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You can build three tunnels...

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Killingworth

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PacerFacer said:
Under the Humber
Distance bank to bank: 2km
Grimsby, Scunthorpe and Lincoln don't have direct access to Hull. That'd be nice.
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It would be nice, but an opportunity has already been missed there. The Humber Tunnel was completed last year; Celebrating the completion of the Humber Tunnel They got on with that so quietly the rest of the country never noticed.
Halifaxlad said:
3) A tunnel West of Sheffield running all the way under Manchester before rejoining the national rail network on the West side of Manchester. A completely through underground E-W station to serve Manchester along it.
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Non-stop Sheffield - Manchester totally underground in 20 minutes, although it might have a deep station under Glossop. Then a north-south tunnel to intersect below Manchester to get high speed trains right into the centre rather than dragging along Victorian suburban configurations with conflicts almost every mile, the new tracks weaving in and out to avoid any crossovers.
 
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xotGD

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South Shields to North Shields on the Metro

Isle of Grain to Southend

Heysham to the Isle of Man
 
E

EastisECML

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1) Manchester Piccadilly - Leeds (sub surface station) - HS2 (near Garforth) with Bradford to Huddersfield tunnel as part of the same structure.

2) Berwick to (via inland route) Edinburgh - Edinburgh Airport - Perth/Dundee

3) Birmingham HS2 branch - Curzon Street (sub surface station) - Wolverhampton with a branch to Bromsgrove (I'm considering this part of the same tunnel super structure)

Bonus tunnel request: Extension of the Hazel Grove to Newtown tunnel to Abbeygate in Sheffield.
 
PTR 444

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1) Fratton to Ryde St John’s

2) Fawley to Cowes

3) Lymington to Freshwater
 
Dr_Paul

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Ebbsfleet to Wembley (or maybe a bit north of Watford), to enable freight services from Europe to get to the WCML without having to wend their way through Dartford > Brixton > Willesden Junction. (Not sure how Ashford > Ebbsfleet would need to be modified to ensure that freight services don't delay passenger services.)
 
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PacerFacer said:
Hi there. I'm a lurker on this forum, and most definitely don't have any level of expertise when it comes to engineering or train operations. For that reason, I definitely favour the more blindly optimistic areas of speculative changes, although I think as long you acknowledge that you're operating in that space then that's OK?

Anyway, I've enjoyed the broader threads in this section (what are your general ideas for X etc), so I thought I'd kick one off.

The premise: a genie that specialises in very specific infrastructure wishes has granted you the chance to build three tunnels on the UK rail network. They have to be tunnels of relative substance (the genie frowns upon, but doesn't outright disallow, dive-unders) and be theoretically possible. The genie is also bored of London Underground designs, so those are out. It will also hear you out if you want to add a bonus international tunnel for the sheer thrill of it.

To start off, I decided to theme mine around getting across water (city centre crossrails are probably more useful, but they're also pretty heavily discussed on here). In no particular order...

Under the mouth of Portsmouth Habour
Distance coast to coast: 650m
Brings Gosport onto the network, and if you can find a route through could potentially offer a faster route to Southampton (that might be a challenge though).

Under the Humber
Distance bank to bank: 2km
Grimsby, Scunthorpe and Lincoln don't have direct access to Hull. That'd be nice.

Under the Dee
Distance coast to coast: 8.9km
A nice scheme for devolved government across the mouth of the Dee. Allows direct access from the north Wales coast into Liverpool without trundling into/changing at Chester. Could be a built to a specification that allowed for access to HS3 trains should a tunnel to Dublin ever be built in the far far future. Might require a second tunnel under the Mersey though.

I did consider proposing a tunnel from Weston-Super-Mare into Cardiff (13.8km) but that seems the most difficult/of least benefit. Plus the genie is very strict.

Anyway, have at it.
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How about a new metro tunnel, North to South Shields?
 
py_megapixel

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Tunnel all the way under Manchester, with at least a couple of dozen tracks. This should replace pretty much all of the current city centre rail infrastructure - the current Castlefield corridor should be converted into a high-frequency metro service of some kind, possibly also taking the opportunity to actually send trams down Oxford Road, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Station at surface level roughly where current Piccadilly is, but massively expanded and possibly with multiple levels of platforms. Basically just demolish and start again. Not that there's much wrong with the current Picc trainshed, it's just too small.
 
HSTEd

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Best guess is you need two RER lines under Manchester to completely replace all local/commuter trains, with ease.

Once thats done the relict intercity can be concentrated onto whichever terminal is most convenient.
 
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py_megapixel said:
Tunnel all the way under Manchester, with at least a couple of dozen tracks. This should replace pretty much all of the current city centre rail infrastructure - the current Castlefield corridor should be converted into a high-frequency metro service of some kind, possibly also taking the opportunity to actually send trams down Oxford Road, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Station at surface level roughly where current Piccadilly is, but massively expanded and possibly with multiple levels of platforms. Basically just demolish and start again. Not that there's much wrong with the current Picc trainshed, it's just too small.
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How big do you think Piccadilly should be? I’ve always felt that Victoria, Salford Central (with additional platforms), Salford Crescent, Deansgate, Oxford Road and Piccadilly P13/14 should form the basis of a metro network.
 
HSTEd

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Purple Orange said:
How big do you think Piccadilly should be? I’ve always felt that Victoria, Salford Central (with additional platforms), Salford Crescent, Deansgate, Oxford Road and Piccadilly P13/14 should form the basis of a metro network.
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barcelona-2-line-9-station[1].jpeg
The Barcelona Metro solution would put the platforms themselves in the tunnel bores that the tracks run in, so you only need the access works to be built in the conventional manner.

The access works are dependent only on the number of entries and exits, and Manchester Picadilly (excluding Metrolink) has a comparable number to a station on the tube.

That station is the Oval, hardly a paragon of mass use.
 
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HSTEd said:
The Barcelona Metro solution would put the platforms themselves in the tunnel bores that the tracks run in, so you only need the access works to be built in the conventional manner.

The access works are dependent only on the number of entries and exits, and Manchester Picadilly (excluding Metrolink) has a comparable number to a station on the tube.

That station is the Oval, hardly a paragon of mass use.
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Does really Manchester need an underground station to replace Piccadilly? Or if an underground line is built, should it not be integrated with metrolink and it become something akin to the Tyne & Wear metro?
 
HSTEd

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Purple Orange said:
Does really Manchester need an underground station to replace Piccadilly? Or if an underground line is built, should it not be integrated with metrolink and it become something akin to the Tyne & Wear metro?
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Why can't it do all of the above?

The RER, Crossrail and to a lesser extent Thameslink demonstrate just how blurry the line between metro and commuter line is.

Assuming tram-trains could be built with a standardised door layout there is no reason they couldn't operate into a heavy rail tunnel as required.

But you can't really have a tram to Southport or Blackburn or Macclesfield, which I believe should be the ultimate objective of such a scheme.
 
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Purple Orange

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HSTEd said:
Why can't it do all of the above?

The RER, Crossrail and to a lesser extent Thameslink demonstrate just how blurry the line between metro and commuter line is.

Assuming tram-trains could be built with a standardised door layout there is no reason they couldn't operate into a heavy rail tunnel as required.

But you can't really have a tram to Southport or Blackburn or Macclesfield, which I believe should be the ultimate objective of such a scheme.
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Yet the existing lines on the viaducts could do the job of a metro network (more akin to the district line), reaching out to Blackpool and Crewe etc. That is without tunnelling for NPR or HS2.
 
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I'm going to go for something stupidly big and will spend my three wishes on a transatlantic tunnel.
 
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ABB125 said:
Is there much demand for travel between the UK and the Faroes/Iceland? I'm not convinced myself, but this is after all a speculative thread!
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Haha. Iceland is very popular, but the Faroes are not often visited at all. I've done it myself, though, and I can highly recommend going. Odd mashup between Scotland and Denmark. :)
 
Killingworth

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OK, if we're now in the realms ot total phantasy;

1. Thurso - Orkneys.
2. Orkneys - Shetland
3. Shetland - Bergen

To close the Northern part of a North Sea circle.
 
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