XC Direct Award granted to October 2020: What improvements would you like to see?

[tbtc]

"More customers are set to benefit as the Department for Transport (DfT) and CrossCountry finalise plans to deliver thousands more seats on long distance routes each week from December 2020. Longer trains will operate on some services on Mondays to Thursdays on the routes from Scotland, the North East and Manchester to the South West and the South Coast."
Surely the bold bit does mean that the Manchester to Birmingham corridor is set for improvements. Even if it means having to wait until December.

Possibly just one service a day (Monday to Thursday) being upgraded from a four coach to a five coach (because the HSTs are being used more intensively on the paths that can accommodate them) - I wouldn't expect too much here - this is pretty much the bare minimum, but that's the Government's fault for continually tinkering with a franchise that should have finished almost four years ago - effectively the Government have kept XC on Life Support, keeping it functioning but not much more than that.

It's clearly constrained by lack of capacity (I don't always buy into the "If You Build It They Will Come" approach but XC is one of the few franchises where I know "normal" people who will deliberately avoid their trains) - but the Government show no interest in taking the difficult decisions necessary to allow it to grow.

Maybe it'll get the ex-Avanti/EMR units but we'll still have to wait a few years for them, so until then an extra couple of middle carriages for 170s is about as much as we can hope for - incredibly frustrating but (given the lack of lucrative First Class market that London's InterCity TOCs can have, the large overheads and complications from having so many remote depots etc etc) it's a franchise which needs some Government backing/guarantees in order to grow properly.

 

[class 9]

The direct award was awarded last year to run through to December this year.
The extra stock is 170 centre cars to strengthen some of the 2 car sets.

 

[Starmill]

Is there really time to complete the move of Turbostar non-driving vehicles to CrossCountry between now and the change date? These things often seem to drag on rather longer than anticipated. Unless it is literally just two units being strengthened.

 

[lammergeier]

"More customers are set to benefit as the Department for Transport (DfT) and CrossCountry finalise plans to deliver thousands more seats on long distance routes each week from December 2020. Longer trains will operate on some services on Mondays to Thursdays on the routes from Scotland, the North East and Manchester to the South West and the South Coast."
Surely the bold bit does mean that the Manchester to Birmingham corridor is set for improvements. Even if it means having to wait until December.

If the HST's are out more then it can release a five car voyager to replace a four car, possibly on the Manchester/Bournemouth run.

 

[class 9]

On the gov.uk press release, it says 5000 extra seats from May 2020 and a further 15000 from mid 2021, but typical government no further details.

 

[lammergeier]

The centre vehicles aren't due until May 2021, I believe they are the "15000 extra seats." I assume the "5000 extra" this May will be diagram changes to release an extra 170 or two, perhaps by reducing the turn around time at Nottingham.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The direct award was awarded last year to run through to December this year.
The extra stock is 170 centre cars to strengthen some of the 2 car sets.

So actually today's announcement isn't about the Arriva contract at all, but it does add some rolling stock improvements before it expires (on current plans).

 

[class 9]

So actually today's announcement isn't about the Arriva contract at all, but it does add some rolling stock improvements before it expires (on current plans).

Correct. No mention of future franchise, although with the plans set out go into next year, I reckon that could point to yet another extension to the direct award.

 

[Master29]

What a shame they can't look at the longer distance journeys.

 

[hwl]

What a shame they can't look at the longer distance journeys.

That is what the extra Mon-Thur HST diagram later in the year is about. Thus releasing 2 x voyagers

 

[greatvoyager]

On the gov.uk press release, it says 5000 extra seats from May 2020 and a further 15000 from mid 2021, but typical government no further details.

I wonder where the 15000 seats in mid 2021 will come from.

 

[lammergeier]

I wonder where the 15000 seats in mid 2021 will come from.

I believe it's the 6 x 170 centre cars, not sure if it also includes extra use of the HST's

 

[hwl]

I wonder where the 15000 seats in mid 2021 will come from.

That is around an extra 35 carriages trips per day so given comparatively few trips per aveage diagram on the long distances or rather more on 170 diagram gives very different answers!

HST on 4 days + extra 170 centre cars is in the right ball park...

 

[S-Bahn]

Isn't it amazing how a press release can make 6 additional 170 carriages and a HST sound like a transformative upgrade to the national core non-London Intercity franchise.

Let's hope the Avanti Voyagers and EMR Meridians transfer to the XC franchise as those franchises receive their 80x's. Now that would be something to shout about

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't it amazing how a press release can make 6 additional 170 carriages and a HST sound like a transformative upgrade to the national core non-London Intercity franchise.

Let's hope the Avanti Voyagers and EMR Meridians transfer to the XC franchise as those franchises receive their 80x's. Now that would be something to shout about

It isn’t that new, DfT and TOCs have been routinely multiplying the numbers into per day, per week or per month figures for some years. That way the same trivial capacity increase can be counted maybe a couple of hundred times...

 

[The Joker]

The centre vehicles aren't due until May 2021, I believe they are the "15000 extra seats." I assume the "5000 extra" this May will be diagram changes to release an extra 170 or two, perhaps by reducing the turn around time at Nottingham.

Which would be fine but some of the severe overcrowding issues arise in the first place because of maintenance issues resulting in failures so that 2 car sets have to substitute for 3 car sets! This year the booked 4 car set running the main morning commuting Nottingham - Cardiff (arriving BHM New street 0827) has seen a substitution for a 3 car numerous times which presumably is a double whammy as some other service is reduced from 3 to 2 cars. If the 170’s have to work harder then logically the failure incidences are likely to rise leading to more overcrowding issues than they solve!

 

[Tom Quinne]

So their taking Centre cars from 170/6 (?) units to increase two car units to three cars...great stuff.

I am the only one wondering why they don’t just swap the 2 car units for the 3, save any issues with Centre cars not talking to driving cars?
Balances the maintenance etc, or is rush just to simple?

 

[coradiafan2000]

I'm gonna try and be optimistic about this. After seemingly a decade of no progress, at least something is happening. Something that I may actually notice.

Some of this thread just reads like some people getting upset that their specific bit of the XC network isn't getting improved any time soon, and while that's completely justified and I agree with them, I feel like we should at least be appreciating that a small improvement is on the horizon. Dare I say it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I think when a new “long” term agreement is signed off we’ll see a big order for Class 800 style trains to prop up the Hitachi plant in the North East.

Hitachi wouldn’t be investing money in welding equipment, and paint shops if they didn’t have a whisper that more trains would ordered.

The 800 platform does appear to been become the intercity train of choose, the bi mode format would suit XC quite nicely.

We just need to wait until DfT sign off on the deal proper.

 

[morgainelive]

XC really is getting slated at the moment..Twitter on Sunday was rife with complains XC is in a worse state than ever before! They desperately need more stock and time thw dft ordered it or got the olderHSTs out of storage! The.fleet is struggling A failed train Sunday at 1331 Bhm Man last Sunday which only failed at Stafford even though it was obviously not working properly at Birmingham meant we were all kicked off at Stafford meaning huge overcrowding on the next train as you had 2 loads of people the capacity is dire as is their fleet flexibility and their communication with passengers .No one seemed.to care at all even those with reduced mobility like myself were simply told to.get off and wait with no.ticket accrptance for any other routes e.g. via Crewe on other operators.Oh but wait i forgot it's arriva so arriva never on time. In future i'll go back to going via Crewe its cheaper if not a little longer on Lnw and Northern

 

[dk1]

So their taking Centre cars from 170/6 (?) units to increase two car units to three cars...great stuff.

I am the only one wondering why they don’t just swap the 2 car units for the 3, save any issues with Centre cars not talking to driving cars?
Balances the maintenance etc, or is rush just to simple?

I don't think there are any 'talking' issues with 170s apart from the PIS systems. They where one of the last of the basic trains really, hence why they worked straight out of the box.

 

[Aictos]

I don't think there are any 'talking' issues with 170s apart from the PIS systems. They where one of the last of the basic trains really, hence why they worked straight out of the box.

Indeed then again didn’t Southern had issues with their Class 171s when they got the cascaded Class 170s from Scotland to convert to the former?

 

[Robertj21a]

XC really is getting slated at the moment..Twitter on Sunday was rife with complains XC is in a worse state than ever before! They desperately need more stock and time thw dft ordered it or got the olderHSTs out of storage! The.fleet is struggling A failed train Sunday at 1331 Bhm Man last Sunday which only failed at Stafford even though it was obviously not working properly at Birmingham meant we were all kicked off at Stafford meaning huge overcrowding on the next train as you had 2 loads of people the capacity is dire as is their fleet flexibility and their communication with passengers .No one seemed.to care at all even those with reduced mobility like myself were simply told to.get off and wait with no.ticket accrptance for any other routes e.g. via Crewe on other operators.Oh but wait i forgot it's arriva so arriva never on time. In future i'll go back to going via Crewe its cheaper if not a little longer on Lnw and Northern

Are Arriva generally 'never on time' ? - given the distances they cover I've usually found them to be reasonably good, just very busy.

 

[dk1]

Are Arriva generally 'never on time' ? - given the distances they cover I've usually found them to be reasonably good, just very busy.

Same here mate.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I think when a new “long” term agreement is signed off we’ll see a big order for Class 800 style trains to prop up the Hitachi plant in the North East.

.

Possibly, although there will be 20 Voyagers and a fair number of Meridians needing a new home which would appear a very natural fit too and which still have a lot of life left in them.

 

[Aictos]

Same here mate.

Indeed, I’ve used them a few times and if they were delayed, it’s because they’re quite busy which affects dwell times.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

That is what the extra Mon-Thur HST diagram later in the year is about. Thus releasing 2 x voyagers

Hopefully the diagram that's the 06:22 Penzance to Dundee and 09:25 Penzance to Dundee will be booked for an HST Monday to Thursday considering until the December 2018 / May 2019 timetable the then 11:25 from Plymouth to Dundee was a double Voyager between Bristol Temple Meads and Newcastle.

That 08:37 Penzance to Glasgow Central could do with more than a 5-car Voyager on Fridays - people complain about overcrowding on this particular service when 5 coaches on Fridays.

 

[Neen Sollars]

This type of announcement is really misleading, the long suffering XC passengers will have to endure years more inconvenience and uncomfortable journeys. These boards are good for nailing things down, so hardly anything extra this year and 6 centre coaches next year, to leave 7 of the current 13 two car units to continue. Watching videos covering the Worcs. Parkway opening a young YouTuber (the one with the cloth toy mascot) jumped back on a XC service to New Street and the inside shot showed it was completely rammed and that was on a Sunday!

 

[Caaardiff]

Whilst theres the obvious fleet shortage at TfW, the 170s received from Anglia aren't being fully utilised and are currently confined to Maesteg- Cheltenham and Cardiff/Bridgend- Ebbw Vale.
No other TfW routes are cleared for 170s.

Could XC sacrifice the Cardiff-Nottingham service (or some of them) and TfW extend to Birmingham NS. In the short term freeing up some 170s for XC and TfW fully utilising the 170s to New St instead of just to Cheltenham? Longer term TfW could top up the new fleet on order to support the extra services.
The current plan is for 170s eventually to run on Heart of Wales but with the low speed and constant stop start of stations, they don't appear to be ideal for the route.

 

[swt_passenger]

Possibly, although there will be 20 Voyagers and a fair number of Meridians needing a new home which would appear a very natural fit too and which still have a lot of life left in them.

I always think the chances of anything but extra Voyagers and/or Meridians are very low. But then I was convinced the 442s would never return to SWR...