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Nottingham 'Bus War'

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Robertj21a

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Not good PR for the Really Good Bus Company - indeed, a terrible initial response to the Council.

Unfortunately as good as they undoubtedly are, Trent is also rather too often, arrogant. They have many profitable routes, and no public shareholders to satisfy, so in some areas are sitting on a lucrative near-monopoly. It's no wonder that competitors see Trent as an obvious target.
 
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the101

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Not good PR for the Really Good Bus Company - indeed, a terrible initial response to the Council.

Unfortunately as good as they undoubtedly are, Trent is also rather too often, arrogant. They have many profitable routes, and no public shareholders to satisfy, so in some areas are sitting on a lucrative near-monopoly. It's no wonder that competitors see Trent as an obvious target.

Indeed, it's not a very clever response to such an issue. Trent have lost out in the marketing/PR department since Alex Hornby left for Transdev. He is very sharp indeed and evidently replacing him is going to be difficult, if not impossible.
 

ChathillMan

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Such a response was clearly not meant for public consumption. So its a bit naughty of the town council to make it public.

It clearly could have been worded better though
 

edwin_m

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Such a response was clearly not meant for public consumption. So its a bit naughty of the town council to make it public.

It clearly could have been worded better though

I'd have thought if you say anything to a councillor you should assume it will find its way into the public domain, especially if it's badly worded.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Beeston bus service cuts reported by Evening Post.

The changes were confirmed during a meeting of Nottinghamshire County Council's transport and highways committee yesterday.

Out of 20 bus services that either pass through Beeston or along the edge of the town, according to Traveline, five are now being scrapped or revised

Read more: http://www.nottinghampost.com/Town-...tory-28482448-detail/story.html#ixzz3wg3us9bX
Follow us: @Nottingham_Post on Twitter | NottinghamPostOnline on Facebook

The services are Indigo (reduced), Club Class, 17, S1 and X36 (all discontinued). Which probably doesn't even add up to 25% of the routes, as Club Class doesn't even serve Beeston, let alone 25% of the buses.
 
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The services are Indigo (reduced), Club Class, 17, S1 and X36 (all discontinued). Which probably doesn't even add up to 25% of the routes, as Club Class doesn't even serve Beeston, let alone 25% of the buses.

And the S1 has been replaced by Nottsbus 536. And the 17 had been revamped away from Beeston to connect into the tram!
 
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The changes were confirmed during a meeting of Nottinghamshire County Council's transport and highways committee yesterday.

Out of 20 bus services that either pass through Beeston or along the edge of the town, according to Traveline, five are now being scrapped or revised

Read more: http://www.nottinghampost.com/Town-s...#ixzz3wg3us9bX
Follow us: @Nottingham_Post on Twitter | NottinghamPostOnline on Facebook

Another loaded piece of "journalism" from that esteemed organ!
First of all lets check their figures:
Oiginal frequencies - indigo 9bph, NCT36 8bph, Y36 6bph, Y5 3bph, X36/S1 2bph, TB18 2bph, NCC tendered services 2bph 17 -1bph - average daytime 33bph through beeston town centre. The reduction is therefore 15%. If we were to count club class then we need to count skylink, i4, Y4, TB21 and maybe NCT35, all of which serve the edges of Beeston. So lets not count Club Class!

It was oddly used as a "tram story" complete with hysterical vox-pops

When you look at this, there is nothing unexpected.
Indigo has gone back to its traditional network - 3bph - Derby, 3bph - Briar Gate and 3bph to Sawley now provided by Skylink. The Long Eaton shorts never added any great value. If they do get the reliability right by re-diagramming, most passengers won't notice the difference

17 - A recent re-enterent to the market, who seems to be trying to establish into a stable route. you can expect regular re-casts. It appears that Bingham looks a nore lucrative market than beeston.

X36/S1 - this never had the loadings which could support a commercial service, and is now replaced with a tendered operation.

One thing that has been very obvious since the opening of the interchange is very poor loadings for much of the day on the NCT36/Y36 between Chilwell and Beeston. I'm sure this will be stable for some time, since neither operator want to blink first. Long term I don't know what this will develop into. I am sure though that these buses would be better utilised elsewhwre in Nottingham. Beeston North / Lenton Abbey for example don't have a great service.
 
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Ginga

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Further investment is needed so Bingham’s railway station can cope with a huge increase in passengers, it has been claimed.

The number of people using Bingham station has risen by more than 10,000 according to latest figures published by the Office Of Rail Regulation.

A total of 51,778 passengers boarded or alighted at the station between April 2014 and March 2015 compared with 39,786 from April 2013 to March 2014.

Bingham’s mayor Mrs Tracey Kerry said the town’s infrastructure, public transport and parking were not adequate to cope with the increased demand.

“Our parking is already at what I would describe as a critical stage,” she said.

“As Bingham is growing at a significant rate we need more support from our controlling authorities such as Rushcliffe Borough Council and Nottinghamshire County Council.

“It is great to see new development and growth but at what cost?”

Nine parking spaces are available at the station and many rail users park on Station Street.


'Urgent need of improvement'


Mrs Kerry said the increased strain on the town’s facilities would have an impact on the viability of the town centre.

“Here in Bingham we are lucky to still have a number of independent shops, a weekly Thursday market and a farmers’ market once a month. However, these will soon start to disappear unless the relevant agencies and authorities start to listen,” she said.

“The increased parking on Station Street is causing so many issues, not only for the residents but for businesses in that area.

“The station is in urgent need of improvement.”

Mrs Kerry said the council was talking to Network Rail and other agencies to push for improvements to access, the platforms, parking and other services at the station.

Mrs Kath Vallance, chairman of the council’s carpark working group, said many people were being encouraged to catch the train to Nottingham since the town’s direct bus service to the city was scrapped.

“If this is the case then most of those now using the train could be Bingham residents who would be aware of parking problems in the town and most probably would walk,” she said.

“That said, it has long been thought that the current provision for station parking is inadequate.”


Lack of disabled access


Mrs Vallance said an area had been earmarked for station parking as part of The Crown Estate’s plans for 1,050 homes north of the railway line but it was unclear where the money for that development would come from.

“Another obvious problem with increased use of the train service is the lack of disabled access,” she said.

Network Rail wants to add ramps to the station bridge, which has steps, but the plans are being held up as half of the funding for the £1.3m project is coming from Tesco.

The supermarket will not release the money until it starts work on its store on Chapel Lane, for which it has had planning permission for almost three years.

A spokesman for Network Rail said passenger numbers were increasing nationally and had doubled in the last 20 years.

He said the increase in passengers would not change its proposals for improvements to the bridge.

A spokesman for East Midlands Trains said: “The increase in numbers at Bingham actually reflects the increase in passengers we have seen across many of our local routes, with a shift in people using public transport.”

She said the increase in passengers at Bingham could be down to people choosing to take the train due to roadworks affecting the A46 and A52.

The spokesman said there was no space at the station to extend the carpark any further and no plans to bring in additional services.


'More people are using the train than the bus now'


Mrs Julie Walkden, of The Paddock, Bingham, said: “I have lived in Bingham for 16 years and I have used the trains on and off.

“I still use the car into Nottingham but if I think there is going to be a lot of traffic, especially before Christmas, I get the train — and it avoids parking fees.

“It is only a quarter-of-an-hour into town and I think more people are using the train than the bus now.”

Mrs Walkden said she often caught the train to Grantham as a quick way of getting to the East Coast Mainline to travel to London.

Mat Marksman, 17, of Meadowsweet Hill, Bingham, said: “I have family in Birmingham and Manchester so I use the train about once a month or once every couple of months.

“I also use this line to go to Aslockton to see friends.”

Mat said he still preferred to catch the bus to Nottingham because there was a stop just outside his home.

“I’m having driving lessons and I might start driving soon,” he said.

“But the train is quicker and it beats the traffic.”
 

LowLevel

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Bottesford is busier with fewer trains calling. The whole route could stand some improvement though.
 

Pigalle

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From trentbarton.co.uk

red arrow changes to concessionary passes

Nottingham City Council are planning to recatagorise red arrow as a premium service from 1 April 2016, therefore if these plans are approved concessionary passes will no longer be valid for customers boarding the red arrow in Nottingham and at Nottingham QMC.

The Council will decide in coming weeks whether to exclude red arrow from the routes holders of an English National Concessionary Travel Card can travel on. This, says the Council, is due to the service’s limited stops,express journey times, large storage, dedicated bike racks and spacious seats with tables.

Nottingham City Council’s decision means pass holders will still be able to enjoy free travel on red arrow when boarding at Derby to travel to Nottingham, but will have to pay when travelling in the other direction from Nottingham. Derby City Council will continue to support concessionary passes on red arrow, so pass holders will still be able to enjoy free travel from Derby to Nottingham but not on the return trip. Alternatively, concessionary pass holders can use indigo and i4 which will still be free.

Once a decision has been made by Nottingham City Council we will release more information.

If you are unhappy about this decision by Nottingham City Council, please contact your local Councilors and Members of Parliament.

https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/changestoconcessionarypasses
 

edwin_m

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Apparently because it's a premium service, which seems reasonable to me considering that in its comfort level, distance between stops etc it's more akin to National Express than anything else TB operates. All the journeys it makes can also be done by other routes (i4 and Y5 as well as Indigo) although obviously much slower.

I imagine Derby will be looking at doing the same, which would remove the anomaly of it remaining free eastbound.
 

Mugby

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Interesting blog in Focus Transport today about new buses for Transdev Yorkshire's premium routes, with Chief Eexecutive Alex Hornby waxing lyrical about how wonderful his 14 new double deckers are.

Is this the same Alex Hornby who, when at TrentBarton, was firmly opposed to double deckers, saying that company research showed that passengers didn't want them?
 

SCH117X

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It is the same Alex Hornby but to put this in context the buses in question replace a fleet of double deckers dating back to 2003/4 which were well liked by their customers; they were the first in the country to feature leather seats and the route has had continuous growth in custom over the 12 year period. Other Transdev routes have seen upgraded single deckers (Shuttle Keighley-Bradford) while the long standing heavily profitable Coastliner services will a get fresh batch of double deckers this year.
 

tbone

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IT is the same Alex Hornby who has been linked to such comments but without substance.

Alex was involved with the the trial of two ADL Enviro 400s in his time at Trent Barton. The Wellglade board made the decision not to purchase them and both routes in question have added buses running instead.

I would never wish to knock what was achieved (partly by Alex) during his tenure but hew as Commercial Director and then Marketing and Communications Director. Contrary to popular belief he was not responsible for every single thing and every single decision that happened during his time there!
 

ashworth

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From trentbarton.co.uk

red arrow changes to concessionary passes

Nottingham City Council are planning to recatagorise red arrow as a premium service from 1 April 2016, therefore if these plans are approved concessionary passes will no longer be valid for customers boarding the red arrow in Nottingham and at Nottingham QMC.

The Council will decide in coming weeks whether to exclude red arrow from the routes holders of an English National Concessionary Travel Card can travel on. This, says the Council, is due to the service’s limited stops,express journey times, large storage, dedicated bike racks and spacious seats with tables.

Nottingham City Council’s decision means pass holders will still be able to enjoy free travel on red arrow when boarding at Derby to travel to Nottingham, but will have to pay when travelling in the other direction from Nottingham. Derby City Council will continue to support concessionary passes on red arrow, so pass holders will still be able to enjoy free travel from Derby to Nottingham but not on the return trip. Alternatively, concessionary pass holders can use indigo and i4 which will still be free.

Once a decision has been made by Nottingham City Council we will release more information.

If you are unhappy about this decision by Nottingham City Council, please contact your local Councilors and Members of Parliament.

https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/changestoconcessionarypasses

There was quite a bit about this on BBC Radio Nottingham this morning. From what I heard it sounds like Trent Barton are quite concerned about this proposed decision by Nottinghamshire County Council. There was also a feeling that if it happens it wouldn't be long before Derbyshire follow.

Could this be the end of the current high frequency off peak service in its current form? From what I have seen a large proportion of the passengers boarding the Red Arrow in Nottingham mid morning are older people travelling with concessionary passes. Can the current level of service be maintained without the concessionary fares. How will Trent Barton deal with this situation? Will they just cut the frequency if there are significantly less passengers or will it result in the service reverting back to ordinary buses rather than coaches?
 

edwin_m

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Presumably even if they got rid of (or downgraded) the new vehicles it would still be a limited stop service with express journey times, so the Council would probably have grounds not to change its mind.
 

derbybusdepot

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Presumably even if they got rid of (or downgraded) the new vehicles it would still be a limited stop service with express journey times, so the Council would probably have grounds not to change its mind.

Will trent barton really be too bothered about this.

Only a percentage of pass holders who use red arrow would have to continue doing so (and pay full fare) for them to make the same profit. The council only pays a small amount per journey per pass holder.

The problem they may have is a glut of people using their passes on the i4 and indigo, especially at around 9:30. If most seats are taken up end to end, there would be few seats available for passengers traveling locally (like the mainline buses they send through West Bridgeford).

Could this encourage competition? Surely any service that was quicker than the i4 or indigo to Derby would attract custom.
 

ag51ruk

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Will trent barton really be too bothered about this.

Only a percentage of pass holders who use red arrow would have to continue doing so (and pay full fare) for them to make the same profit. The council only pays a small amount per journey per pass holder.

The problem they may have is a glut of people using their passes on the i4 and indigo, especially at around 9:30. If most seats are taken up end to end, there would be few seats available for passengers traveling locally (like the mainline buses they send through West Bridgeford).

Could this encourage competition? Surely any service that was quicker than the i4 or indigo to Derby would attract custom.

Perhaps YourBus will have another go :)
 
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There was quite a bit about this on BBC Radio Nottingham this morning. From what I heard it sounds like Trent Barton are quite concerned about this proposed decision by Nottinghamshire County Council. There was also a feeling that if it happens it wouldn't be long before Derbyshire follow.

NO involvement by either County Councils here. As the terminals are both in the city centres over which the County Councils have no jurisdiction it is the devolved CITY Councils (as stated in the article) who are involved in the decision making. The service doesn't stop in either County Councils area.
 

radamfi

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Are the rules as to what services must accept the passes available anywhere?
 

ashworth

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NO involvement by either County Councils here. As the terminals are both in the city centres over which the County Councils have no jurisdiction it is the devolved CITY Councils (as stated in the article) who are involved in the decision making. The service doesn't stop in either County Councils area.

Sorry my mistake. Living in the county I often forget that the city is a separate authority.
 

Pigalle

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Are the rules as to what services must accept the passes available anywhere?

Eligible Services

1.9
The ENCTS applies on eligible local bus services as defined by the Travel
Concessions (Eligible Services) Order 2002 as amended by the Travel Concessions (Eligible Services) (Amendment) Order 2009.

1.10
The 2009 Amendment Order explicitly excludes the following types of services from the mandatory concession:

Services on which the majority of seats can be reserved in advance of travel
(such as coaches);

Services that are intended to run for a period of less than 6 consecutive
weeks;

Services operated primarily for the purposes of tourism or because of the
historical interest of the vehicle;

Bus Substitution (rail replacement) services;

Services where the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity
element.

1.11
The changes introduced by the 2009 Amendment Order explicitly exclude certain types of service that are outside of the spirit of the mandatory national concession, thus reducing the potential for any confusion over whether a service is eligible. Local authorities remain able to offer concessionary travel on any service affected by the changes on a discretionary basis.

1.12

Further information about the changes introduced by the 2009 Amendment Order
can be found at:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/concessionary/informationlocalauthorities/eligibleservices/

Source:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3621/travelconcession.pdf
 

Andyh82

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It will be an interesting test to see how many pensioners still travel if the service isn't free. I bet many will as its a leisure service now, not a lifeline from their home to the local shops.
 

radamfi

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It will be an interesting test to see how many pensioners still travel if the service isn't free. I bet many will as its a leisure service now, not a lifeline from their home to the local shops.

But there will be free, albeit slower, alternatives.
 

Robertj21a

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It will be an interesting test to see how many pensioners still travel if the service isn't free. I bet many will as its a leisure service now, not a lifeline from their home to the local shops.

I bet they won't, many are just using it for a free trip. If they can't use Red Arrow then they'll just use the other bus services to the same, or different, places.
 

tbone

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A lot of concessionary pass holders use the service to the QMC. They'll likely still need to get there and give. The significant time difference between Red Arrow and i4 I'd be surprised if they weren't prepared to pay a little.

I'm sure an OAP single ticket of £2-£2.50 could be introduced (£2.50 would be a half fare) which wouldn't break the bank for a return journey.
 

edwin_m

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A lot of concessionary pass holders use the service to the QMC. They'll likely still need to get there and give. The significant time difference between Red Arrow and i4 I'd be surprised if they weren't prepared to pay a little.

I'm sure an OAP single ticket of £2-£2.50 could be introduced (£2.50 would be a half fare) which wouldn't break the bank for a return journey.

Does anyone know if the proportion of OAPs on this service changes significantly before 0930 when they have to pay anyway? This might give an idea whether people are prepared to pay at other times of day. Someone from Derby going to QMC would often need to set out before 0930, in which case they'd have to pay anyway whichever bus they used.

OAPs will effectively get a half fare anyway, as they will still travel for free eastbound unless and until Derby council make the same change.
 

ag51ruk

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OAPs will effectively get a half fare anyway, as they will still travel for free eastbound unless and until Derby council make the same change.

Not really - the single fare is £5 which is also the daily cap on a Mango card after 9.30 (so effectively the same price as a return)
 
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