McGills to be bought out?

[overthewater]

Hang on!!!! All you're doing by saying that is to come up with some idle musing to legitimise other unfounded speculation!

The facts are what exactly? The only factual information is a response from Go Ahead saying there is no substance. Nothing to substantiate anything, which was the same as the rumours about Go Ahead looking at Musselburgh and North Berwick.

I was taking the mick as there would say, I added in the two smiles You never know

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was taking the mick as there would say, I added in the two smiles You never know

Fair enough though not surprising. You do have form

 

[Statto]

Fair enough though not surprising. You do have form

Exactly, i'll believe it if & when i see it confirmed, that FM has form for posting BS like this, i take anything posted by the OP with a pinch of salt, i've stopped reading his other thread on First being so full of BS.

 

[overthewater]

http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/...469347--mcgills-set-to-close-dumbarton-depot/

MCGILL'S Buses has confirmed it will close its Dumbarton depot as of November , the Reporter can exclusively reveal.
A spokeswoman for the company spoke to the Reporter yesterday (Monday). She said: "Regrettably, McGill's has decided to close its Dumbarton depot. The last day of operation for all commercial services operating from our Dumbarton depot will be Sunday, November 3. SPT contracted services 184, 305/306 and 309 will continue to operate from our Inchinnan depot.
"Staff were advised of the company's intentions on Friday afternoon (August 23) by a senior member of management. Further meetings are scheduled for this week.
"We have offered employment at other depots to all drivers currently operating from our Dumbarton depot. Similarly, engineering and ancillary staff will be offered the opportunity to relocate to other depots, where possible."
- See more at: http://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/...o-close-dumbarton-depot/#sthash.HNpLcIVZ.dpuf
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Exactly, i'll believe it if & when i see it confirmed, that FM has form for posting BS like this, i take anything posted by the OP with a pinch of salt, i've stopped reading his other thread on First being so full of BS.

Its very wise words to say.....
Other thread has not been about sell off for a while now, and now focus on Day to day running of the company, including shares, fleets , reports etc.

I did put my hands up and say I got the wrong depot in Scotland wrong, I did say say South wales nor would get the chop.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Its very wise words to say.....
Other thread has not been about sell off for a while now, and now focus on Day to day running of the company, including shares, fleets , reports etc.

I did put my hands up and say I got the wrong depot in Scotland wrong, I did say say South wales nor would get the chop.

To be absolutely fair, you're not the only person to over-indulge in speculation, nor is this the only message board to carry such postings. The problem is that people throw up so much "chaff" that no one knows what the hell is actually correct.

Winston, our regular TWM poster, always approaches things from a more forensic position and he's spot on to do so. When anyone puts forward a view of something might happen, people should always ask the question - WHY?

Why would Go Ahead buy in Scotland? Why would they buy a fleet in dire need of updating? Why would Uno buy First Northampton?

If the answer is "why wouldn't they?" then that's not an answer. If there's more answers that say no rather than yes, or more that say yes than no, then you're on a better footing. However, folkes have got to be empirical about it and be honest in evaluating things.

One caveat - sometimes exceptional things happen, but they're exceptional for a reason - more often than not, boring stuff happens!

 

[Statto]

There is also another reason there is a need for responsible posing when it comes to companies being sold ecc & that's peoples jobs could be at stake, whilst routes & timetables might be fair game, takeovers, closures including depot closures should be posted when it has been confirmed, & not just posting for idle speculation.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

But how do these rumours even start in the first place, and where do they come from?

I echo the post that said why would Go-Ahead come to Scotland in the first place? They have no operations here and it just doesn't sit right that an 'unknown' company to Scotland would suddenly buy what is Scotland's biggest independent operator.

In my opinion, if there is nothing in it, then I don't see what the harm would be if McGill's were to release a statement to say that no takeover is happening...

 

[winston270twm]

To be absolutely fair, you're not the only person to over-indulge in speculation, nor is this the only message board to carry such postings. The problem is that people throw up so much "chaff" that no one knows what the hell is actually correct.

Winston, our regular TWM poster, always approaches things from a more forensic position and he's spot on to do so. When anyone puts forward a view of something might happen, people should always ask the question - WHY?

Why would Go Ahead buy in Scotland? Why would they buy a fleet in dire need of updating? Why would Uno buy First Northampton?

If the answer is "why wouldn't they?" then that's not an answer. If there's more answers that say no rather than yes, or more that say yes than no, then you're on a better footing. However, folkes have got to be empirical about it and be honest in evaluating things.

One caveat - sometimes exceptional things happen, but they're exceptional for a reason - more often than not, boring stuff happens!

TheGrandWazoo, thanks for your comments

The biggest problem First has faced trying to sell off the bits it doesn't want, is that they are both generally loss making & in need of substantial investment in their fleets and operation to turn them around, hence why nobody else really wants them unless First will part with them for a knock down price.......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But how do these rumours even start in the first place, and where do they come from?

I echo the post that said why would Go-Ahead come to Scotland in the first place? They have no operations here and it just doesn't sit right that an 'unknown' company to Scotland would suddenly buy what is Scotland's biggest independent operator.

In my opinion, if there is nothing in it, then I don't see what the harm would be if McGill's were to release a statement to say that no takeover is happening...

Go-Ahead have been snapping up quite a few of the larger /higher quality independents in East Anglia/Essex of late & McGill's falls in to the category in a new area, neither are McGill's based a million miles from Go-Ahead HQ in Newcastle upon Tyne, so it could be quite plausible...... Go-Ahead have committed to earning £100 Million profit from it's bus division by 2015/16, the majority will come via growth but some may have to come via acquisitions

 

[overthewater]

TheGrandWazoo, thanks for your comments aswell.

Problem with McGill releasing a press statement saying it not true is pointless, Arriva did the same in 2009... a year later it was sold to Mcgill.

(Just to point out the fleet is not needing a lot of investment as Mcgills have done a good job sending alot to the scrape man, and new buses are in use.)

This is where it can get rather foggy, Half the time some of the rumors are true but for use of better words: Could never be never be confirmed.. IE

"Responsible posing" how to class it? Someone over a year ago said " Dalkieth was trouble and could be sold off or worse, and it did etc... the same person highlighted companies did look at buying First Scotland East.. it never happened.... What do you do?

Its as TheGrandWazoo and winston270twm, says " substantial investment V purchase cost" . Thus the parties walk away. I do believe Northampton was the same.... What company would buy it?

I did say """" The Rumor about south wales has popped back up? I cant believe it""

Some times something is backing it up whlie other times its got nothing and its seems its that side that is annoying....... but some of the talk does have something behide it, Just because its does not happen does't make it not true.

 

[Deerfold]

TheGrandWazoo, thanks for your comments aswell.

Problem with McGill releasing a press statement saying it not true is pointless, Arriva did the same in 2009... a year later it was sold to Mcgill.

I'd guess the press release was true at the time. I doubt negotiations would have been going on for a year.

 

[DunsBus]

TheGrandWazoo, thanks for your comments aswell.

Problem with McGill releasing a press statement saying it not true is pointless, Arriva did the same in 2009... a year later it was sold to Mcgill.

(Just to point out the fleet is not needing a lot of investment as Mcgills have done a good job sending alot to the scrape man, and new buses are in use.)

This is where it can get rather foggy, Half the time some of the rumors are true but for use of better words: Could never be never be confirmed.. IE

"Responsible posing" how to class it? Someone over a year ago said " Dalkieth was trouble and could be sold off or worse, and it did etc... the same person highlighted companies did look at buying First Scotland East.. it never happened.... What do you do?

Its as TheGrandWazoo and winston270twm, says " substantial investment V purchase cost" . Thus the parties walk away. I do believe Northampton was the same.... What company would buy it?

I did say """" The Rumor about south wales has popped back up? I cant believe it""

Some times something is backing it up whlie other times its got nothing and its seems its that side that is annoying....... but some of the talk does have something behide it, Just because its does not happen does't make it not true.

Problem was that Dalkeith was operating at a loss and had done for some time, with no prospect of it returning to profitability. That was why the 15 Geminis new there in 2005 were transferred to other depots in First Scotland East as First was unlikely to recoup the outlay on the buses if they had remained at Dalkeith.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some times something is backing it up whlie other times its got nothing and its seems its that side that is annoying....... but some of the talk does have something behide it, Just because its does not happen does't make it not true.

Isn't that just the problem? Come up with enough rumours and eventually one might hit the target? It's the old shotgun analogy again. Here's a post from the aftermath of the disposal list being leaked:

when it comes to Northampton, i just the feeling FIRST will just pull out of the area, and just sell the depot for a couple of millions to Stagecoach. who would want to buy hugh depot and crap buses for a few route?

* Redditch I think this may end up with Stagecoach, its just next door and will make sure Competitions still happens in the area.

* Kidderminster, I believe willl be Rota;

* Birkenhead could go to Stagecaoch aswell, as there have done really will with Arriva on the Mersey travel contracts...

* Chester, Wigan, I believe Rota or Transdev,

* Somerset, Go ahead

Now of those, Rotala getting Kiddy was right, as was Birkenhead to Stagecoach. However, the idea that Transdev would buy Chester? Was NEVER gonna happen. Why would they buy that, not withstanding that they'd already said that buying out Veolia was the priority? Why would Chester be split from Rock Ferry?

First not being able to sell Northampton was always likely (too small to be viable and the fleet swap with FEC was a clear sign too at that time) but by that time, Stagecoach had already signed the deal for the new depot, so St James wasn't going to Stagecoach. Basically 2 out of 7 were correctly predicted

Some other ones posted at the same time, and from a range of posters, included:

"If Wyvern does go, who can we see taking that area over?" to which someone said "A certain national operator who's name begins with S." The OP then said "Kidderminster : Possibly NXWM? Redditch : Diamond, Stagecoach or Johnsons"

Or what about this... "I've argued that the ftrs leaving York is a sign that those operations may be up for sale before long though."

Or this "Talk is Cumbernauld HAS been sold to stagecoach, is there any way to prove this?"

I've also seen, on this and other sites, discussions and speculation on Bath depot going to Stagecoach, Go Ahead buying the East Lothian ops, one of the core Manchester depots (think Oldham) being sold, whilst Northampton was linked to Centrebus, Stagecoach, Uno AND Arriva.

That's why I'm cynical about many of these rumours :roll::roll:

As Winston said, Go Ahead have said they are looking to put on turnover but they'll only do that by purchasing solid operations. There's other places where they might buy before McGills. Also, my comment about buying something that needed investment was in relation to any further purchases north of the border, and the continuing speculation about Livingston. Hey, they COULD do it (and it would add turnover and the fleet isn't so bad with McGills), but when looking at those rumours that do come true, think of ALL the ones that don't.

However, if we all pitched in a fiver for each rumour that gets propounded, then we could probably afford to mount a takeover bid for First ourselves

 

[overthewater]

Of course Livingston has the some problem, its not making the money. The only place to actually make money for Scotland east is Galashiels, who did get some new buses, who are getting the investment, who have also been told to get on with things, and its continues to be successful. Has the Closure of Linlithgow and the transfer of the No43 helped Livingston? TAS have yet to release a news story about who made the biggest profits and losses.

So basically we need to reel in the fishing lines and stop taking the dizzy water as it seem many of us many have went in the deep end and we nearly all become cynical

think of ALL the ones that don't.

Many of them I didn't believe in the first place but cumbernauld was closed down, the list Bar Somerset was correct and london also went. Of course the betting list was never really true rumors more of what could first sell and make a good profit OR not fit in to the current operations.

I do have to say this again the other thread has moved on and does talk about other stuff, like shares and old Polices from First, Fleet plus its DDA compliance, which to be fair had no definitive answer.

Railforums Equity Group, we could make a nice profit selling off the US opertions

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So basically we need to reel in the fishing lines and stop taking the dizzy water as it seem many of us many have went in the deep end and we nearly all become cynical

Many of them I didn't believe in the first place but cumbernauld was closed down, the list Bar Somerset was correct and london also went. Of course the betting list was never really true rumors more of what could first sell and make a good profit OR not fit in to the current operations.

I do have to say this again the other thread has moved on and does talk about other stuff, like shares and old Polices from First, Fleet plus its DDA compliance, which to be fair had no definitive answer.

Agree with the initial line wholeheartedly. To be fair, McGills will probably sell out at some point but the speculation (similar to the First disposal list) has been rather spurious.

As for the First list, why publicise them if you don't believe them? That said, the leaked list was fairly accurate but the people in the frame to buy wasn't. Also, Cumbernauld was absolutely, definitely and incontrovertibly sold to Stagecoach! Then there's the speculation that Go Ahead would buy this, or Transdev would buy that. The parallels between these McGills rumours and the First disposal programme are deffo there!!

As for DDA, there IS a definitive answer. The Act says what standards a vehicle should have. What is unknown is how that affects each and every vehicle and thus it is difficult to know (and not just with First) as to how many meet DDA without any modification, some minor modification, more major modification but justifiable with the age of the vehicle and, finally, those vehicles that can't be sorted or the cost/extent of the modification is prohibitive.

 

[overthewater]

As I said The list, was of operations which I did believe had a chance or d make a good profit OR not fit in to the current operations. To be fair some of stranger rumors were not give good odds like South wales and Manchesters 200/1 its not worth it. To be fair Cumbernauld is becoming a Stagecoach town :P I cant see how First could cut back any more with out pulling the plug.

First would be better off buying a good number of Mid term Second hand buses, and spending the required money on upgrade them to DDA.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I said The list, was of operations which I did believe had a chance or d make a good profit OR not fit in to the current operations. To be fair some of stranger rumors were not give good odds like South wales and Manchesters 200/1 its not worth it. To be fair Cumbernauld is becoming a Stagecoach town :P I cant see how First could cut back any more with out pulling the plug.

First would be better off buying a good number of Mid term Second hand buses, and spending the required money on upgrade them to DDA.

I was going off the "official" list of disposals, not your list of odds.

Now, don't be saying "To be fair Cumbernauld is becoming a Stagecoach town" to excuse that you were mistaken when you said the depot was being sold to them when it was closing. That's the problem with myth and legend; drivers are some of the worst at starting rumours. Some are planted by them with enthusiasts just for idle enjoyment!

First ARE buying a number of newer secondhand vehicles via Ensign; these include ex Veolia, ex Connex Jersey, and ex Premiere vehicles. However, the problem is that everyone is working to the same deadline and has the same constraint. Unless it's something fundamental (e.g. a business failure), then there aren't that many vehicles around

 

[overthewater]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23899263

Businessman Sandy Easdale has bought Charles Green's stake in Rangers, ending the former chief executive's connection with the club.
Easdale, whose brother James is a non-executive director, said there had been "continued speculation and constant enquiries" about Green's shares.
Continue reading the main story
“
I want to make it clear that this means I will have no ongoing influence or financial interest at the club
”
Charles Green
Former Rangers chief executive
"Between my family holdings and through other supporting investors I now have the largest shareholding," he said.
BBC Scotland believes the family holds around 10% of shares in circulation.
Greenock-based Easdale, who runs McGill's Bus Service with his brother, said Green had given him the "first option" to buy the shares.
Green led a consortium to buy Rangers last summer but quit as chief executive in April following allegations about his dealings with former owner Craig Whyte.
The Yorkshireman was re-employed as a consultant in early August after an investigation found no evidence of Whyte's claims he was involved in the Green-led acquisition.
However, he agreed to step down again just a few weeks later following repeated calls from fans' groups for him to go.
"Over the last few months numerous individuals and corporate bodies have expressed interest in obtaining my shares, although much of this was to solicit press coverage and attract attention," said Green in a statement.
"Sandy said he would buy them and he has. I knew he would and he will do what's best for Rangers now he has a more substantial percentage.
"I want to make it clear that this means I will have no ongoing influence or financial interest at the club but I remain a fan and fervently hope that Rangers will soon be back at the top where they belong."

###########################################################

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Dunno what to make of this, however, apparently Go-Ahead are looking possibly to buy 50% of McGill's. They are supposedly announcing it in October...

Its allegedly meant to be getting announced quickly as the growing speculation has forced their hand into announcing it...

 

[overthewater]

Dunno what to make of this, however, apparently Go-Ahead are looking possibly to buy 50% of McGill's. They are supposedly announcing it in October...

Its allegedly meant to be getting announced quickly as the growing speculation has forced their hand into announcing it...

Seems a bit pointless buying just 50%, maybe it will help with having a one of the big guys on side, with new buses and insurance cost etc?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Seems a bit pointless buying just 50%, maybe it will help with having a one of the big guys on side, with new buses and insurance cost etc?

I'm not believing anything until I see some official confirmation from the parties involved or something from the OFT.

 

[Deerfold]

Dunno what to make of this, however, apparently Go-Ahead are looking possibly to buy 50% of McGill's. They are supposedly announcing it in October...

Its allegedly meant to be getting announced quickly as the growing speculation has forced their hand into announcing it...

Any sources for this or just another rumour?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Any sources for this or just another rumour?

I got told from one of the Barrhead inspectors last night...

 

[Deerfold]

I got told from one of the Barrhead inspectors last night...

Cheers. I'm sure we'll find out how well informed they are...

 

[Mr Manager]

Dont forget go ahead purchased 49% of Ipswich buses from Ipswich council. it serves as a warning shot to other local competitors.

 

[TAS]

Dont forget go ahead purchased 49% of Ipswich buses from Ipswich council. it serves as a warning shot to other local competitors.

Not true. 100% of the shares in Ipswich Buses Ltd are held by Ipswich Borough Council. See https://www.duedil.com/company/02000058/ipswich-buses-limited/people. http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/bus_sell_off_abandoned_1_657893 records the abandonment of the attempt to sell a stake in September 2010.

 

[Mr Manager]

This is the official side http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=4526&categoryid=0

but trust me and im in the know to a very big extent. it did go ahead pardon the pun. its all in the share issue. and believe me i should know given my position

 

[overthewater]

This is the official side http://www.busandcoach.com/newspage.aspx?id=4526&categoryid=0

but trust me and im in the know to a very big extent. it did go ahead pardon the pun. its all in the share issue. and believe me i should know given my position

Would this information in company house?

 

[Mr Manager]

No. similar to the financial backing to your bus.

 

[winston270twm]

No. similar to the financial backing to your bus.

How do they get away with not have to disclose those types of things to companies house then?

 

[Mr Manager]

Its all done via the shareholders. ie they increase say by 1% or more the shareholding. all funded by the person who wants to buy. normal caveats apply as in a signed document they they will only sell the shares to the named 3rd party in the document. so at the end of the day the company who wants to buy gets what they want just takes a little longer thats all.