Avanti West Coast Withdraws Shrewsbury Service From June 2024

[JW4]

It seems really odd that 2J40, 20:04 Birmingham to Shrewsbury is gone, being the connecting train to Salop from the soon to be former Shrewsbury Avanti.

 

[AlanL]

This is the work of the Dft (on a desperate Govt driven money saving agenda) and sadly it will have a negative impact on the whole of Shropshire (which will again becomes the only county without a direct train to London). Passengers with mobility issues, with heavy luggage and young children do not want to be forced to change trains at Birmingham or Wolverhampton and struggle over bridges! It also shows lack of joined thinking with the Dft having spent hundreds of millions ordering 13 sets of new Hitachi 805s bimodals specifically for the Avanti Shrewsbury/North Wales services!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

enda) and sadly it will have a negative impact on the whole of Shropshire (which will again becomes the only county without a direct train to London).

I thought Rutland didn’t but appears to be a portion working to London at Kettering?

 

[JW4]

That isn’t factually correct, the county of Rutland also doesn’t have direct trains to London.

Because it has 1tpd pass through Oakham. Though you might wanna tell Wikipedia that it doesn’t stop.

There is also an infrequent East Midlands Railway service to London St Pancras.

 

[Russel]

Probably the right decision for once...

It's about time we had a look at many of these once a day journeys and weather they are actually needed.

 

[LowLevel]

Left is current timetable Birmingham to Shrewsbury
Right is June 2024 in RTT Birmingham to Shrewsbury (Avanti gone but also 20:04 WMR), why’s the 20:04 (2J40) gone, that’s what‘s supposed to be the connection from the 18:16 Avanti from Euston.
That leaves the 20:22 TFW as the connecting train from New Street (and the same train is the 20:41 connection from Wolverhampton)

There's not going to be a several hour gap in the local service - it'll appear at some point, it's only the first cut in RTT

 

[Djgr]

The token Shrewsbury service was always a political sop, but the "government" probably lacks the motivation or wherewithal for its continuation.

 

[The Planner]

This is the work of the Dft (on a desperate Govt driven money saving agenda) and sadly it will have a negative impact on the whole of Shropshire (which will again becomes the only county without a direct train to London). Passengers with mobility issues, with heavy luggage and young children do not want to be forced to change trains at Birmingham or Wolverhampton and struggle over bridges! It also shows lack of joined thinking with the Dft having spent hundreds of millions ordering 13 sets of new Hitachi 805s bimodals specifically for the Avanti Shrewsbury/North Wales services!

Its not as though the 805 is going to be sat doing nothing.

 

[dk1]

Its not as though the 805 is going to be sat doing nothing.

Exactly. It’s only a couple of trips in marginal time anyway.

 

[Failed Unit]

until they can resource their core timetable it probably is the right thing to do. I don’t know for example how much time they need to spend keeping crew knowledge up to date, but I am sure this all makes staff rostering much more challenging. it is a pity but maybe they can look at it again when they have got staff.

It is interesting some of the others routes such as Skipton are not at risk, likewise Cleethorpes (not started) and Middlesbrough still live on. But then LNER at the moment isn’t cancelling as many services because of lack of staff.

Was that services created to kill off Wrexham and Shropshire railway?

I suspect if the service was more frequent it would do well (Look at Lincoln) - But then it would probably need to take some of the paths From London Midland.

One per day services are not evil, I can’t remember how often BR used to serve the town, back in the day it went to Aberystwyth, But I think there was more than one service.

 

[The Planner]

Was that services created to kill off Wrexham and Shropshire railway?

It didn't need to be created to kill WSMR, that service was uneconomical and would have died on its own eventually anyway.

 

[dk1]

One per day services are not evil, I can’t remember how often BR used to serve the town, back in the day it went to Aberystwyth, But I think there was more than one service.

BR withdrew all intercity services from Shrewsbury in the past to eliminate a small pocket of diesel locos and I think Virgin tried & failed in pre-Voyager days. It’s just history repeating itself. I don’t count Wrexham & Shropshire as that was quite a basket case in itself.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It also shows lack of joined thinking with the Dft having spent hundreds of millions ordering 13 sets of new Hitachi 805s bimodals specifically for the Avanti Shrewsbury/North Wales services!

They didn't.
Avanti (First/Trenitalia) ordered the 805 fleet via Rock Rail/Standard Life who funded them.
If they are not used by Avanti they will be available elsewhere on the network.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It’s a lot easier to take a family out to Euston on a train than any sort of car! Try any family of 5+ with luggage and space in a normal sized car.

But it's an Anytime fare, so it's eye-wateringly expensive for a whole family, they were never going to catch it. They'll drive to Crewe or Wolverhampton and board there, saving themselves lots of money.

Just another way for the railway to make the experience slightly worse for its passengers.

Pesky railway, making some trains longer and removing slow through trains with faster ones with one change.

This is the work of the Dft (on a desperate Govt driven money saving agenda) and sadly it will have a negative impact on the whole of Shropshire (which will again becomes the only county without a direct train to London). Passengers with mobility issues, with heavy luggage and young children do not want to be forced to change trains at Birmingham or Wolverhampton and struggle over bridges! It also shows lack of joined thinking with the Dft having spent hundreds of millions ordering 13 sets of new Hitachi 805s bimodals specifically for the Avanti Shrewsbury/North Wales services!

BR, Virgin, Shropshire, Avanti have all had a go at running these trains. Not one of them could get them to work! Leads me to think there isn't the market for them that people want there to be.
The forums favourite wheelchair-bound, blind, elderly, luggage-laden passenger might (and only might) prefer a through train at an arbitrary time that may, or may not, suit them. But, overall, a more regular local service is of far more use.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Quite frankly, these services don't seem to make much sense to me...

One train to and from London per day, which has to make the trip to and from Birmingham/Wolverhampton before/after the service runs each day?

I do wonder whether Avanti will run a different service instead or just let the unit leave the depot later in the day instead.

The Lincoln service used to be like that - aimed at business travellers, (but generally missing the target) and with a lot of dead mileage - to and from Leeds, 70 miles each way.

For Shrewsbury and Lincoln alike, the people who would most find a through service most useful (those visiting family, and tourists) are not attracted to a train that arrives in the city in late evening (9pm) and sets off back to London before breakfast (7am)

Last time I did use the Lincoln service (traveling on personal business, shortly before the all-day service was introduced) I met a number of people from Lincoln who had been on a business trip - but they were leaving the train at Newark because that had left their car there that morning because the morning train was not convenient.

Of course, Lincoln now has a useful every 2 hours service, and long cold waits at Newark Northwind are a thing of the past. At least Shrewsbury passengers have better facilities at their interchange station.

It’s a lot easier to take a family out to Euston on a train than any sort of car! Try any family of 5+ with luggage and space in a normal sized car.

A departure from Shrewsbury at 7am is hardly family friendly

Probably the right decision for once...

It's about time we had a look at many of these once a day journeys and weather they are actually needed.

Or run at the right time

 

[Bletchleyite]

A departure from Shrewsbury at 7am is hardly family friendly

And incredibly expensive, because on weekdays both services weren't off peak. They were aimed at business travel which as we know has tanked.

The Saturday ones were busy, but most people on those could probably have changed.

 

[JW4]

Another part of the West Midlands Rail Investment Strategy falls by the wayside.

Service changes

By 2026: More services between London and Shrewsbury

2026-2031: Hourly service between London and Shrewsbury (HS2 Phase 2a dependent)

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Because it has 1tpd pass through Oakham. Though you might wanna tell Wikipedia that it doesn’t stop.

It does stop, doesn't it? 08.27 from Oakham, coupled to a Nottingham service at Kettering, arrives St Pancras 10.05.

Melton/Oakham service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C55117/2024-02-21/detailed

Nottingham service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C54546/2024-02-21/detailed

(I've linked to yesterday's RTT as today it appears to have started from Corby...)

 

[JW4]

It does stop, doesn't it? 08.27 from Oakham, coupled to a Nottingham service at Kettering, arrives St Pancras 10.05.

Melton/Oakham service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C55117/2024-02-21/detailed

Nottingham service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C54546/2024-02-21/detailed

(I've linked to yesterday's RTT as today it appears to have started from Corby...)

Huh, seems Alan L was right

The Government have announced plans to axe direct trains between Telford and London ❌

This completely undermines efforts to improve rail travel in the borough and is another example of government forcing the removal of services here.
It flies in the face of levelling up which gov’t has made one of its key pledges.

The move will weaken regional rail services, stunting growth in one of the fastest growing towns in the country and a place the Dept’of Business called Telford ‘the beating heart’ of UK investment

https://x.com/cllrshaundavies/status/1760643598603743549?s=61&t=0CCHX-NwkEbQmreLdrl2ew

https://x.com/cllrshaundavies/status/1760643611673182470?s=61&t=0CCHX-NwkEbQmreLdrl2ew

Shaun Davies - Leader of Telford and Wrekin Council, and Labour candidate for Telford at the next general election - has tweeted about the plans.

 

[rower40]

Excuse me while I shunt my train-of-thought down memory siding lane, specifically late 1970s, early 1980s.

At the start and end of each term, my boarding school (in Shrewsbury) used to buy a group ticket for the 50 or more pupils based closer to London (or those returning to parents posted overseas). Almost always, we were booked onto the through train, though I remember a few instances in the down direction when we had to change at Wolverhampton onto a 1st-generation DMU. Gaining familiarity with railway operation by this commute has stood me in good stead in my (so far) 36 year railway career.

So the loss of a through service doesn't just impact on businessmen and holidaymakers. Won't somebody think of the children?

 

[sansyy]

To be more clear on my comment regarding families, it was more a general comment than this specific service. I totally agree that it should be replaced with a local WMR Birmingham service and allow a connection to London Euston then but I do still think that families would generally prefer public transport like the train for travel down south considering ULEZ, congestion charges and other scrutiny in place for road users. Not to mention transport links in London is some of the best in the country. It is just the better option when it comes down to travelling to London, but if you're travelling somewhere else then a car would most likely be preferred!

 

[Bald Rick]

but I do still think that families would generally prefer public transport like the train for travel down south considering ULEZ, congestion charges and other scrutiny in place for road users. Not to mention transport links in London is some of the best in the country. It is just the better option when it comes down to travelling to London, but if you're travelling somewhere else then a car would most likely be preferred!

Depends what you mean by “London”. If you are doing the tourist thing in the centre, then yes - by train. Anywhere else, the families will be much more likely to drive. And ULEZ really isn’t an issue for over 90% of car owners.

 

[Llanigraham]

Or use TfW up to Crewe and get a fast train from there (often faster, but higher fare).

Which isn't that convenient coming off the Cambrian, as I do. At the times I travel it is much better and easier changing at Birmingham New St on the way to London and International on the way back

 

[TUC]

Large families normally have 7 seaters. Driving to Birmingham Intl or Wolves may be attractive.

7 seaters are expensiv.

Define 'large family'. For many years my wife and I with three children all squashed with luggage into a 5 seater for affordability reasons..

 

[Bletchleyite]

7 seaters are expensiv.

Define 'large family'. For many years my wife and I with three children all squashed with luggage into a 5 seater for affordability reasons..

Replied here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/7-seat-cars.263189/

 

[D6975]

This is the work of the Dft (on a desperate Govt driven money saving agenda) and sadly it will have a negative impact on the whole of Shropshire (which will again becomes the only county without a direct train to London).

????
Really?
I can think of a whole bundle of counties that don't have a direct service to London.

 

[Sniffingmoose]

Anytime return Shrewsbury to London via Birmingham is £218! It dont think many families will miss this train Monday to Friday.

For example, A family of 2 adults and 2 children decides to use use the direct Avanti train out and backand have a day out in London. The price is £654. Who is going to choose that? May be they buy a family & friends railcard which gets the price down somewhat but its still costs too much and the Avanti service has been too unreliable of late.

Now please correct me if I am wrong but to run the service the driver would need a taxi from Oxley to Central Rivers then empty stock Central Rivers to Shrewsbury via Birmingham.

Sadly I think its time to end the service.

We used to have a stupidly priced peak train to London from where I live at Burton on Trent, the train reversed at Derby. It was always fairly empty. The local MP used to use it though.

 

[AJDesiro]

Now please correct me if I am wrong but to run the service the driver would need a taxi from Oxley to Central Rivers then empty stock Central Rivers to Shrewsbury via Birmingham.

There is an ECS from Central Rivers to Birmingham, but that is diagrammed as a 10 carriage voyager, with 5 carriages splitting off at Birmingham to go to Holyhead in passenger service, with the other 5 carriages heading to Shrewsbury ECS.

 

[Kite159]

I wonder how long the Wrexham extension has before that also faces the axe. Assuming TfW can plug the missing gap by diverting the 1826 Holyhead to Crewe service to Shrewsbury

 

[dk1]

Anytime return Shrewsbury to London via Birmingham is £218! It dont think many families will miss this train Monday to Friday.

For example, A family of 2 adults and 2 children decides to use use the direct Avanti train out and backand have a day out in London. The price is £654. Who is going to choose that? May be they buy a family & friends railcard which gets the price down somewhat but its still costs too much and the Avanti service has been too unreliable of late.

Now please correct me if I am wrong but to run the service the driver would need a taxi from Oxley to Central Rivers then empty stock Central Rivers to Shrewsbury via Birmingham.

Sadly I think its time to end the service.

We used to have a stupidly priced peak train to London from where I live at Burton on Trent, the train reversed at Derby. It was always fairly empty. The local MP used to use it though.

You have to laugh