Jonfun
Established Member
Were they invisible tickets??
What would the legal grounds be for the case?I can see a test case going to Court at some point if this policy continues.
Having read through all this, I am still convinced that this is very wrong. Once a train has set off from its starting point, that should be it as far as seat reservations are concerned. I can see a test case going to Court at some point if this policy continues.
Having read through all this, I am still convinced that this is very wrong. Once a train has set off from its starting point, that should be it as far as seat reservations are concerned. I can see a test case going to Court at some point if this policy continues.
It doesn't seem that hard - simply send an SMS with the seat number or, to get around people gaming the system, a pseudo-random code from the at seat display. Pretty much the same way the current TMR system works.I don't think seat reservations are really worth having a court case over, and don't think it's ever going to come to that... TMR would be absolutely fine as long as there is a way to stop your seat getting reserved once you've sat in it. Say for the Durham-Bristol trip, they can get on at Durham and somehow reserve their seat to Bristol (maybe the guard can do it for them, maybe they scan a barcode on the back of the seat in front of them...), but I can't see a way of that being feasible with current limitations.
Fridays 1V58 (0900 Glasgow Central - Penzance) Voyager service had ticket reservations slotted in seats when I boarded at Birmingham New Street!
Jonfun - I'm guessing you're asking 1e10 if the reservation labels contained details of where/when the seats were reserved, or if they were blank?Were they invisible tickets??
I don't think it's acceptable for blank reservation coupons to denote that seats are reserved for an unknown part of the journey and I don't think they should be allowed, but I'm not aware of XC doing this.
There is already plenty of case law dealing with issues of disorderly behaviour, which is all your example is. There would be no legal test of XC's ten-minute reservation system.Court? Easy. People objecting to getting moved out of their seats & getting stroppy. Escalates to them being thrown off train, probably with BTP involvement. Then summonsed for their behaviour under the by-laws. Off to Court & a hearing.
Were they invisible tickets??
Jonfun - I'm guessing you're asking 1e10 if the reservation labels contained details of where/when the seats were reserved, or if they were blank?
I don't think it's acceptable for blank reservation coupons to denote that seats are reserved for an unknown part of the journey and I don't think they should be allowed, but I'm not aware of XC doing this. I have heard of XC being unable to print labels, and therefore handwriting them (with 3-letter CRS codes e.g. 'BHM-SHF'), which is commendable when all else fails, but must have been time consuming!
Court? Easy. People objecting to getting moved out of their seats & getting stroppy. Escalates to them being thrown off train, probably with BTP involvement. Then summonsed for their behaviour under the by-laws. Off to Court & a hearing. At that point a precedent, one way or another, will be set. One day this will happen - the law of averages says it will. It will just take the right combination of circumstances. I have ceased to be amazed by what people can, and do, kick off about, even if booze or other substances aren't involved...
There are various reasons as to why people may behave inappropriately on a train. Indeed, it could (and probably has) happened with existing reservations systems on trains.
Courts will get involved if there is any unruly behaviour, but I don't think that they will get involved with reservations policy. As far as I can ascertain, TMR is a perfectly legal concept. If there was an increase in BTP involvement on XC as a result of TMR (and I'm not aware of any evidence that this is the case), then perhaps XC would have to rethink, but even then I don't think it's in the remit of the courts.
There is already plenty of case law dealing with issues of disorderly behaviour, which is all your example is. There would be no legal test of XC's ten-minute reservation system.
I sat in a seat that was available and just to be on the safe side I booked a seat from Severn Tunnel Junction to Bristol using the TMR system, just in case I was evicted from my seat (rightfully so, might I add). Absolutely bizarrely of all the seats on the entire train that I was given it just so happened to be the one I was sitting in, which worked in my favour!
Jonfun - I'm guessing you're asking 1e10 if the reservation labels contained details of where/when the seats were reserved, or if they were blank?!
There are various reasons as to why people may behave inappropriately on a train. Indeed, it could (and probably has) happened with existing reservations systems on train.
Over the past couple of months whilst travelling on XC with a seat reservation I have had to politely ask someone to move from "my" seat several times, I have been called "a selfish b*****d", been asked "where are we supposed to sit?", plus other unpleasant comments, some of the people were not aware of the overhead displays, thinking as there was no card on the seat there was no reservation.
I have also witnessed several "heated discussions" caused by XC's crazy (in my opinion)10min reservations.
It's only useful and effective for those who use it because hardly anyone knows about it.I do think XC need to promote the TMR system more, as I don't think many people know about it!
Yes, some Guards enforce completely invisible reservations, in that there is nothing to state that the seats are reserved (or even may be reserved), yet still expect people to move. That was described in the opening post and has been experienced by others. The thread has moved on to discuss other scenarios.Nope - the title of this thread suggests that XC are enforcing invisible reservations,
Yes the labels were visible, but we're none the wiser as to whether or not the reservations were on them on that occasion.but I was a little confused, because by the sound of 1e10's post, reservations were very visible indeed?
It's only useful and effective for those who use it because hardly anyone knows about it.
yorkie said:If everyone used it, no-one would be better off as everyone would be back to the position they were before, only instead of first to sit down gets the seat, it would be first to text.
And so everyone gets a seat and there is none of this 'oh you're sat in my seat' confrontation, which is exactly what XC are trying to avoid. A happy ending all round obviously?
Barring compulsory reservations, where if there's no seat you aren't sold a ticket, can you see the obvious problem with that when it comes to XC?
I'm not really understanding this? Can you elaborate further?
Not everyone can get a seat because of the heavy overcrowding on XC, whether it be by way of conventional reservations, TMR or just turning up and seeing if there are any. The only way to ensure a seat for everyone on board many XC services is compulsory reservation, i.e. turning away people from a service once all the seats are reserved. (Or up capacity, but that isn't on the agenda).
Unfortunately that is down to the no limits on the number of passengers a train can hold (which I personally think is ridiculous, but I'll save that for another time).
So you are in favour of compulsory reservation, I guess? It is an option, but it is one that is in many ways worse than overcrowding, as some people are prevented from travelling, particularly during disruption.
Yes. It happens with coaches, so why should it not be the same for trains?
With regards to disruption, I see where you're coming from but when I say a limit, I mean a REASONABLE limit, not to the point where passengers are so squashed they struggle to breathe.
Very rare, and easily avoidable by not taking the first couple of trains out in the event of disruption.