London Overground to go completly DOO by July 2014

[313103]

Thank You Anthony for your reply and PM (I will get back to you a little later).

Modern Railways the union have tried there hardest against a (I had better be careful I nearly ran away with myself there) company who do not wish to talk about issues like the future for the displaced staff. Just to prove its not about technology that is driving this it is money, they are refusing the unions demands that the displaced staff maintain there current salary, they are saying that any Conductor who wishes to stay must accept a pay cut of between £4,000 and £8,000 depending on the job you take! That is not acceptable to anyone and one of the reasons why I opted take redundancy is because I simply I cannot afford to take a pay cut of £8,000 per year.

Carlisle: There are 124 Conductors on LOROL but there are only 60+ jobs available, most of these are vacant because no one else wants to do them. Of those 60+ jobs 20 of them are new roles of (Customer Ambassadors!) which not even the Customer Services Director knows what they are when he was asked! They want at least half the staff to redundancy so they know whether Compulsory redundancy's will be required.

In response to my previous message I have told the company I will not attending meeting on Thursday as this fails the Hidden agreement.

 

[Carlisle]

Thank you 313103 for explaining your situation and I hope you find a new job soon on the railway

 

[anthony263]

I agree with Carlisle and hope you find another job soon and hope that your next employer treats you a little better

 

[455driver]

I'm very sorry to hear that ,although the management have said in the press there would be no cumpulsory redundancies are they <management> telling porkies ?

Of course they are, their lips are moving!

Good luck with your quest 313103 I am sure you will find something decent soon you just have to keep pushing for it.

 

[maniacmartin]

What is the hidden agreement?

 

[455driver]

Anthony Hidden (who carried out the investigation after the Clapham jn incident) recommends a maximum of a 12 hour day for safety critical workers. Although the recommendations carry no legal powers most TOCs stick to them.

 

[Clip]

they are saying that any Conductor who wishes to stay must accept a pay cut of between £4,000 and £8,000 depending on the job you take! That is not acceptable to anyone and one of the reasons why I opted take redundancy is because I simply I cannot afford to take a pay cut of £8,000 per year.

First off let me say I do feel for you losing your job, it cant be a nice prospect to face and it must be difficult for you not being able to find a new one before your redundancy comes through but I do hope that you manage to find something before it does happen.

I must say though I am a little perplexed in you preferring to take redundancy and go onto the dole queue rather than take the pay cut until you find something else. Is this because you cant face working for the company anymore because of its decision to cut staff numbers and out of principle?

This is just my preference but I would rather take a pay cut then actually lose even more money by having to sign on for god knows how long... Im not having a pop I am just curious as its easier to find a job whilst in work rather than out of it, especially at the present time.

 

[313103]

So sorry Guys and Girls for bringing this back (for the second time). Just thought I would give you an update. Today will be the last time I will be working a train, I book on for the very last time at 14:45 this afternoon.

London Overground will be looking to bring the date forward from December the 8th to possibly Sunday 17th or Monday the 18th November. I have Annual Leave to take this week, so I am having some quality time with the wife on short break. Not sure what the future brings but I hope 2014 is a little kinder.

 

[455driver]

Good luck for the future!

 

[anthony263]

As 455driver has just said I do wish you all the best of luck for the future and I do hope it is not to long before you are back working in the railway industry.

 

[Carlisle]

I'll second that

 

[Minstral25]

As a passenger on these ridiculously overcrowded trains I cannot see justification for these changes. I agree with the unions that its unsafe. Thank you for ensuring safety for us.

Good lick for the future, I hope something comes up for you very soon.

 

[CC 72100]

Just thought I would give you an update. Today will be the last time I will be working a train, I book on for the very last time at 14:45 this afternoon.

Best of luck - hope the last shift doesn't throw up too many problems. As others have said, enjoy the break and hope you'll be back on the railway soon in a worthy capacity.

 

[Aictos]

Like everyone has said, best of luck fella and I do hope you find employment soon - There was me thinking LOROL were actually a decent employer, grass obviously isn't greener on the other side and all that.

 

[Monty]

Best of luck mate and all the best for the future, I can't believe it's actually happening and makes the rest of us in the grade look to the future with concern. It may be a long shot but I noticed on our internal vacancy list that SWT were recruiting for Guards at Waterloo. If you give recruitment a call and explain your situation they may allow you to apply.

 

[anthony263]

Best of luck mate and all the best for the future, I can't believe it's actually happening and makes the rest of us in the grade look to the future with concern. It may be a long shot but I noticed on our internal vacancy list that SWT were recruiting for Guards at Waterloo. If you give recruitment a call and explain your situation they may allow you to apply.

I would also agree you do this and if I were SWT I would try and recruit you since you have a good deal of experience. making it a little easier for SWT.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yeah exactly, you have experience makes you much more employable! Puts you in the top 5-10% of applications in rail jobs.

 

[SF-02]

Are all LO stations staffed all day long? If not getting rid of guards is madness as lots of people will skip fares.

On southeastern metro there are no guards and almost all stations are unbarriered except central London - result is large scale fare avoidance. I've seen people getting off a train at woolwich and only tapping in an oyster when getting onto a dlr as there is staff onboard. Everyone knows locally you almost never get checked on a train.

 

[Harlesden]

As I understand it, the all day staffing of stations was part of the requirements for the franchise. However, there is, apparently, no requirement for staff on stations to be actually visible. The good old days (on LUL) when a DSM or even a GSM could appear on a station without any warning whatsoever and expect each member of station staff to be in his/her correct position are long gone on the railways.

 

[Mojo]

Are all LO stations staffed all day long? If not getting rid of guards is madness as lots of people will skip fares.

They are. I don't see how Driver Only Operation will result in people skipping fares, as Overground guards are not commercial or involved in checking of customer's tickets.

Even on trains that have commercial guards, the reverse is probably true in the case of the electric DOO rail network around Glasgow or Southeastern's HS1 service, because the ticket examiner (where present) is able to concentrate wholly on customer care and revenue and does not have to worry about dispatch of the train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

However, there is, apparently, no requirement for staff on stations to be actually visible. The good old days (on LUL) when a DSM or even a GSM could appear on a station without any warning whatsoever and expect each member of station staff to be in his/her correct position are long gone on the railways.

I'm not sure whether you are agreeing with the point I'm about to make or not (so apologies if this is what you are trying to say) but on the Underground still when a Duty Manager (or a Mystery Shopper) visits a station then staff deployment and visibility still makes up a big point of what they are looking for!

 

[bicbasher]

On southeastern metro there are no guards and almost all stations are unbarriered except central London - result is large scale fare avoidance. I've seen people getting off a train at woolwich and only tapping in an oyster when getting onto a dlr as there is staff onboard. Everyone knows locally you almost never get checked on a train.

Lewisham is staffed and gated all day.

 

[SF-02]

Lewisham is staffed and gated all day.

I've passed through a few times at night and the side gate near the DLR that can be seen from the train was open. Is it supposed to be closed until the last service?

At Woolwich the barriers are opened from about 7/8pm each night, and there's also the side gate which is open quite often during the day.

 

[ModernRailways]

Lewisham is staffed and gated all day.

I've been through at around 1300 and the gates have been wide open. The side gates, however were closed. I've always been through at around 2000 and they have been open so I think it may just depend. Both times it was a weekday.

 

[Harlesden]

The first thing I noticed about the 378's was the abnormally long period between doors closing and train moving. I often change from a 378 onto a 313 at Highbury & Islington and the 313's which have been DOO for as long as I can remember often start moving the instant the doors have closed.
Can we look forward to a faster getaway on the 378's as a result of DOO?

 

[Mojo]

The 313s were only Driver Only on the Watford Jct - Euston DC lines service. As to whether it would make quicker journeys; I would expect so; look at the DC lines and the East London line which currently operate as Driver Only. DOO will make the biggest difference in reducing dwell times on services like the SWT Metro routes which are currently painfully slow as the guards open the doors as well, whereas on the Overground the driver opens.

 

[Pumbaa]

Disagree on that last point- the SWT rule book requires guards to ensure that the train is fully berthed in the platform, but does not require stepping onto the platform or viewings the whole train if the guard knows the whole train is berthed. In many platforms, and as route knowledge develops, there is often no delay in train stopping and door release. It is surprisingly easy to acquire that knowledge on the metro routes, given they mostly spend their time in precisely the same place.

 

[Mojo]

Perhaps in time they may put a green line on the platform (like on the Cross-city line in Birmingham) or a hatched board like on the New York Subway, but in my experience there is more often than not a fair delay between the train stopping and the doors being released.

 

[Starmill]

First time I've ever heard anyone say the door release on 378s is quick. Often takes FAR longer than any of the EMUs round here.

 

[Monty]

DOO will make the biggest difference in reducing dwell times on services like the SWT Metro routes which are currently painfully slow as the guards open the doors as well, whereas on the Overground the driver opens.

I would argue it would make very little difference at all, and in most cases time you would 'save' by doing away with a guard you would lose again because you are waiting for the platform staff to assist the driver with dispatch and then give the RA after all platform duties are completed. The biggest impact on dwell times is passenger volumes.

 

[notadriver]

In my humble opinion getting away will be faster with DOO and door releases taking a long time are dictated by the professional driving policy to try and combat wrong side door releases.

I always thought it was mandatory that a guard steps onto the platform to dispatch their train