Yeoford station

[Halsebee]

Yeoford station is on the Tarka line to Barnstaple. The Okehampton branch which is run as an entirely separate line from Crediton onwards passes Yeoford station parallel with the Barnstaple line, but there is no platform. My question which is slightly esoteric is, do trains to Okehampton "pass through" Yeoford for the purposes of split ticketing? I realise given the service patterns and limited tickets offered, and the relative cheapness of tickets, that in the real world it is extraordinarily unlikely that a split would ever be feasible or worthwhile, but what are people's views on this given its a completely separate line and has no platform, but trains pass within a few feet of the station?

 

[williamn]

I think the train has to stop for split ticketing to be valid.

 

[Watershed]

I think the train has to stop for split ticketing to be valid.

When combining ordinary single/return tickets, yes. But when one (or both) of the tickets are season tickets, rangers or rovers, or other area-based or concessionary passes, non-stop splits are permitted.

In answer to the OP's question, I think if you're passing through immediately adjacent to a platform it's pretty clear that you are going via somewhere. There are plenty of stations with through lines, for instance. There's more ambiguity with the likes of Didcot, which have avoiding lines.

 

[The exile]

When combining ordinary single/return tickets, yes. But when one (or both) of the tickets are season tickets, rangers or rovers, or other area-based or concessionary passes, non-stop splits are permitted.

In answer to the OP's question, I think if you're passing through immediately adjacent to a platform it's pretty clear that you are going via somewhere. There are plenty of stations with through lines, for instance. There's more ambiguity with the likes of Didcot, which have avoiding lines.

It’s only going to be relevant for add ons to Yeoford season tickets. Can’t imagine many of those are sold…

 

[Starmill]

It’s only going to be relevant for add ons to Yeoford season tickets. Can’t imagine many of those are sold…

Yes, though Okehampton - Exeter Central season tickets for example may be relevant if the person wants to travel from Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple. Even then, though, Yeoford to Barnstaple only costs about £1 less than Crediton to Barnstaple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didcot's avoiding line is probably a better example of this. I think we concluded in another thread that it depended on whether the station was a timing point for the train or not.

 

[RPI]

I would say no, the okehampton line and the barny line are run as two single lines from Crediton, there is no platform on the Okehampton line and it isn't a station on the Okehampton line.

 

[Starmill]

I would say no, the okehampton line and the barny line are run as two single lines from Crediton, there is no platform on the Okehampton line and it isn't a station on the Okehampton line.

An argument based on operational separation will always come up against very odd conclusions though. Is Tamworth two stations that are both unrelated but just happen to be in the same place and have the same name? Or is it just one station with four different platforms?

 

[Haywain]

An argument based on operational separation will always come up against very odd conclusions though. Is Tamworth two stations that are both unrelated but just happen to be in the same place and have the same name? Or is it just one station with four different platforms?

I think the argument being presented is based on the fact that a train on the Okehampton line cannot call at Yeoford and therefore should not be regarded as passing through the station.

 

[The exile]

I think the argument being presented is based on the fact that a train on the Okehampton line cannot call at Yeoford and therefore should not be regarded as passing through the station.

And unlike the situation at Didcot with the avoider, no trains from Okehampton to Crediton (can) call at Yeoford so there is never the opportunity to make the Okehampton to Barnstaple journey by changing there rather than at Crediton. If the Okehampton line happened to pass under Yeoford in a tunnel, the question wouldn’t even arise.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think the argument being presented is based on the fact that a train on the Okehampton line cannot call at Yeoford and therefore should not be regarded as passing through the station.

A train on the fast lines at Tamworth can't call there. To all intents and purposes, the fast & slow limes on the WCML are run as two separate railways.

 

[The exile]

Maybe not, but a train calling at (say) Stafford and Rugby can (and several, but not all, do) so using Tamworth as a boundary between a season and an add on has a logic to it.

 

[SargeNpton]

Exeter-Okehampton services have no passing time at Yeoford, so as far as journey planners are concerned those trains do not run through it and won't offer split tickets at that station.

 

[RPI]

An argument based on operational separation will always come up against very odd conclusions though. Is Tamworth two stations that are both unrelated but just happen to be in the same place and have the same name? Or is it just one station with four different platforms?

I'd say the fact that no Okehampton to Crediton trains can physically call at yeoford would mean that a split ticket would be invalid, any Yeoford to Okehampton journey would be routed via Crediton

 

[Starmill]

I'd say the fact that no Okehampton to Crediton trains can physically call at yeoford would mean that a split ticket would be invalid, any Yeoford to Okehampton journey would be routed via Crediton

So you'd say a split is permitted at Pilning in one direction and not the other, because you can't physically call there in the other direction? That is an incredibly odd rule.

Exeter-Okehampton services have no passing time at Yeoford, so as far as journey planners are concerned those trains do not run through it and won't offer split tickets at that station.

An online journey planner wouldn't offer a split at any passing station though.

 

[Watershed]

Exeter-Okehampton services have no passing time at Yeoford, so as far as journey planners are concerned those trains do not run through it and won't offer split tickets at that station.

I don't think there are any sites that will currently offer non-stop splits. And in any event the existence (or otherwise) of a timing point in a schedule isn't determinitive as to whether you can split there. Coming back to our earlier example of Tamworth, it's not a timing point for trains that run through non-stop - yet nobody would suggest this means you can't do a non-stop split there.

At the end of the day, I would have said the existence of platforms or timing points, or indeed the signalling arrangements, are all red herrings. They are operational considerations that the average passenger cannot be expected to know about, and indeed which aren't referenced in the NRCoT or any other internal or public document.

What an average passenger can rely on is their own eyes, or the likes of Google Maps (other mapping services are available). Both would confirm that an Exeter to Okehampton train passes through Yeoford. Therefore I'd say a non-stop split is valid there.

I'd say the fact that no Okehampton to Crediton trains can physically call at yeoford would mean that a split ticket would be invalid

The only reason it can't call there is because there isn't a platform on the line used by Okehampton trains. I don't see how that changes anything; as we've established, using a non-platform line with the likes of Tamworth LL is absolutely fine on a non-stop split.

any Yeoford to Okehampton journey would be routed via Crediton

If only Okehampton trains called at Crediton, meaning you had to change at Newton St Cyres or Exeter to get from Okehampton to Barnstaple, would that change anything? I don't see that it would. The timetabled calling patterns aren't relevant to non-stop splits.

 

[Deafdoggie]

So you'd say a split is permitted at Pilling in one direction and not the other, because you can't physically call there in the other direction? That is an incredibly odd rule.


An online journey planner wouldn't offer a split at any passing station though.

Along with Polesworth of course too. What about Wedgwood and Barlaston?

 

[RPI]

I don't think there are any sites that will currently offer non-stop splits. And in any event the existence (or otherwise) of a timing point in a schedule isn't determinitive as to whether you can split there. Coming back to our earlier example of Tamworth, it's not a timing point for trains that run through non-stop - yet nobody would suggest this means you can't do a non-stop split there.

At the end of the day, I would have said the existence of platforms or timing points, or indeed the signalling arrangements, are all red herrings. They are operational considerations that the average passenger cannot be expected to know about, and indeed which aren't referenced in the NRCoT or any other internal or public document.

What an average passenger can rely on is their own eyes, or the likes of Google Maps (other mapping services are available). Both would confirm that an Exeter to Okehampton train passes through Yeoford. Therefore I'd say a non-stop split is valid there.


The only reason it can't call there is because there isn't a platform on the line used by Okehampton trains. I don't see how that changes anything; as we've established, using a non-platform line with the likes of Tamworth LL is absolutely fine on a non-stop split.


If only Okehampton trains called at Crediton, meaning you had to change at Newton St Cyres or Exeter to get from Okehampton to Barnstaple, would that change anything? I don't see that it would. The timetabled calling patterns aren't relevant to non-stop splits.

I would suggest that the Okehampton line does not pass through Yeoford station, being only one platform that is located on the Barnstaple branch, it depends how the station is defined, would Carnforth be valid for a split on the WCML?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would suggest that the Okehampton line does not pass through Yeoford station, being only one platform that is located on the Barnstaple branch, it depends how the station is defined, would Carnforth be valid for a split on the WCML?

Could you have a Manchester to Stone season ticket & book a Stone to Milton Keynes single ticket and travel on Avanti direct Manchester to Milton Keynes (via Stoke)?

 

[The exile]

Could you have a Manchester to Stone season ticket & book a Stone to Milton Keynes single ticket and travel on Avanti direct Manchester to Milton Keynes (via Stoke)?

If you can travel via “not Stafford” on a ticket valid via Stafford then logically yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would suggest that the Okehampton line does not pass through Yeoford station, being only one platform that is located on the Barnstaple branch, it depends how the station is defined, would Carnforth be valid for a split on the WCML?

I very much doubt it. Mainline trains don't seem to have it as a pass time.

 

[RPI]

I very much doubt it. Mainline trains don't seem to have it as a pass time.

I would say that Yeoford is the same.

 

[Watershed]

Could you have a Manchester to Stone season ticket & book a Stone to Milton Keynes single ticket and travel on Avanti direct Manchester to Milton Keynes (via Stoke)?

That's unambiguously valid since a Stone to Milton Keynes ticket is valid via Stoke, so you're not actually undertaking a non-stop split. With Carnforth it's the same principle as tickets to the north are generally valid via Lancaster.

In both cases there were historically platforms that have been closed, so even if tickets weren't valid via Stoke/Lancaster I would have said you are passing through the station. After all, the geography of the railway hasn't physically changed some those platforms closed.

In my eyes, the acid test would be whether there is any non-railway land between the line where the train passes through non-stop and the operational platforms. If not, then you are likely to be passing through regardless of the existence of platforms on the non-stop lines.

 

[Haywain]

Having looked at the relevant fares, this whole discussion is rather pointless as fares to Okehampton are priced exactly the same from Crediton as they are from Yeoford. The only possible saving from splitting is a matter of 50p/£1 (Single/Anytime Return) heading towards Barnstaple.

 

[Starmill]

I would say that Yeoford is the same.

But different to Pilning etc. because?

Having looked at the relevant fares, this whole discussion is rather pointless as fares to Okehampton are priced exactly the same from Crediton as they are from Yeoford. The only possible saving from splitting is a matter of 50p/£1 (Single/Anytime Return) heading towards Barnstaple.

Indeed but we established that in #5, and the discussion since then has focused on the principle, not the specific cases.

 

[TUC]

Exeter-Okehampton services have no passing time at Yeoford, so as far as journey planners are concerned those trains do not run through it and won't offer split tickets at that station.

How about ECML services that use the station avoiding line at Darlington? Services which don't stop there still show a passing time on RTT. Would that be sufficient to permit non-stop splits on season tickets, rangers, rovers, or other area-based or concessionary passes?

 

[gray1404]

How about ECML services that use the station avoiding line at Darlington? Services which don't stop there still show a passing time on RTT. Would that be sufficient to permit non-stop splits on season tickets, rangers, rovers, or other area-based or concessionary passes?

In the case of Darlington yes. The train is classed as passing through without stopping for the split ticket purposes you describe.

 

[RPI]

But different to Pilning etc. because?

I'd say it's different because Pilning is the up and down of the same line (but I'd say a split heading towards Cardiff wouldn't be valid as you can't catch a train there, but we digress), Yeoford is not a station stop on the Okehampton line, it's two single lines as opposed to double track.

 

[Starmill]

I'd say it's different because Pilning is the up and down of the same line (but I'd say a split heading towards Cardiff wouldn't be valid as you can't catch a train there, but we digress), Yeoford is not a station stop on the Okehampton line, it's two single lines as opposed to double track.

I give up. You're literally contradicting yourself within the same post here.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I give up. You're literally contradicting yourself within the same post here.

I've found it very confusing that Darlington, Stone, Tamworth, Polesworth & Pilning are all valid split points, but not Yeford!