XC rolling stock speculation (including whether tilt could return)

[LNW-GW Joint]

What about crosscountry adding an order onto the batch of 897s CAF are going to build for LNER ?.
Could they be fitted to run on diesel as well as overhead and 3rd rail electrification?

DfT is not going to authorise new build for XC when there is plenty of life left in the existing (enhanced) fleet.
By the time the Voyagers are finished, there should be bi-mode cascades available from elsewhere from electrification (TPE, MML, possibly GWR if wires extended).

 

[Towers]

What about crosscountry adding an order onto the batch of 897s CAF are going to build for LNER ?.

Could they be fitted to run on diesel as well as overhead and 3rd rail electrification?

Yes please. It’d be a blessed relief to see another intercity stock order for something other than Hitachi’s “offering”.

For all their faults, a Voyager with a sensible loading is one of the most comfortable trains remaining on the network, particularly in Avanti spec. As always, the theme here being that new stuff simply doesn’t offer passenger comfort any more, whether that be the seating or the ride.

 

[Bald Rick]

DfT is not going to authorise new build for XC when there is plenty of life left in the existing (enhanced) fleet.

But they might do if, say, the choice is:

1) ’spend £100m in lease costs retro-fitting fleet with ETCS for a fleet with 5-10 years life in it’
2) ‘spend an extra £10m in lease costs on a new, more efficient and higher capacity fleet with ETCS factory fitted‘

 

[Mogz]

For all their faults, a Voyager with a sensible loading is one of the most comfortable trains remaining on the network, particularly in Avanti spec. As always, the theme here being that new stuff simply doesn’t offer passenger comfort any more, whether that be the seating or the ride.

That’s one of the most annoying things about the Voyagers.

They had the potential to be very comfortable trains.

If they had been longer with better leg room, a better mix of tables and airline seats and better window alignment, they could have been brilliant.

 

[43096]

That’s one of the most annoying things about the Voyagers.

They had the potential to be very comfortable trains.

If they had been longer with better leg room, a better mix of tables and airline seats and better window alignment, they could have been brilliant.

What was (and is?) needed was a combination of the Voyagers and 180s: take the passenger accommodation of the 180s and match it with the below-floor reliability of the Voyagers.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But they might do if, say, the choice is:

1) ’spend £100m in lease costs retro-fitting fleet with ETCS for a fleet with 5-10 years life in it’
2) ‘spend an extra £10m in lease costs on a new, more efficient and higher capacity fleet with ETCS factory fitted‘

I guess that depends on the roll-out of ETCS (lights away) to XC routes.
That would seem to be at least a decade away if the rollout sequence is ECML south, TRU and WCML north.

 

[800001]

Voyagers with tilt continued to operate between Birmingham and Scotland on the West Coast, just not via Manchester.

It always seemed a bit odd that tilt was set up between Wolvercote and Aynho because not that many services were run with 221s under Operation Princess.

What Voyagers tilt on the WCML?
XC don’t run to Scotland via WCML and don’t tilt anyway as it is isolated , and Avanti no longer use there voyagers.

 

[JonathanH]

What Voyagers tilt on the WCML?
XC don’t run to Scotland via WCML and don’t tilt anyway as it is isolated , and Avanti no longer use there voyagers.

None now, bit I was referring to the post 2007 situation, as essentially the poster I was responding questioned why tilt was ever fitted to the 221s as in trying to 'unpick what Virgin Cross Country was thinking before Operation Princess'

 

[dk1]

DfT is not going to authorise new build for XC when there is plenty of life left in the existing (enhanced) fleet.
By the time the Voyagers are finished, there should be bi-mode cascades available from elsewhere from electrification (TPE, MML, possibly GWR if wires extended).

Yes we can talk about possible replacement stock in maybe ten years time, but in the meantime Voyagers will rule on the main XC routes.

 

[800001]

None now, bit I was referring to the post 2007 situation, as essentially the poster I was responding questioned why tilt was ever fitted to the 221s as in trying to 'unpick what Virgin Cross Country was thinking before Operation Princess'

Apologies I read it on continue, my bad.

 

[Discuss223]

I think XC runs a few 8 or 9 coach Voyager diagrams at certain times of the day.

Yes, the 11:25 Plymouth to Dundee has always been a 9 coach whenever I've seen it. In an ideal world, the 5 coach Voyagers would have been put on a direct replacement of the diagrams for the HSTs, which were diagrammed to call at the busiest stations at the busiest times of the day.

 

[Tetragon213]

Yes, the 11:25 Plymouth to Dundee has always been a 9 coach whenever I've seen it. In an ideal world, the 5 coach Voyagers would have been put on a direct replacement of the diagrams for the HSTs, which were diagrammed to call at the busiest stations at the busiest times of the day.

As an unashamed lover (and therefore definitely an unbiased commenter!) of the HST, in an ideal world they'd still be running

In my personal opinion, I think XC should be using bi-modes, on the basis that they are the operators who would benefit the most from bi-modal capabilities in light of the UK's patchwork electrification. It would also act as a direct replacement for the HSTs without needing to shuffle any Voyagers and/or Turbostars.

 

[irish_rail]

Yes, the 11:25 Plymouth to Dundee has always been a 9 coach whenever I've seen it. In an ideal world, the 5 coach Voyagers would have been put on a direct replacement of the diagrams for the HSTs, which were diagrammed to call at the busiest stations at the busiest times of the day.

Trouble is it's not a 9 car between Plymouth and Bristol and is very frequently heaving on this stretch!

 

[43055]

Yes, the 11:25 Plymouth to Dundee has always been a 9 coach whenever I've seen it. In an ideal world, the 5 coach Voyagers would have been put on a direct replacement of the diagrams for the HSTs, which were diagrammed to call at the busiest stations at the busiest times of the day.

The 2 old HST diagrams are diagramed to be double voyagers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Trouble is it's not a 9 car between Plymouth and Bristol and is very frequently heaving on this stretch!

This is why GWR should be strengthening services between Bristol and the South West, to relieve pressure on XC. Something the proposed Paignton Lumo service might do, perhaps.

 

[YorksLad12]

The 2 old HST diagrams are diagramed to be double voyagers.

Diagrammed, but not necessarily running as so, part route or whole.