York’s decommissioned platforms.

[alexl92]

Hopefully a simple question:
Why does York have a couple of bay platforms with no track in them? I’m thinking what was the old Plat 1 and previously plat 12 (now in the Harrogate bay)

I presume the answer is very simply that there is not sufficient demand for additional bay platforms to justify the expense of installing and maintaining the points and additional track work. Is that it or is there more to it?
Thanks in advance

 

[GardenRail]

Hopefully a simple question:
Why does York have a couple of bay platforms with no track in them? I’m thinking what was the old Plat 1 and previously plat 12 (now in the Harrogate bay)

I presume the answer is very simply that there is not sufficient demand for additional bay platforms to justify the expense of installing and maintaining the points and additional track work. Is that it or is there more to it?
Thanks in advance

In a nutshell you're correct. British Rail rationalisation. From an age when the railways were dying.

 

[Railsigns]

For the record, Britain's railways were not in overall decline when those surplus-to-requirements bay platforms were abolished during the York layout remodelling in the late 1980s.

 

[William3000]

If all bays had track reintroduced - how many platforms would there be? 14?

 

[class 9]

There's only 2 that could reasonably reinstated, the one's adjacent to Platforms 1 & 8.

 

[jamiearmley]

Reinstating the one adjacent to platform 8 would help keep a through platform clear instead of being blocked by a Harrogate unit on layover, and would have the additional advantage of all Harrogate services going from one of 2 tracks in the same bay.

Not the biggest priority, obviously, but certainly should be higher up the spending list than many other projects which get greenlighted.

 

[IanXC]

Reinstating the one adjacent to platform 8 would help keep a through platform clear instead of being blocked by a Harrogate unit on layover, and would have the additional advantage of all Harrogate services going from one of 2 tracks in the same bay.

Not the biggest priority, obviously, but certainly should be higher up the spending list than many other projects which get greenlighted.

Except that you couldn't timetable xx11/xx42 arrival into a bay platform sharing a single lead with another bay platform with an xx/12xx43 departure.

Interestingly the usage of platform 8 is likely to reduce going forward when the new York Independent line is constructed, due to the conflicts with other traffic.

 

[jamiearmley]

Except that you couldn't timetable xx11/xx42 arrival into a bay platform sharing a single lead with another bay platform with an xx/12xx43 departure.

Interestingly the usage of platform 8 is likely to reduce going forward when the new York Independent line is constructed, due to the conflicts with other traffic.

Yeah, that's an issue I hadn't considered

 

[eman_resu]

Except that you couldn't timetable xx11/xx42 arrival into a bay platform sharing a single lead with another bay platform with an xx/12xx43 departure.

Interestingly the usage of platform 8 is likely to reduce going forward when the new York Independent line is constructed, due to the conflicts with other traffic.

Is there any detail on the new York Independent line?

Brief look on the internet didnt turn anything up.

 

[507020]

the new York Independent line

What’s that? If it’s anything like the Crewe Independent line, they are digging a tunnel under the station for avoiding traffic?

Or is this just the provision of a centre non-platform track through the middle of the station?

 

[hwl]

What’s that? If it’s anything like the Crewe Independent line, they are digging a tunnel under the station for avoiding traffic?

Or is this just the provision of a centre non-platform track through the middle of the station?

A (reversible) line to the west to keep Harrogate trains off the "fasts" till Skelton Jn.

 

[zwk500]

Except that you couldn't timetable xx11/xx42 arrival into a bay platform sharing a single lead with another bay platform with an xx/12xx43 departure.

1 minute arrive to depart margin on platform ends at York, so yes you could. It's already done with 6/7 at York - 5V46 Holbeck Sidings - York booked arrive p.6 at 0611, 1B15 York - Blackpool North booked depart p.7 at 0612.

 

[30907]

1 minute arrive to depart margin on platform ends at York, so yes you could. It's already done with 6/7 at York - 5V46 Holbeck Sidings - York booked arrive p.6 at 0611, 1B15 York - Blackpool North booked depart p.7 at 0612.

True, but would you choose to do that with trains off the Harrogate line? Might work better with the 3rd track.
And 5V46 isn't exactly time-critical (forms 0645!)

 

[zwk500]

True, but would you choose to do that with trains off the Harrogate line? Might work better with the 3rd track.
And 5V46 isn't exactly time-critical (forms 0645!)

It's always a value judgement - plenty of busy stations use the 1 minute margin quite happily throughout the day. But yes, both these points are very valid.

I'd say running the arriving train straight into the platform using the 3rd line and then letting the departure be given a clear road onto the Single Line is probably better for all than trying to balance the junction margins at Skelton and York with trains departing 3/4 minutes ahead of the inbound train to clear the single lead.
The other thing to consider with the bay platform is that it wouldn't have direct access to the depot (as 8 doesn't at the moment) so there'd still be some occassions when services will need to use 9/10/11.

 

[Ianigsy]

Hopefully a simple question:
Why does York have a couple of bay platforms with no track in them? I’m thinking what was the old Plat 1 and previously plat 12 (now in the Harrogate bay)

I presume the answer is very simply that there is not sufficient demand for additional bay platforms to justify the expense of installing and maintaining the points and additional track work. Is that it or is there more to it?
Thanks in advance

In pre-electrification days there would probably also have been more need to stable locos and stock around - parcels traffic, spare locos for the main line and any booked loco changes. Some of those bays would also have been used in steam days to release locos from incoming services.

 

[rower40]

The exam sidings (parallel to, and east of, platform 2) could also become a platform face. But that would only serve the Scarborough branch, for which platforms 2 and 4 are adequate. And it would also entail the loss of a lot of car parking space.

 

[deltic08]

In a nutshell you're correct. British Rail rationalisation. From an age when the railways were dying.

Not strictly correct. The present platform 8 was used by hourly Harrogate trains. The adjacent bay platform now devoid of track was the bay that York-Darlington trains ran from. These trains served Thirsk and Northallerton.
Now TPE serve Thirsk and Northallerton with through trains to Saltburn and Northallerton is additionally served by Liverpool-Newcastle trains and LNER trains.
Harrogate-York is now 2 tph and there is an overlap on Harrogate trains wanting to use platform 8. It would be ideal to be able to reinstate the platform adjacent to 8 but 3 electrification stanchions need removing, signal resiting, placement of turnout for new platform, a length of plain track and new signal for entry to and from new platform. not cheap.
A new dedicated third track from Skelton Jnc to York station would also help as it can be very congested at times using only two tracks north of the station.