XC strike Sat 13th April OFF

[father_jack]

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Industrial Action​

Planned industrial action at CrossCountry by the RMT Union on Saturday 13 April has now been suspended.

Further information on timetables will be shared shortly. Please check journey planners before travelling.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Good news but with just 48 hours to go, surely it's too late to reinstate the timetable?

 

[robbeech]

I didn’t feel it was advertised particularly well in the first place, other than on their own website. NRE did show it, but not on the Industrial Action page, only on the travel updates page. I’m using a couple of XC services on Saturday. In a strange way it’ll actually be a bit disappointing if they change the timetable now even to improve it given people have journeys booked.

Good news but with just 48 hours to go, surely it's too late to reinstate the timetable?

Rather depends. If it benefits them they will.

 

[Undiscovered]

Good news but with just 48 hours to go, surely it's too late to reinstate the timetable?

Possibly. Depends on rostering rules. With our firm, it'd just be doable.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

It's the early finish that's the problem for me as I'll have to catch 3 trains to get from Oxford to Coventry! If any of those trains go wrong it's going to be a very late night for my five year old.

The fact they've said "further information on timetables will be shared shortly" gives me a bit of hope.

 

[rg177]

The message has now changed to: "Our teams are working hard to minimise disruption however we are unable to revert to a full timetable due to the timescales."

We'll have to see whether this means that it'll be a strike timetable or if there'll be some extra services slotted in where possible.

 

[1D54]

Train strikes called off after football warning​

Wolves supporters travelling to Nottingham Forest's City Ground would have been affected.
Train strikes that would have caused disruption for football fans in the Midlands have been called off.
Wolverhampton Wanderers supporters travelling to Nottingham Forest for the club's Premier League fixture were among those expected to be affected.
Members of the RMT trade union working for CrossCountry were due to walk out on Saturday.
National Rail issued on update on Thursday saying planned industrial action had been suspended.
"Further information on timetables will be updated shortly," its website read.
RMT said its members voted for strikes after the union was excluded from discussions with other trade unions regarding pay and policy matters.
It said it had paused the action after CrossCountry management agreed to intensive talks to resolve the dispute.
However, it said the strike mandate remained in place and future dates could be announced.

Courtesy of BBC Sport.

 

[507020]

Good news but with just 48 hours to go, surely it's too late to reinstate the timetable?

Can someone please explain to me why on strike days, the usual rosters are not retained as a backup that can be reverted to immediately in the event that industrial action is called off?

The strike day timetables are created in addition to existing timetables and whatever arrangements were in place for this Saturday before the strike was announced should not be discarded, in a sense of optimism that the strike will be called off.

Both sets of rosters should be maintained, with either able to be used on the day depending on the outcome of negotiations, if any.

I didn’t feel it was advertised particularly well in the first place, other than on their own website.

As someone who wants to travel from Sheffield to Birmingham, a journey I do not usually make, on Saturday, I was aware that XC were diverted via Leicester due to engineering works around North Stafford Junction, but only realised that this strike would mean the journey is possible, but using EMR and changing at Leicester.

Now I would like to assume that direct services will run as I was originally expecting, but am more uncertain than I was when the strike was going ahead.

Last time I checked, Google Maps was still showing direct services running via Leicester.

 

[Bald Rick]

Can someone please explain to me why on strike days, the usual rosters are not retained as a backup that can be reverted to immediately in the event that industrial action is called off?

Because rostering agreements require final rosters to be confirmed a certain number of days out.

 

[507020]

Because rostering agreements require final rosters to be confirmed a certain number of days out.

So 2 of these cannot be confirmed in parallel, with an agreement that one or the other will be chosen depending on whether the strike action is called off, to reduce inconvenience for passengers and increase the effectiveness of any productive negotiations.

For any striking staff members, who would not be working on the strike day, surely for it to be agreed what their roster is IF the strike is called off is what they would ordinarily be working, not changing anything for them.

I genuinely don’t understand why it is not the case that there are contingency arrangements in place to return to normality if strike action is called off.

Is there any word on what the XC Saturday timetable will be yet?

 

[Bald Rick]

For any striking staff members, who would not be working on the strike day, surely for it to be agreed what their roster is IF the strike is called off is what they would ordinarily be working, not changing anything for them.

Thats correct. In this case, RMT staff striking means that a special service is in place with contingency staff. The existing rosters for the grades RMT represent will stay in place. But drivers’ rosters will have been amended to the special timetable.

So 2 of these cannot be confirmed in parallel, with an agreement that one or the other will be chosen depending on whether the strike action is called off, to reduce inconvenience for passengers and increase the effectiveness of any productive negotiations.

No, they can’t, unless by special agreement. Given the state of current industrial relations, you can guess how likely such an agreement would be.

 

[muz379]

So 2 of these cannot be confirmed in parallel, with an agreement that one or the other will be chosen depending on whether the strike action is called off, to reduce inconvenience for passengers and increase the effectiveness of any productive negotiations.

Why would that be agreed to during a dispute by the grade/s in dispute ?

Taking away arguments about undermining another unions dispute . Why should other grades experience such flexibility with their rostering agreements for a dispute they aren't involved in ?

So basically Driver , because the RMT are on strike we want you to either come in at 04:00 or 07:00 , only we wont be able to tell you until the day before . Not gonna happen .

 

[507020]

Thats correct. In this case, RMT staff striking means that a special service is in place with contingency staff. The existing rosters for the grades RMT represent will stay in place. But drivers’ rosters will have been amended to the special timetable.

No, they can’t, unless by special agreement. Given the state of current industrial relations, you can guess how likely such an agreement would be.

Why would that be agreed to during a dispute by the grade/s in dispute ?

Taking away arguments about undermining another unions dispute . Why should other grades experience such flexibility with their rostering agreements for a dispute they aren't involved in ?

So basically Driver , because the RMT are on strike we want you to either come in at 04:00 or 07:00 , only we wont be able to tell you until the day before . Not gonna happen .

So I seem to have answered my own question in my previous wording. For grades involved in the strike, what I am suggesting may be reasonable, but not possible due to the involvement of other grades not involved in the dispute to run the service.

But when will it be worked out how much of a timetable XC will run south of Derby on Saturday? Is it just keep eyes glued to RTT until travelling?

On another point, even with action called off, if rosters cannot be reverted quickly enough, does this mean the timetable that runs will still use with contingency staff?

 

[hello]

It’s nothing to do with rostering as daily alteration sheets should be posted in the normal way as if the strike is not happening, the problem I think is that the company reduces the timetable as if the strike is going ahead and then when it gets called of last minute they are not allowed to put the full timetable back!

Ridiculous state of affairs, as I’m sure back in the day without all this modern timetabling technology, if a strike was called off the night before, everyone would be informed and would just be back to work as normal the next day

I suppose that’s modernisation for you! And they want more of it!

 

[Horizon22]

it’s nothing to do with rostering as daily alteration sheets should be posted in the normal way as if the strike is not happening, the problem I think is that the company reduces the timetable as if the strike is going ahead and then when it gets called of last minute they are not allowed to put the full timetable back!!!!!!! Ridiculous state of affairs as I’m sure back in the day without all this modern timetabling technology if strike was called off the night before, everyone would be informed and would just be back to work as normal the next day, I suppose that’s modernisation for you!!!!! And they want more of it!!!!!

Daily alterations sheets have been used for years. It's nothing to do with "modern timetabling technology" and more to do with advising drivers of shifts within a set period as per rostering rules (which are arguably not that 'modern'!)

It may still be possible of course.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

It’s not just crew diagrams that are a consideration, the stock diagrams are also planned days ahead which often gets overlooked when strike action gets pulled at the last night

Also in the case of cross country they need to apply to paths to run their trains and they may no longer be available

 

[Bald Rick]

the problem I think is that the company reduces the timetable as if the strike is going ahead and then when it gets called of last minute they are not allowed to put the full timetable back!!!!!!!

This is not true.

 

[Gloster]

My recollection of the system under BR when I briefly did guards’ rostering, although not with a strike, but did strike as a signalman is that everything kept as near normal as possible. Rosters (this was deciding which spare men would cover each turn that hadn’t got a rostered man) would go out normally, for the guards this was three days in advance, and if the strike was cancelled everyone just worked as booked. If the strike did go ahead, then the management and supervisors would be using such men that were still spare and ‘As directed’ in the mess rooms to move trains about so as to best get things prepared for when you restarted once the strike was over. Similarly, they would know which staff would be coming in as normal once things restarted and which spare men they had to fill in the gaps. There were still cancellations: if someone was due on at 23.59 at the end of the strike, you might not have a spare man to to cover parts of their shift: there might be a train in the wrong place, because the 23.59 man hadn’t been there to work it from A to B.

Staff cooperated with all this, even though we had been on strike, so long as the management kept within the Terms & Agreeements. Management were wise enough not to try and pull a fast one as this might lead to a future lack of cooperation. The attitude of (just about) all was generally that once the strike was over to try and get everything back to normal as quickly as possible. The same before the strike started: run as much as you can as late as you can.

 

[507020]

Under BR … management were wise enough not to try and pull a fast one

But would you say that current management, acting on behalf of either the DfT or Arriva, have tried to pull a fast one? The reason XC staff were to strike and no other company was cited as them not sticking to existing agreements.

 

[Class800]

Because rostering agreements require final rosters to be confirmed a certain number of days out.

Extremely inflexible - businesses need to be able to be demand-responsive, and never seen this issue elsewhere

 

[43066]

For any striking staff members, who would not be working on the strike day, surely for it to be agreed what their roster is IF the strike is called off is what they would ordinarily be working, not changing anything for them.

Is is changing something. At my depot, on the last ASLEF strike day, every single driver was marked up on the daily sheets as not at work. So if the strike had been called off with a few hours’ notice you’d have had people suddenly being expected in for the full range of shifts. It just isn’t feasible.

Extremely inflexible - businesses need to be able to be demand-responsive, and never seen this issue elsewhere

You don’t just pull people in to undertake safety critical duties such as driving trains at the drop of a hat, when they need to be properly rested, compliant with drug and alcohol policies etc. Well run, sensibly managed businesses also engage with their workforce to avoid strike action from arising in the first place.

 

[185143]

Is is changing something. The last ASLEF strike day every single driver was marked up on the daily sheets as not at work. So if the strike had been called off with a few hours’ notice you’d have had people suddenly being expected in for the full range of shifts. It just isn’t feasible.



You don’t just pull people in to undertake safety critical duties such as driving trains at the drop of a hat, when they need to be properly rested, compliant with drug and alcohol policies etc. Well run, sensibly managed businesses engage with their workforce to avoid strike action from arising in the first place.

At the risk of taking the thread off topic, what would then happen if someone decided they didn't want to strike, or wasn't in the Union, and wanted to break the strike and work as normal? How would they come in for their rostered shift if they effectively never had one?

 

[43066]

At the risk of taking the thread off topic, what would then happen if someone decided they didn't want to strike, or wasn't in the Union, and wanted to break the strike and work as normal? How would they come in for their rostered shift if they effectively never had one?

They wouldn’t be able to work as normal as no trains would be running, certainly at my TOC/depot. They’d presumably just end up sitting around in the depot!

I’ve never known it to happen, certainly throughout this dispute.

Edit: I’ve also edited my last post to make clear I’m referring to where I work - things may be different at those TOCs who run a skeleton service. Albeit, even here, these will be planned to be driven by managers rather than regular drivers, as the company won’t know how many will come in.

 

[dk1]

At the risk of taking the thread off topic, what would then happen if someone decided they didn't want to strike, or wasn't in the Union, and wanted to break the strike and work as normal? How would they come in for their rostered shift if they effectively never had one?

Just get told to sign on and stay at home in many cases. What’s the point of coming into work?

 

[Carlisle]

Also in the case of cross country they need to apply to paths to run their trains and they may no longer be available

That’s surely pretty unlikely unless a whole host of ad hoc train operator’s have sprung up very recently.

 

[northwichcat]

Why would that be agreed to during a dispute by the grade/s in dispute ?

Sounds like calling off the strike is a way of the union using a loophole to ensure their members get paid and don't have to work. (If the dispute is resolved at the last minute and no further action will be called it's a different matter).

Taking away arguments about undermining another unions dispute . Why should other grades experience such flexibility with their rostering agreements for a dispute they aren't involved in ?


So basically Driver , because the RMT are on strike we want you to either come in at 04:00 or 07:00 , only we wont be able to tell you until the day before . Not gonna happen .

So are train operators using strikes to cover shortages in the roster and reduce the availability of overtime? If not surely train drivers would be paid for their working day, even if there's no work for them. In which case no one outside the industry is going to care they don't want to plan to get up early in case they get a call saying stay at home for the day.

 

[ComUtoR]

Extremely inflexible - businesses need to be able to be demand-responsive, and never seen this issue elsewhere

Maybe a small selection of Zero hour contracts so that 'On Demand' working can be implemented ?

 

[muz379]

Extremely inflexible - businesses need to be able to be demand-responsive, and never seen this issue elsewhere

Even when I worked in retail which is renowned for not treating employees well . Once the roster was posted the week before it couldn't be changed without asking people , we had managers suggest and even try and change it but nobody was ever disciplined for not coming in for a shift that the previously posted roster had them as being off for . If anything when I came to work for a TOC I was subject to shorter notice for my rosters , the agreement was 48hrs , in practice we usually got the roster 3 days ahead . As for not having this issue elsewhere , not many other industries that move trains around so I doubt you would have seen that issue elsewhere .

Sounds like calling off the strike is a way of the union using a loophole to ensure their members get paid and don't have to work. (If the dispute is resolved at the last minute and no further action will be called it's a different matter).

This has been done to death on these forums in the past , its really not used in that way . And if the union did start to use it in that way then there are certain risks with that tactic . It isn't a popular thing to do among members to be honest .

Part of the reason we were told a full service couldn't be run last time a strike day was cancelled at short notice was because timetables could not be ammended/uploaded to industry systems . This is the modern approach that people want ...

So are train operators using strikes to cover shortages in the roster and reduce the availability of overtime? If not surely train drivers would be paid for their working day, even if there's no work for them. In which case no one outside the industry is going to care they don't want to plan to get up early in case they get a call saying stay at home for the day.

I dont know if this applies at Cross country , but some TOC's have used RMT strike days as an opportunity to mark a lot of drivers up to their briefing days , taking them off their booked work (as they can under agreements) and moving them to different book on times for briefing days . Once you have posted a roster reflecting this , unless agreements allow you cannot then change those previously posted rosters back to reflect what the actual timetable requires .

I am sure in the case of those tocs if the strike day for other grades is cancelled last minute then the drivers will still come in and get given parts of jobs that they can do within the hours they have been rostered to .

Doesn't really matter what people outside the indusry think , what matters is that rostering agreements are kept to . Otherwise you risk further worsening industrial relations .

 

[northwichcat]

I dont know if this applies at Cross country , but some TOC's have used RMT strike days as an opportunity to mark a lot of drivers up to their briefing days , taking them off their booked work (as they can under agreements) and moving them to different book on times for briefing days . Once you have posted a roster reflecting this , unless agreements allow you cannot then change those previously posted rosters back to reflect what the actual timetable requires .

I can certainly understand if drivers were told:

If there's no RMT strike - attend a 9-5 training session in Birmingham city centre.

If there's RMT strike - book on at Birmingham New Street at 6am.

Why drivers wouldn't be happy if the likely option changed at less than 48 hours notice.

 

[dk1]

I can certainly understand if drivers were told:

If there's no RMT strike - attend a 9-5 training session in Birmingham city centre.

If there's RMT strike - book on at Birmingham New Street at 6am.

Why drivers wouldn't be happy if the likely option changed at less than 48 hours notice.

That’s not how traincrew rostering works. What on earth are we going to do at this made up training session that is nowhere near our agreed rostered hours?