Your Vote Matters Confusion.

[GrimsbyPacer]

Okay this will take a while to explain.

In December/January-ish I got a letter from the council called "Your Vote Matters". It said I have to fill it in or they would steal £80 from me if I don't. It also said I should recieve the electoral list for the house to confirm it.
I didn't fill it in as I registered last election like others I know who didn't get this threatening letter. And I don't take any notice of threats at all.

Anyway a few weeks later a list showing who's in my house was sent asking me to confirm it. As I expected it showed me as being registered to vote so there was no point in me filling the other letter out anway. Although my poor old Mum lost her vote now sadly.

Now today I went for lunch with my sister and got back home to find an opened envelope in front of my door.
There was a card saying "you were out" and a letter saying:

"we recently wrote to you..blah blah blah ((about voting stuff)... You need to provide us with this information; if you don't you could be fined £80. Please send us this information by 28 March 2015."

It has 11 March 2015 below my address. Council must be very slow!

But why me? Why isn't my Mum or Sister for example getting these threats of fines? Why should I get fined anyway?
I'm on the electoral list anyway and it's been confirmed so I won't lose my vote as it says. And how can I send something on Marth the 28th?

Am I the only one with these "Your Vote Matters" letters which don't corrolate with other infomation sent?
I think these apparently targeted letters may influence the election.
Surrly either everyone or no one should get these, otherwise some won't be able to vote where others can. I know if I wasn't on the list(which I am) I would never fill this out anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

Not sure about that. I was only aware of the annual registration form. Might be worth contacting electoral services at your Council to find out.

 

[telstarbox]

GOV.UK says:

What happens if you don’t register
You must register to vote if you’re asked to do so and you meet the conditions for registering, eg you’re 16 or over and you’re British or a national of an EU or Commonwealth country.

If you’re asked to register and don’t do so, your local Electoral Registration Office could fine you £80.

You won’t be fined if you have a valid reason for not registering, eg a long stay in hospital, or you have severe learning difficulties.

The voter registration system has changed so you might not be registered even if you think you are - if in doubt, register online anyway and then you'll definitely be on the register. The deadline is 20 April 2015.

 

[DarloRich]

Okay this will take a while to explain.

In December/January-ish I got a letter from the council called "Your Vote Matters". It said I have to fill it in or they would steal £80 from me if I don't. It also said I should recieve the electoral list for the house to confirm it.
I didn't fill it in as I registered last election like others I know who didn't get this threatening letter. And I don't take any notice of threats at all.

Anyway a few weeks later a list showing who's in my house was sent asking me to confirm it. As I expected it showed me as being registered to vote so there was no point in me filling the other letter out anway. Although my poor old Mum lost her vote now sadly.

Now today I went for lunch with my sister and got back home to find an opened envelope in front of my door.
There was a card saying "you were out" and a letter saying:

"we recently wrote to you..blah blah blah ((about voting stuff)... You need to provide us with this information; if you don't you could be fined £80. Please send us this information by 28 March 2015."

It has 11 March 2015 below my address. Council must be very slow!

But why me? Why isn't my Mum or Sister for example getting these threats of fines? Why should I get fined anyway?
I'm on the electoral list anyway and it's been confirmed so I won't lose my vote as it says. And how can I send something on Marth the 28th?

Am I the only one with these "Your Vote Matters" letters which don't corrolate with other infomation sent?
I think these apparently targeted letters may influence the election.
Surrly either everyone or no one should get these, otherwise some won't be able to vote where others can. I know if I wasn't on the list(which I am) I would never fill this out anyway.

there is something that doesn't quite add up there

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I've taken a picture of it. And know for certain I am on the electoral roll.
Notice the sending date top right.
As it says it's a reminder of the first one I got which also only had my name and not other family members.
Can I be fined for not being double registered? As I'm on the list but getting £80 fines threatened.
I think this is ridiculous.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you received a letter in about October last year that was under the old system, where one member of a household would register everyone in that household.

The system changed at the end of last year. Each person in a household must now register to vote individually; this can be done online or by post. It is quicker online, but I resented being threatened with an £80 fine, so I registered the expensive way.

Some voters were automatically transferred on to the new system, and some had to re-register. It may be that you were automatically transferred but other members of your household were not, so you'll continue to get the letters. I'd suggest you give the council a call to clarify whether you are registered or not.

You shouldn't be receiving any letters mentioning the registration of other people in your household.

 

[Hornet]

I had one as I have had a postal vote for many years, as I live in the ROI. Was sent to the UK address where my folks still reside. Went ballistic on the phone to the council official whose phone number was on the letter for a) not sending my letter to my postal vote address and b) threatening me with a fine for not registering, (I've voted since I was legally entitled to). The official implied that the fine would not be implemented even if I didn't register, (make of that what you will). Filled the form out for my postal vote and registration, with a letter to tell them to send my confirmation to my ROI address. Confirmation letter sent telling me that my registration was successful, but to the UK address. (Council Officials are like Customer Services. They don't understand a basic request, and have not got a functioning brain cell between them). Cue another ballistic phone call questioning their competence to hold a pen, let alone whether they could read. Will wait now to see if my postal vote turns up. Hope it does as I will be in my folks a couple of days before the election, and I seriously do not want to go to the local council office in person to personally point out their incompetence.

 

[me123]

Some voters were automatically transferred on to the new system, and some had to re-register. It may be that you were automatically transferred but other members of your household were not, so you'll continue to get the letters. I'd suggest you give the council a call to clarify whether you are registered or not.

I'm assuming that this is an English thing, since I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened in Scotland?

Regardless, it's pretty unacceptable to threaten people with fines for not registering if they are being removed from the register automatically. It's nothing they've done wrong. In fact, it's pretty unacceptable to remove them from the register full stop, and is an affront to democracy. I'd expect to remain registered at my address until I move house, and I would expect to be eligible to vote in each and every election until that time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Regardless, it's pretty unacceptable to threaten people with fines for not registering if they are being removed from the register automatically. It's nothing they've done wrong. In fact, it's pretty unacceptable to remove them from the register full stop, and is an affront to democracy.

No, the fine was threatened for not registering to vote and providing the information. This was the same whether you were already on the electoral roll or not.

People were automatically transferred when the council were certain you were still at that address. People were not automatically transferred when the council were not, e.g. people in rental properties or people who had recently moved to the area. I wasn't transferred automatically because I've basically been moving every six months for the last two years, but my parents were automatically transferred as they owned their house.

I don't agree with the fine, though. It should be a democratic right to refuse to participate. But we're seeing more and more of this police state creeping in. The fine for not completing the Census is £1000, and the Office for National Statistics thought it appropriate to prosecute 400 people for this offence. That is disgraceful.

I'm assuming that this is an English thing, since I'm pretty sure this hasn't happened in Scotland?

Nope, the law changed in Scotland too.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...to-huge-drop-in-scots-voter-numbers.116458663

 

[DarloRich]

....... But we're seeing more and more of this police state creeping in.......

Are you sure? Because the next stage for failing to fill in the census will be summary imprisonment, beating with rubber truncheons, electrocution, water boarding and ultimately being disappeared wont it :roll:

The census and voting are important civic duties: the results of the census play an important part in the calculation of resource allocation by the Government, the devolved assemblies and the EU while voting decides ( in some way) who pays for those services and how they are delivered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BTW the Criminal Offence associated with the census dates back to 1920. I ma not sure Lloyd George could ever be considered part of the police state!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are you sure? Because the next stage for failing to fill in the census will be summary imprisonment, beating with rubber truncheons, electrocution, water boarding and ultimately being disappeared wont it :roll:

Huh?

If you think a "police state" is just about torture then you're being rather naive.

Voting and census-completion may or may not be "civic duties" (whatever that means), but failure to tell the Government about your personal details shouldn't be a criminal offence.

Whilst the Census Act was written in 1920, it is only the "libertarian" Conservative government who have chosen to enforce it, prosecuting 400 people in 2011 compared to 30 in 2001, and demanding the maximum penalty in all cases. The fact the 2011 Census contract was awarded to Lockheed Martin, who were paid per completion, was of course entirely unrelated to this crackdown.

 

[DarloRich]

The fact the 2011 Census contract was awarded to Lockheed Martin, who were paid per completion, was of course entirely unrelated to this crackdown.

Terribly cynical

I wonder how many were convicted?

 

[crehld]

As someone who used to work in electoral registration I will attempt to clear up some of the points. This comes with the caveat that I last worked in this field seven years ago and the process of registration has changed recently.

Okay this will take a while to explain.

In December/January-ish I got a letter from the council called "Your Vote Matters". It said I have to fill it in or they would steal £80 from me if I don't.

It also said I should recieve the electoral list for the house to confirm it.

I didn't fill it in as I registered last election like others I know who didn't get this threatening letter. And I don't take any notice of threats at all.

The electoral register is updated every year (or there about), so if you registered at the last election and have not re-registered since then the likelihood is you are no longer registered.

Anyway a few weeks later a list showing who's in my house was sent asking me to confirm it. As I expected it showed me as being registered to vote so there was no point in me filling the other letter out anway. Although my poor old Mum lost her vote now sadly.

This appears to be a renewal form. As you said, the list asked you to confirm! By not returning it you have not confirmed it! Although it is a little odd to get one for the whole household considering it is all individual registration now.

Now today I went for lunch with my sister and got back home to find an opened envelope in front of my door.
There was a card saying "you were out" and a letter saying:

"we recently wrote to you..blah blah blah ((about voting stuff)... You need to provide us with this information; if you don't you could be fined £80. Please send us this information by 28 March 2015."

Many councils undertake a canvassing exercise and send people round to knock on doors an register people that way. It's a way of making sure information on the register is accurate (by removing names of people no longer there and adding those who are), and in some way helps to spot potential cases of fraud, for example if you go to a property with 20 people registered, but it turns out to be a studio flat! And the letter was open because the canvasser probably didn't stick it down - and I don't blame them. As someone who's done this I can tell you that the taste of envelope glue is pretty vile once you've been round 100 properties!

It has 11 March 2015 below my address. Council must be very slow!

Yep - welcome to the world of local government! The likelihood is your council (like all councils) has no money and probably only employs one person part time to manage the register for the whole district!

But why me? Why isn't my Mum or Sister for example getting these threats of fines?

It's individual registration now - so everyone takes responsibility for themselves. Perhaps your mum and sister have sorted themselves out. Perhaps it's a simple admin error on the council's part (it happens!).

Why should I get fined anyway?

Because the law says you should. To be honest though this is very rarely enforced (how can you fine someone you don't officially know about?!), but it has been known to happen so don't ignore the 'threat' (as you call it). I agree it can seem threatening. This is why many councils prefer to stress the fact that the electoral register is used by credit reference agencies, and not being on the register has a very real impact on your ability to access basic financial services such as bank accounts, insurance, credit cards, mobile phone contracts, etc., etc.

I'm on the electoral list anyway and it's been confirmed so I won't lose my vote as it says. And how can I send something on Marth the 28th?

I would just send in a registration form to make sure. As others have said, for the May general election the registration deadline is 20 April, so plenty of time.

Not sure about that. I was only aware of the annual registration form. Might be worth contacting electoral services at your Council to find out.

The most sensible option here. Won't take you a couple of minutes (depending on how long it takes them to answer the phone).

I've taken a picture of it. And know for certain I am on the electoral roll.

It doesn't hurt to double check by calling the council and/or sending in another registration form.

Can I be fined for not being double registered?

Not at the same address, no. If you are already registered and you send in another registration form then the electoral registration office will treat this as a renewal. If you start registering yourself at multiple properties all over the place that's a different matter!

As I'm on the list but getting £80 fines threatened.
I think this is ridiculous.

Again, just double check you are registered. It just takes a phone call.

If you received a letter in about October last year that was under the old system, where one member of a household would register everyone in that household.

The system changed at the end of last year. Each person in a household must now register to vote individually; this can be done online or by post. It is quicker online, but I resented being threatened with an £80 fine, so I registered the expensive way.

Some voters were automatically transferred on to the new system, and some had to re-register. It may be that you were automatically transferred but other members of your household were not, so you'll continue to get the letters.

This is actually the most likely cause of the situation.

I'd suggest you give the council a call to clarify whether you are registered or not.

Good advice.

I don't agree with the fine, though. It should be a democratic right to refuse to participate.

The right to refuse to participate exists. You must register, but whether or not you show up to vote on polling day is up to you!

But we're seeing more and more of this police state creeping in. The fine for not completing the Census is £1000, and the Office for National Statistics thought it appropriate to prosecute 400 people for this offence. That is disgraceful.

It's not really a police state though is it? The law requires you do these things, in the same way the law requires you to pay your taxes, obey the speed limits, etc. To not do them is illegal, hence the fines. Whether or not the law is right or wrong is immaterial. The law can be changed, so if you don't like it you may lobby your MP. Or maybe vote for one in May who supports this view. Of course this option is only open to you if you fill in the form and happen to be registered to vote!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Voting and census-completion may or may not be "civic duties" (whatever that means), but failure to tell the Government about your personal details shouldn't be a criminal offence.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe, criminal offence seems a bit strong, but there are good reasons for expecting everyone to fill in electoral registration and census forms: If the authorities don't have the information about who is living where, then it makes it very hard to plan what services are required (schools, utilities, etc.) - and that ultimately harms everyone else living in the area. So if enough people don't fill in the forms that will (indirectly) cause harm to others.

Providing that information isn't particularly onerous and is one of the things that - bluntly - helps our society to run smoothly, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to require everyone to do it, with some kind of penalty for not doing so. (I do agree though that the letters GrimsbyPacer is describing do seem heavy-handed and unwarranted in the situation he describes)

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I got my polling card now. Without doing anything yet.
So all's okay for me.

 

[Pigeon]

Because the law says you should. To be honest though this is very rarely enforced (how can you fine someone you don't officially know about?!), but it has been known to happen so don't ignore the 'threat' (as you call it). I agree it can seem threatening. This is why many councils prefer to stress the fact that the electoral register is used by credit reference agencies, and not being on the register has a very real impact on your ability to access basic financial services such as bank accounts, insurance, credit cards, mobile phone contracts, etc., etc.

This is precisely why I refuse to register. It is not possible to prevent people who have absolutely nothing to do with carrying out elections from using the electoral roll as a database of personal information. Therefore I will not make my personal information available to that database in the first place. (So I can't vote? Big deal, I'm in a "safe seat" so it's a waste of time voting anyway.)

Some councils do emphasise this abuse of the register, yes - mine does - indeed they put more emphasis on it than on the true purpose of the register. But others do exactly the opposite, and hide the fact that ticking the box to have your details removed from the "full" register does not actually prevent people nosing into your personal details down in the small print somewhere, in the hope that people who don't want their details abused will not realise that the opt-out is ineffective.