McGills to be bought out?

[overthewater]

I dont know why but has anyone heard anything about McGills being brought over? Its been highlighted it may will be Go-Ahead, but who knows, or is it more pie in the skies...................

 

[MK Tom]

Do you mean bought? I thought the title meant brought to England!

 

[Deerfold]

I dont know why but has anyone heard anything about McGills being brought over? Its been highlighted it may will be Go-Ahead, but who knows, or is it more pie in the skies...................

Any chance of spellchecking/sensechecking before posting? For a change?

Who's highlighted Goahead may be involved? Where did you hear this? Is there a source online - or elsewhere?

 

[overthewater]

It does get spell checked, but if the words are correct but not in the correct sense then it wont pick it up.

Alas, nothing really concrete is online about it, I know... but its seems a good number of people are talking about this, on the ground up north.

It could all be for nothing and its just another First pulling out of Wales or Manchester, Its possible since McGills may be short of cash?

 

[Deerfold]

It does get spell checked, but if the words are correct but not in the correct sense then it wont pick it up.

No, that's why I put "sensechecking" too.

It can be very hard making head or tail of many of your posts.

It could all be for nothing and its just another First pulling out of Wales or Manchester, Its possible since McGills may be short of cash?

They may be? Or they are? Is that idle speculation?

 

[overthewater]

No, that's why I put "sensechecking" too.

It can be very hard making head or tail of many of your posts.

They may be? Or they are? Is that idle speculation?

Good chance since, Mcgills paid £10million for Arriva service, and then paid £3million for McColls, for 30 buses. The expanded services in Dumbarton haven't been as successful, service 204X, the brand new route started early in the year has been pulled, why bendy Bus were used I don't know.

Again its not all sunshine in renfrewshire either, with gaps appearing and the service no where close to being able to coupe with everyone, the fleet replacement is not easy either.

 

[MK Tom]

Why did Arriva originally sell Glasgow to McGills? To me that move lost them their 'national operator' status.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why did Arriva originally sell Glasgow to McGills? To me that move lost them their 'national operator' status.

The Arriva operations were remote and weren't really large enough to be managed effectively. Worrying that they don't have Scottish operations isn't really an issue... they're a European operator.

Also, there was/is such a level of competition (and it's not really a level playing field) that they couldn't really expand.

As for Go-Ahead buying McGills, this would be the same Go-Ahead who were supposed to be buying First Scotland East? Of course, it "could" happen but doesn't really look like the type of operation that Go-Ahead would buy. It has a whiff of something agricultural.....

 

[overthewater]

As for Go-Ahead buying McGills, this would be the same Go-Ahead who were supposed to be buying First Scotland East? Of course, it "could" happen but doesn't really look like the type of operation that Go-Ahead would buy. It has a whiff of something agricultural.....

I would not knock that bit. Like other areas it was looked and it could be very possible companies just walked away, like Northampton or Plymouth.

I do have my doubt about this, but never say never.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would not knock that bit. Like other areas it was looked and it could be very possible companies just walked away, like Northampton or Plymouth.

I do have my doubt about this, but never say never.

There is a difference. In terms of Northampton (definitely) that parties were involved but then walked away. That's actual confirmed fact not idle chatter on some message board.

We've seen the same about Stagecoach buying parts of First Manchester (other than Wigan)... I mean, it "could" happen but will it/did it?

There's always the old "a driver told me" stuff; wish I had a fiver for every one of those I've heard. As I say, I'd be very surprised if McGills were bought by GAG, and the proprietors do have a number of finance sources.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What exactly was the story concerning the involvement with Riverside Transport in the Paisley area ?

 

[trentside]

Haven't there been some quite persistent attempts to 'rubbish' McGills through rumour and speculation? I seem to remember that it prompted quite a strong reaction from the Scottish Traffic Commissioners at one point. Until I see something concrete, I'd put this down to idle speculation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Haven't there been some quite persistent attempts to 'rubbish' McGills through rumour and speculation? I seem to remember that it prompted quite a strong reaction from the Scottish Traffic Commissioners at one point. Until I see something concrete, I'd put this down to idle speculation.

There are two things at work here. First of all, the Go Ahead rumour. Doesn't seem to fit.

Secondly, the finances of the Easdale family. Now we all must remember to keep things factual and legal The facts are (as stated above) that the TC did rubbish the rumours about "suspected links" etc. However, such rumours were doubtless helped by the fact that one of the family was sent down for VAT fraud in 1997.

Truth is that there are a complex set of relationships that surround certain individuals, and the Rangers FC story highlights that. Certainly, what the truth actually is about McGills funding is probably not to be found on a message board

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Hi folks, I'm a new user here and got pointed to this thread by a member of the forum.

I to suspected this to be suspicious when I first read it, not only because have McGill's taking over Arriva only just last year, and most recently McColl's of Dumbarton. The only thing that might suggest a possible rumour is that they were losing 40k a week on running they bendies on the 204X from Glasgow to Balloch due to their poor MPG and low passenger usage.

Howver I took the liberty in emailing Holly Birch who is the Investor Relations manager at Go-Ahead to see what the situation was and this was her reply to me.

Hi Gary,

There is no substance to this rumour. I hope that puts your mind at rest.

Kind regards
Holly

Holly Birch ACCA
Head of Investor Relations
The Go-Ahead Group plc

So here's hoping that this will be the end of that rumour...

 

[overthewater]

That answers that question. I shall leave it at that.

Just to put the cat among the birds... To be fair no company has ever admitted something like this. Arriva did the same, prior to it being sold off to mcgills.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That answers that question. I shall leave it at that.

Just to put the cat among the birds... To be fair no company has ever admitted something like this. Arriva did the same, prior to it being sold off to mcgills.

And more accurately still, there are infinitely more inaccurate postings than the stuff that ever actually happens. One example from this time, one year ago:

"I still keep hearing talk First are selling off at least one Scottish depot. But no announcement will happen until after London games at the end of August. The reason why it all boils down to with Livingston is to do with the new West Lothian council contracts which start on the 1st October:

* ALL buses must be 51 plate or younger
* Must give change.

Livingston does not give change (nor does Horsburgh) and well, to be honest, they're running really low on 51 plate and younger buses in the depot. R reg darts will not cut the mustard. It also does not help that Livingston depot is still short of operational buses. Hence the reason there is some meat/ at least something to back up, to prove something is going on."

All seemingly plausible and logical.....and Livingston is still a First depot, with no credible evidence to suggest that it was ever going not to be the case

 

[GaryMcEwan]

But did it ever come out as to why Arriva sold to McGill's? Because as far as I'm aware, their Glasgow operations (23, 26, 36, 38 & X23) all seemed to be doing quite well.

The buses seemed busy enough and they actually liked by the passengers including me due to the fact they were 9 times outta 10 punctual and had services running every 10 minutes. Yeah their Darts on the 36/38 and Darts on other routes kind of let them down a bit, but also their use of mTickting with their iPhone and Android app also seemed popular with commuters.

Yes there was the rigmarole with the OFT and CC, to which I put my two cents worth after McGill's cancelled the Arriva night services, and when they did take over, there was a sense of displeasure around my local area which is Govan which either was wholly served by either First or Arriva.

However with regards to the McGills/Easdale/Rangers saga, don't get me started, as I would start and then not stop on this issue....

 

[overthewater]

"I still keep hearing talk First are selling off at least one Scottish depot. But no announcement will happen until after London games at the end of August. The reason why it all boils down to with Livingston is to do with the new West Lothian council contracts which start on the 1st October:
* ALL buses must be 51 plate or younger
* Must give change.
Livingston does not give change (nor does Horsburgh) and well, to be honest, they're running really low on 51 plate and younger buses in the depot. R reg darts will not cut the mustard. It also does not help that Livingston depot is still short of operational buses. Hence the reason there is some meat/ at least something to back up, to prove something is going on."

I be honest I bet my money on Livingston getting the chop, when in fact the other depot, which was also suggested......Cumbernauld...... get the chop. That was the Scottish depot which ended up being closed down, so I was correct in that wider aspect, but you'r correct I got it wrong. A few other places suggested being up for the chop like south Wales, Stirling or Bury, which I had my doubts about.

Next Monday, further cuts are taking place to the First Glasgow routes (All two of them) that operate to the town, mainly the Peak service are getting reduced again.

First Still lost nearly all its WL council work, but has since regain some. I shall upload the West Lothian Council Tender document... IT CLEARLY shows on every single one of the tenders:

* ALL buses must be 51 plate or younger
* Must give change.

What has happened? I really don't know how on earth WL council can published documents and then just go meh...... alot of people and other companies in WL are rather peed off E&M have for over a year gotten away with older stock, and still do not give change.

Just before the Dalkieth kicked the bucket, someone highlighted the trouble the depot was in etc... and what happened... it closed... the same person highlighted FSE was being looked at by a number of other companies, of course nothing has happened from that.

All seemingly plausible and logical.....and Livingston is still a First depot, with no credible evidence to suggest that it was ever going not to be the case

People still harp on about Northampton and Plymouth. No proper evidence has appeared.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But did it ever come out as to why Arriva sold to McGill's? Because as far as I'm aware, their Glasgow operations (23, 26, 36, 38 & X23) all seemed to be doing quite well..

It seems McGills offer to Arriva was too good to pass up.

Nigel Featham, Arriva’s regional managing director, said the offer from McGill’s was too good to refuse.

Plus, limited opportunity to grow this relatively-isolated part of Arriva’s UK bus business and the offer received represents good value for Arriva.”

http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.u...announce-buyout-by-rival-firm-87085-29947825/




Further more managing director Ralph Roberts, previously was in charge of Arriva Scotland West before March 2010, shortly after that was when stories started appearing of McGills buying Arriva...

 

[mbonwick]

Howver I took the liberty in emailing Holly Birch who is the Investor Relations manager at Go-Ahead to see what the situation was and this was her reply to me.

Hi Gary,

There is no substance to this rumour. I hope that puts your mind at rest.

Kind regards
Holly

Holly Birch ACCA
Head of Investor Relations
The Go-Ahead Group plc

So here's hoping that this will be the end of that rumour...

While I don't doubt the rumours are inaccurate, that statement doesn't answer anything.

As a FTSE listed company, Go-Ahead are required to notify of takeovers etc through official channels, due to the obvious effects they can have on share price (and to stop any trader gaining an unfair advantage through inside knowledge).
Realistically all they can say is "no substance" until they announce it to the markets.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I be honest I bet my money on Livingston getting the chop, when in fact the other depot, which was also suggested......Cumbernauld...... get the chop.

People still harp on about Northampton and Plymouth. No proper evidence has appeared.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, and good that you put your hand up. However, there was a level of chatter about Cumbernauld going to Stagecoach! The old adage is that if you fire the shotgun enough times, then eventually you'll hit something; given that virtually every operation was speculated about, then something had to be correct eventually

As for Plymouth and Northampton, there is an official line from Tim O'Toole where he says...

Well, in the disposals there are some money losing operations we have to run off, of which we weren’t able to complete the sales. We had more regulatory interference than we expected, but we also had people who had indicated expressions of interest, who at the end of the day walked away, and there was just no getting around that. In South Devon and Northampton we are almost in a close-down mode trying to figure out Northampton getting two or more efficient, smaller operations, transferring some of those operations to other carriers so we can TUPE the employees across and give them the appropriate future. We are having to do some of that although it is not a big financial item that you would see.

This was from a transcript of a talk to investors and subsequent Q&A with journos.

 

[Volvodart]

The proposed Plymouth sale was mentioned in the documents relating to the abandoned Devon sale report para 33.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/decisions/2012/stagecoach

 

[overthewater]

Very true, about the Shotgun, I would still watch out with FSE as the danger is not gone yet. IF Scotrail is retained, then I think First would want to get rid of a small number of other routes etc to get rid of the OFT and CC controlled routes which in most case has also not help one bit for passengers nor First.

Thank you for the transcript.

 

[Volvodart]

Of course, if someone like Arriva or Abellio win the Scotrail franchise, they may want some bus operations in Scotland.

 

[overthewater]

Of course, if someone like Arriva or Abellio win the Scotrail franchise, they may want some bus operations in Scotland.

Or even expand

 

[kylemore]

So are we allowed to say that McGills are basically Crooks or not?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If not then of course I'll refrain from saying it.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

So are we allowed to say that McGills are basically Crooks or not?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If not then of course I'll refrain from saying it.

Depends who we are talking about, if we are talking about the Easdale's then totally they are, Sandy Easdale in particular, I'll make no qualms about it that I dislike them, and with them entering the Rangers fold, it makes me dislikes them even more.

And Sandy Easdale at the end of the day was convicted of VAT fraud, and yet he wants to get his fingers in the pie at Rangers. And these were raised at the recent AGM at Ibrox.

Oh and most recently £100,000 stolen or gone missing from Inchinnan? More to the point, why would you have £100,000 in cash just lying about the depot? And also the depot wasn't broken into...

So yeah in theory one half of the Easdale's is a crook...

 

[Deerfold]

And Sandy Easdale at the end of the day was convicted of VAT fraud, and yet he wants to get his fingers in the pie at Rangers. And these were raised at the recent AGM at Ibrox.

...

So yeah in theory one half of the Easdale's is a crook...

Although it was sufficiently long ago that it would would not have to be mentioned on most job applications as it would now be regarded as "spent".

 

[robertclark125]

While I don't doubt the rumours are inaccurate, that statement doesn't answer anything.

As a FTSE listed company, Go-Ahead are required to notify of takeovers etc through official channels, due to the obvious effects they can have on share price (and to stop any trader gaining an unfair advantage through inside knowledge).
Realistically all they can say is "no substance" until they announce it to the markets.

Totally agree. Because, if they tell you anything, they don't know if you're going to make a counter bid. simple as that. And also, there is due dillegence.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Totally agree. Because, if they tell you anything, they don't know if you're going to make a counter bid. simple as that. And also, there is due dillegence.

They can decline to say anything or come up with some anodyne waffle. To say there's no substance is more categorical as a denial.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course, if someone like Arriva or Abellio win the Scotrail franchise, they may want some bus operations in Scotland.

Why would they?

 

[overthewater]

Why would they?

Why not? Scotrail passengers in Glasgow has been growing for years, while the bus network has been contracting. Maybe abit of a fight might improve things and grab car users instead?