York Station Rip-Off

[Western Sunset]

I'm probably a bit thick, but as I understand it from said sign; the following parking session is charged at the full day rate. Now they state it as £17, but the full day rate for a Sat is £5.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The long weekend one is confusing though! Says it must be purchased in advance then tells you to park up and go and pay!

 

[yorkie]

The long weekend one is confusing though! Says it must be purchased in advance then tells you to park up and go and pay!

I think they mean in advance of train travel (but in this context "advance" could be just a minute before boarding the train!) but after arriving by car and after parking.

I'm tempted to ask some people this as a quiz question, but so far I am not sure of the definitive answers myself.

Can anyone tell me what happens if you do these things:

1. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Saturday at 2300 (without purchasing a Long Weekend ticket)
2. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Sunday at 2300 (without purchasing a Long Weekend ticket)
3. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Tuesday morning at 0010 (having been delayed into York by an hour on the 2309 LNER arrival from London, and having purchased a Long Weekend ticket)

I have to say this is all so typical of LNER (and all franchise holders before them) both in terms of the charging regime itself, and of course the response they gave to the customer.

 

[Western Sunset]

So if you wanted to park just on a Friday, but from before 9.30am, could you purchase the Weekend ticket and save £5?

 

[yorkie]

So if you wanted to park just on a Friday, but from before 9.30am, could you purchase the Weekend ticket and save £5?

There isn't anything to say you can't "finish short", i.e. no minimum stay specified, so yes I think so! However I suspect many people don't spot that, so overpay.

In all honesty the vast majority of people who use the car park will, as I said earlier, be wealthy or on expenses (or both) and so wail generally not be fussed how much they are charged. LNER know this and are maximising revenue.

If someone complains (like the original poster did), then LNER realises that person isn't part of their target market so aren't interested in doing anything other than telling them to go away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There isn't anything to say you can't "finish short", i.e. no minimum stay specified, so yes I think so! However I suspect many people don't spot that, so overpay.

It does look a bit like a "laziness tax" aimed at said business travellers and rich people. A bit like the way some online businesses have relatively high default prices but have a discount code on the front page almost all of the time (Glasses Direct do this, for one).

 

[alistairlees]

The clarity of the information does look terrible. Can anyone post the exact text or a hi res picture? I can’t read the smallest text on the Google street view image. I have no idea how drivers are meant to process all of that when they are entering the car park; especially when there are other cars behind!

So if you wanted to park just on a Friday, but from before 9.30am, could you purchase the Weekend ticket and save £5?

I was thinking this too. It’s very unclear though

 

[Haywain]

My understanding is that the long weekend rate only applies after 0930 on Friday. As I don’t drive I have never paid much attention to how the parking rates work.

 

[Western Sunset]

"Long Weekend" valid anytime Friday, so says said sign.

Clear signage should be unambiguous. From all our differing interpretations, this ain't clear signage...

 

[alistairlees]

I think they mean in advance of train travel (but in this context "advance" could be just a minute before boarding the train!) but after arriving by car and after parking.

I'm tempted to ask some people this as a quiz question, but so far I am not sure of the definitive answers myself.

Can anyone tell me what happens if you do these things:

1. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Saturday at 2300 (without purchasing a Long Weekend ticket)
2. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Sunday at 2300 (without purchasing a Long Weekend ticket)
3. Park on a Friday after 0930 and depart on a Tuesday morning at 0010 (having been delayed into York by an hour on the 2309 LNER arrival from London, and having purchased a Long Weekend ticket)

I have to say this is all so typical of LNER (and all franchise holders before them) both in terms of the charging regime itself, and of course the response they gave to the customer.

1. £34
2. £51
3. Unclear; possibly £29.

I see there are also different durations to consider in their pricing:
- "24 hours" - appears to be a rolling concept, can end at any time
- "day" - appears to have a fixed end of either 23.59 or 04.29; quite possibly it is both (simultaneously)

 

[Western Sunset]

This is getting rather like Bingo - think of a number...

 

[CyrusWuff]

I see there are also different durations to consider in their pricing:
- "24 hours" - appears to be a rolling concept, can end at any time
- "day" - appears to have a fixed end of either 23.59 or 04.29; quite possibly it is both (simultaneously)

When selling parking at a Ticket Office using the Ticket Issuing System that LNER use, there are three different options that an admin can choose for expiry when setting prices:

• End of day - Prints as 23:59 on the ticket
• 24 hours - From time of issue (multiple days are possible
• Specific time - What it suggests. So could be used instead of "End of day" to set it to 02:29 (or 04:29) if desired.

Given the admin has full control over what products are created, there's nothing preventing them from creating a "Mixed" rate with one day charged at Peak rate and one day at Off-Peak.

Sadly I suspect the machines used in the car parks themselves don't have that level of granularity, hence the default of charging the Peak rate if you don't leave by the end of the day.

 

[Wallsendmag]

My understanding is that the long weekend rate only applies after 0930 on Friday. As I don’t drive I have never paid much attention to how the parking rates work.

Unfortunately I have. To qualify for the off peak you can only park between the hours stated. If you stay longer you pay the daily rate. The weekend rate starts at 0930 on a Friday and covers you until Monday.

 

[pitdiver]

My wife had reason to contact Terry Leahy the ex CEO of Tesco. Within 30 mins her problem had been resolvedvia a phone call from his " Executive Assistant"

 

[Western Sunset]

My wife had reason to contact Terry Leahy the ex CEO of Tesco. Within 30 mins her problem had been resolved including a phone call from his " Executive Assistant"

Same with us with BT - ended-up being on a first name basis with 'em.

Unfortunately I have. To qualify for the off peak you can only park between the hours stated. If you stay longer you pay the daily rate. The weekend rate starts at 0930 on a Friday and covers you until Monday.

But on said sign, it explicitly states that the Long Weekend is "valid any time Friday to 23.59 Monday". Am I misreading it?

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

But that isn't what it says.

"Mon to Fri off Peak. £5.00 Valid from 09:30 - must depart before 04:29 the following day."

You didn't leave before 04:29 so you were charged according to the contract you accepted by parking there.

You can view the sign here.

Interesting - then the sign has changed. Perhaps my complaint had some impact then (kind of accepts that the original sign - which I was quoting - was misleading, but rather than apologise they changed the sign without bothering to say)

 

[Western Sunset]

So are we all discussing different signs? Yours, confused...

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

Yes that's my question.

It sounds like the peak price was charged on Thursday under the same circumstances but is unclear if the same would occur on a Friday.

This would be a similar concept to split faring when using smart cards such as Oyster/Contactless PAYG where it can be cheaper to tap out and back in again.

If the higher price is charged, you can get around it by "splitting" the fare which can be achieved by driving out and then immediately back in again.

Perhaps there is an opportunity for a company based near the station to arrange for people to drop off their car keys to them, and during the night, they could move cars out and back in again, thus incurring the cheaper rate

I like the flexible thinking ... then one could envisage a situation when the car only moved 'virtually'. In this I would arrange to pay for the one day car parking and get someone to get a new ticket for the next day. Unfortunately the world is full of people with better things to do that game the system (like the fact that we came back from Plymouth with 7 different tickets and therefore saved I think about £100 compared to a couple of singles), companies rely on this a lot of the time (is it cheaper to go to Aldi, Tesco, Sainsbury, Waitrose - no probably not - for different items?).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the flexible thinking ... then one could envisage a situation when the car only moved 'virtually'. In this I would arrange to pay for the one day car parking and get someone to get a new ticket for the next day. Unfortunately the world is full of people with better things to do that game the system (like the fact that we came back from Plymouth with 7 different tickets and therefore saved I think about £100 compared to a couple of singles), companies rely on this a lot of the time (is it cheaper to go to Aldi, Tesco, Sainsbury, Waitrose - no probably not - for different items?).

It is actually, unlike banning split ticketing, legal to penalise for "meter feeding" in this way. Legal precedent protects split ticketing, but not this.

 

[yorkie]

So are we all discussing different signs? Yours, confused...

Does anyone have a copy of the previous sign and the new sign?

Also did the logic / rules actually change or was it the case that the old sign was deemed misleading?

If anyone can post the details in text format as well as an image that would be great (the forum is read by blind people who may not be able to read text contained within images)

 

[Wallsendmag]

Same with us with BT - ended-up being on a first name basis with 'em.


But on said sign, it explicitly states that the Long Weekend is "valid any time Friday to 23.59 Monday". Am I misreading it?

The times changed when the new ANPR system was introduced, unfortunately not one of the systems we look after so I don't know if it's installed in York yet.

 

[talldave]

Does anyone have a copy of the previous sign and the new sign?

Also did the logic / rules actually change or was it the case that the old sign was deemed misleading?

If anyone can post the details in text format as well as an image that would be great (the forum is read by blind people who may not be able to read text contained within images)

If the signs are visible on Google Street View, you can go back in time on desktop browser versions.

 

[Western Sunset]

Rates currently on the National Rail website:
Daily £17.50
Off-peak £6.75
Sat £6.75
Sun £6.75
Long Weekend rate (1000 Fri - 1400 Mon) £12

So I make it that the cheapest would be £36.25 (£6.75 Thu, £17.50 Fri and £12 Weekend). This is from the website; the signage might differ... No mention on website about having to leave in the early hours after the Thurs.

 

[SussexMan]

Interesting - then the sign has changed. Perhaps my complaint had some impact then (kind of accepts that the original sign - which I was quoting - was misleading, but rather than apologise they changed the sign without bothering to say)

The sign I posted was from Jan 2021 but had been there since at least Aug 2019. There is a previous one which can be viewed but that wouldn't be relevant to this issue.

 

[MotCO]

One other combination I don't think anyone has mentioned is that anyone parking on a Monday before 9.30 would be charged £17.00....unless you buy the Long Weekend ticket where you would only be charged £12.00.

 

[Wallsendmag]

One other combination I don't think anyone has mentioned is that anyone parking on a Monday before 9.30 would be charged £17.00....unless you buy the Long Weekend ticket where you would only be charged £12.00.

I think the Long Weekend is only available if you arrive on Fri/Sat /Sun

The sign I posted was from Jan 2021 but had been there since at least Aug 2019. There is a previous one which can be viewed but that wouldn't be relevant to this issue.

They've been superseeded now

 

[Haywain]

I think the Long Weekend is only available if you arrive on Fri/Sat /Sun

I am sure that’s correct.

 

[Titfield]

Interesting - then the sign has changed. Perhaps my complaint had some impact then (kind of accepts that the original sign - which I was quoting - was misleading, but rather than apologise they changed the sign without bothering to say)

I note the use of the word misleading. I wonder if the original signage was replaced not because it was "misleading" (which I have always thought meant some form of intent) but because it was "ambiguous" (without intent)?

I cant help but feel that this issue is similar to many of the fare queries where a complex system seems inevitably to lead to dissatisfaction because the more complex the system the greater the probability of an incorrect fare being purchased.

 

[Western Sunset]

It'd be interesting to see the current signage and see if this agrees with the info on the National Rail listing for York, which I mentioned in post #53.

 

[Deafdoggie]

My wife had reason to contact Terry Leahy the ex CEO of Tesco. Within 30 mins her problem had been resolvedvia a phone call from his " Executive Assistant"

Yeah. The customer service team that deal with CEO stuff have fancy titles to make the customer seem important. I was "chairman's office management team" but I was identical in every way to the person at the next desk who was a "customer service advisor" it's just they got normal calls & I got CEO calls. It wasn't unknown for me to get someone they had spoken to moment's before but had been unimpressed! They always used to slip me a wink if reading out head office number to them so they could call the chairman! Knowing my headset would ping in a minute.