

No drivers or guards have a contractual commitment to work Sundays within their contracted hours at GWR. Some depots have a legally dubious 'commitment to work' overtime on Sundays, however there aren't enough of them to cover the train service. The Unions want Sundays within the working week. There is no strike action. the fact any trains run at all is a miracle and purely down to the commitment of employees to their passengers.

 

[Meerkat]

There is no strike action. the fact any trains run at all is a miracle and purely down to the commitment of employees to their passengers.

They aren’t getting paid for Sunday’s, they just do it out of charitable natures?

 

[CharlesR]

No drivers or guards have a contractual commitment to work Sundays within their contracted hours at GWR. Some depots have a legally dubious 'commitment to work' overtime on Sundays, however there aren't enough of them to cover the train service. The Unions want Sundays within the working week. There is no strike action. the fact any trains run at all is a miracle and purely down to the commitment of employees to their passengers.

Unions want Sundays? Ive never even heard of a union rep working one!

 

[vikingdriver]

Unions want Sundays? Ive never even heard of a union rep working one!

Yes! I think I've said a few times on this thread now that it is the TOCs who are reluctant not the unions. ASLEF want a 4 day week with no overtime. That is their aspiration, their goal. Everyone likes a good old union and staff bash but you've got it the wrong way round.

 

[Wychwood93]

Yes! I think I've said a few times on this thread now that it is the TOCs who are reluctant not the unions. ASLEF want a 4 day week with no overtime. That is their aspiration, their goal. Everyone likes a good old union and staff bash but you've got it the wrong way round.

There should always be the opportunity of overtime. No 'compulsion' to do it, of course, just the chance to save up for a holiday, get stuff done at home etc. Before my wife and myself had the children we worked silly hours to get money in - I am sure it was the same for many of you out there? The children come along and it is me doing the hours - to me that was part of the family/parenthood job.

 

[Sleepy]

Unions want Sundays? Ive never even heard of a union rep working one!

Reverse - some reps only drive on Sundays !

 

[Sleepy]

Unions want Sundays? Ive never even heard of a union rep working one!

Reverse - some reps only drive on Sundays !

 

[w1bbl3]

There should always be the opportunity of overtime. No 'compulsion' to do it, of course, just the chance to save up for a holiday, get stuff done at home etc. Before my wife and myself had the children we worked silly hours to get money in - I am sure it was the same for many of you out there? The children come along and it is me doing the hours - to me that was part of the family/parenthood job.

It depends on the industry but non shift based industries have very much moved away from the concept of paid overtime, indeed with hour banking schemes based on semi flexible principles automotive and much of the traditional manufacturing industries are now providing far less opportunity for paid overtime in the form of additional salary. Sundays falling outside of the working week but being a core service commitment thus requiring permanent overtime to cover is very much a quirk of TOC employment contracts which will at some point have to be addressed either by the TOC's or at re-franchising by DfT.

 

[800 Driver]

Yes! I think I've said a few times on this thread now that it is the TOCs who are reluctant not the unions. ASLEF want a 4 day week with no overtime. That is their aspiration, their goal. Everyone likes a good old union and staff bash but you've got it the wrong way round.

Absolutely this

 

[Weekender]

A better performance on GWR today, only 25 cancellations when I looked this morning.

 

[GoneSouth]

A better performance on GWR today, only 25 cancellations when I looked this morning.

And at the moment they are going to manage a train to Cheltenham!

What I don’t understand though is people say the Cheltenham service gets binned first because it’s a stand-alone shift that’s out and back to Padd. When I checked earlier I saw there was a cancelled Padd to Chelt but the return Chelt to Padd was still running. How does that work? I assume they don’t have trains lying around at Chelt for hours doing nothing.

 

[PHILIPE]

And at the moment they are going to manage a train to Cheltenham!

What I don’t understand though is people say the Cheltenham service gets binned first because it’s a stand-alone shift that’s out and back to Padd. When I checked earlier I saw there was a cancelled Padd to Chelt but the return Chelt to Padd was still running. How does that work? I assume they don’t have trains lying around at Chelt for hours doing nothing.

If 1G32 is the one you are thinking of, it is running as an ECS so presumably due to non-availability of Train Manager and that one has been sourced to work iL70

 

[GoneSouth]

If 1G32 is the one you are thinking of, it is running as an ECS so presumably due to non-availability of Train Manager and that one has been sourced to work iL70

So you mean it runs empty from Padd to Chelt? The green contingent won’t like that, how much diesel would that waste? I’m hoping not as much as it used to as it can run under wires to Swindon presumably.

 

[PHILIPE]

So you mean it runs empty from Padd to Chelt? The green contingent won’t like that, how much diesel would that waste? I’m hoping not as much as it used to as it can run under wires to Swindon presumably.

Would you rather the return be cancelled ?

 

[dk1]

Would you rather the return be cancelled ?

He did put a so only joking.

 

[PHILIPE]

He did put a so only joking.

Sorry, missed it. It's the regular question

 

[GoneSouth]

Sorry, missed it. It's the regular question

I was joking, after all who could take GWR Sunday services seriously!

Still joking!!!

 

[Carlisle]

. ASLEF want a 4 day week with no overtime. .

So I suspect do the vast majority of the UKs full time workforce given Labour have suggested it as a possible manifesto commitment, the question is whether entitlement should depend entirely on a particular unions negotiating power, or there’s a bigger picture to consider.

 

[LMS 4F]

So I suspect do the vast majority of the UKs full time workforce given Labour have suggested it as a possible manifesto commitment, the question is whether entitlement should depend solely on a particular unions negotiating power, or there’s a bigger picture to consider.

A four day week maybe possible at the moment but it is the number of hours contracted to work which will be the problem. Even more so if there are limits as to how many hours a day can be worked for safety reasons. Drivers and train managers fit into this category of course.

 

[Mag_seven]

only 25 cancellations

That's still 25 too many.

 

[Carlisle]

A four day week maybe possible at the moment but it is the number of hours contracted to work which will be the problem. Even more so if there are limits as to how many hours a day can be worked for safety reasons. Drivers and train managers fit into this category of course.

Cheers for the extra information

 

[ValleyLines142]

My 1034 Trowbridge to Swindon via Melksham was cancelled yesterday, so had to wait for the 1106 to Bath and change there (and even that was 20 minutes late too). Arrived at Swindon at 1236 instead of 1114, so good old delay repay has gone straight to GWR this morning!

 

[Envoy]

Surely, different people are at various stages of life? Young people just starting off with no families or older workers whose children have left home might look more favourably on Saturday / / Sunday work than people who have children that they wish to spend time with over the weekends? Why for example, can’t work be offered to the recently retired who might welcome a couple of days work over the weekend? Of course, I would not welcome loads of pensioners taking work from young people. What is clear is that the public deserve better than a situation where staff are not contracted to work Sundays. Can you imagine what would happen if nurses, police and firepersons were not obligated to work Sundays?

 

[ComUtoR]

Back on track: 100-year-old Gordon Pritchard celebrated his birthday by returning to the driver's seat

https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/1171838700474589185

Retired Driver 'back in the cab'