Class 458/5

infobleep · 3 Sep 2014

This morning the 8.07 to Waterloo was short formed and they cancelled the Surbiton stop. Annoying as it is, I understand why they do this but given that they do and the gap between services to Surbiton for some passengers would be an hour, with most having to wait 30+ minutes, would passengers be allowed to double back from Waterloo or would they be required to wait the extra time? They would of course miss any connections at Surbiton.

I know this project has overrun but was it always expected that they would have short formations whilst trains were being redeveloped?

I do think it's good that they seem to share the problem between all services. So it's not always the same services that are short formed with possible cancelled stops.

RailUK Forums

SWTuser · 3 Sep 2014

10:19 Isleworth to Waterloo formed again with 10 carriages first time in a few weeks on a Wednesday with 458533 leading

theblackwatch · 3 Sep 2014

infobleep said:
I know this project has overrun but was it always expected that they would have short formations whilst trains were being redeveloped?

As the project is over a year behind schedule, there really should be more 5-car sets in service by now, which would have at least eased things a bit if there are short formations. It doesn't help that the 456 overhaul programme seems to be delayed too.

Hopefully there'll be some good (long term) news for SWT passengers very soon...

Dr_Intoxicated · 3 Sep 2014

As a passenger from Feltham I am not that bothered by the late introduction of these trains, as the new 10 car trains will have negligible extra seats (if any) over the 8 car 450s.

I will still have to stand on the services that currently arrive at Feltham already full.

At least at present I can travel first class to Waterloo if I go via Hounslow and if I get to Waterloo early enough in the evenings I can travel first class back to Feltham via Richmond.

randompixel · 3 Sep 2014

From my experience the 458/5 from Windsor ALWAYS has empty seats as far as Whitton in the mornings.

Most people at Feltham don't bother walking backwards.

455driver · 3 Sep 2014

Dr_Intoxicated said:
As a passenger from Feltham I am not that bothered by the late introduction of these trains, as the new 10 car trains will have negligible extra seats (if any) over the 8 car 450s.

I will still have to stand on the services that currently arrive at Feltham already full.

Thats because the 2 new coaches were put in the middle of the train and not at the front.

infobleep · 3 Sep 2014

Selfishly on some services I don't want people walking back to find seats as it might be they take up all the seats by the time I board. With them standing I have more chance of walking back to find a seat!

FOH · 3 Sep 2014

randompixel said:
From my experience the 458/5 from Windsor ALWAYS has empty seats as far as Whitton in the mornings.

Most people at Feltham don't bother walking backwards.

This was my annoying experience from Basingstoke. I used to sit on the last carriage on a 444 which was always half-empty at most. SWT switched the service to a 12 car 450 citing overcrowding from Woking. It turned out they all piled on at the front to be first on the tube at Waterloo.

hassaanhc · 3 Sep 2014

randompixel said:
From my experience the 458/5 from Windsor ALWAYS has empty seats as far as Whitton in the mornings.

Most people at Feltham don't bother walking backwards.

Whitton is actually the first station after leaving Windsor where coaches 9 & 10 are in the platform, and the entrance also lines up with those coaches, so I can understand your observation.
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Dr_Intoxicated said:
As a passenger from Feltham I am not that bothered by the late introduction of these trains, as the new 10 car trains will have negligible extra seats (if any) over the 8 car 450s.

I will still have to stand on the services that currently arrive at Feltham already full.

At least at present I can travel first class to Waterloo if I go via Hounslow and if I get to Waterloo early enough in the evenings I can travel first class back to Feltham via Richmond.

I'm sorry but the trains via Hounslow are Standard Class only, even if they have a First Class section. Only two evening services via Hounslow that started from Reading have First advertised
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

FOH said:
This was my annoying experience from Basingstoke. I used to sit on the last carriage on a 444 which was always half-empty at most. SWT switched the service to a 12 car 450 citing overcrowding from Woking. It turned out they all piled on at the front to be first on the tube at Waterloo.

I find that so annoying. loads of evening departures from Waterloo I see a decent amount of space in the front coaches (sometimes even several seats in front 3 coaches of a 10.444 to somewhere) while the coaches closer to the barriers are wedged.

arty762 · 3 Sep 2014

Temple said:
47727 (Rebecca) did the honours on a late 5X58 with 8030 behind.

I'm pretty sure there are different translators for Dellner and Tightlock couplings, which is one way you can tell which move is going to be made next.

yes robin is still sat in top yard with two translators for the 456 units.

Bigfoot · 3 Sep 2014

hassaanhc said:
Whitton is actually the first station after leaving Windsor where coaches 9 & 10 are in the platform, and the entrance also lines up with those coaches, so I can understand your observation.

Sadly you forgot that staines has a 10 coach platform....

STEVIEBOY1 · 3 Sep 2014

swt_passenger said:
The letter cards are reversible to give the other options, it was pointed out a few thousand posts ago...

Oh ok, sorry.

By the way I also notice that these new trains don't have indicators on the side of at least one of the coaches, unlike to the Blue and the White Desiros.

hassaanhc · 3 Sep 2014

Bigfoot said:
Sadly you forgot that staines has a 10 coach platform....

And Ashford! :oops:

for some reason I was recalling the short platform announcement of 8 coaches at Feltham and Wraysbury, so completely forgot those in between :oops:

3141 · 3 Sep 2014

I find that so annoying. loads of evening departures from Waterloo I see a decent amount of space in the front coaches (sometimes even several seats in front 3 coaches of a 10.444 to somewhere) while the coaches closer to the barriers are wedged.

And some of those people complain about how crowded trains are, it's impossible to find a seat, and "they" ought to do something like making the trains longer!

hassaanhc · 4 Sep 2014

3141 said:
And some of those people complain about how crowded trains are, it's impossible to find a seat, and "they" ought to do something like making the trains longer!

Exactly

:P

I'll get my coat...

Dr_Intoxicated · 4 Sep 2014

randompixel said:
From my experience the 458/5 from Windsor ALWAYS has empty seats as far as Whitton in the mornings.

Most people at Feltham don't bother walking backwards.

Thanks for the tip, I will try catching one in that case, I don't normally get the one that is sheduled to be a the 458/5
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm sorry but the trains via Hounslow are Standard Class only, even if they have a First Class section. Only two evening services via Hounslow that started from Reading have First advertised
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know this, I meant that I can sit in a seat which would be 1st class on another service as I am sure you knew, but thanks for the information

WWTownEnth · 5 Sep 2014

458532 in service this morning on the Hounslow Loop, paired with 458534

Any news on when a third ten car train will be plying one of these routes?

458501 Wimbledon - testing
458502 Wimbledon - testing
458503 Doncaster - under rebuild
458504 Doncaster - under rebuild
458530 Doncaster - under rebuild

458531 In service
458532 In service
458533 In service
458534 In service
458535 In service
458536 Doncaster - nearing completion

infobleep · 5 Sep 2014

The 4.37pm Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham is now regularly a 450 with first class declassified as is the 8.36. Nice silver lining for some passengers.

HarleyDavidson · 5 Sep 2014

infobleep said:
The 4.37pm Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham is now regularly a 450 with first class declassified as is the 8.36. Nice silver lining for some passengers.

It's only a temporary thing, it's not fixed or permanent and it has been formed of a 455 since the 450's temporary introduction.

Bishopstone · 5 Sep 2014

hassaanhc said:
I find that so annoying. loads of evening departures from Waterloo I see a decent amount of space in the front coaches (sometimes even several seats in front 3 coaches of a 10.444 to somewhere) while the coaches closer to the barriers are wedged.

In that case, when longer trains are introduced, they should put the extra carriages at the barrier end rather than the country end.

arty762 · 5 Sep 2014

The only units on shed tonight(Friday 18.00 hrs ) are 501 and 535 both on 7 road.

Smod · 5 Sep 2014

I passed Doncaster today. There are several 460 cars outside that were still in Gatwick Express livery, so I'm guessing that work hasn't started on them yet. Even given the snail's pace progress of the project so far, I would have expected they would have these converted and ready to add to the 458/0 units as they went through works. But what do I know?

455driver · 5 Sep 2014

Smod said:
I passed Doncaster today. There are several 460 cars outside that were still in Gatwick Express livery, so I'm guessing that work hasn't started on them yet. Even given the snail's pace progress of the project so far, I would have expected they would have these converted and ready to add to the 458/0 units as they went through works. But what do I know?

There are still 25 458/0s to be modified, why change all 25 ex460 coaches before they are needed?
While those 25 coaches are being converted they wont be able to convert 5 458/0s to 458/5s as they can only do one thing at a time!

hassaanhc · 5 Sep 2014

Bishopstone said:
In that case, when longer trains are introduced, they should put the extra carriages at the barrier end rather than the country end.

Longer trains means the front of the train will be further away from the barriers, regardless of the position in the train the additional coaches are!

If more people bothered to walk right to the front it would be helpful, and as train lengths increase this distance would only get longer.

455driver · 5 Sep 2014

hassaanhc said:
Longer trains means the front of the train will be further away from the barriers, regardless of the position in the train the additional coaches are! If more people bothered to walk right to the front it would be helpful, and as train lengths increase this distance would only get longer.

He is referring to the fact that commuters have to get on the end of the train closest to the barriers so that end of the train is crush loaded but the part furthest from the barriers will be much more lightly loaded.

For the 'front enders' to use the extra carriages they would need to be at the barrier end of the train, this is obviously not possible so the overcrowding wont improve at the front but those with a bit more sense will have a much better journey to work.

I have seen a 12 coach train go past me with the front 2 coaches absolutely rammed but the back coach had about 6 people in it, there is nothing the railway can do to prevent that situation and it is all down to people with their 'I must be the first off the train' stupidity.

hassaanhc · 5 Sep 2014

455driver said:
He is referring to the fact that commuters have to get on the end of the train closest to the barriers so that end of the train is crush loaded but the part furthest from the barriers will be much more lightly loaded.

For the 'front enders' to use the extra carriages they would need to be at the barrier end of the train, this is obviously not possible so the overcrowding wont improve at the front but those with a bit more sense will have a much better journey to work.

I have seen a 12 coach train go past me with the front 2 coaches absolutely rammed but the back coach had about 6 people in it, there is nothing the railway can do to prevent that situation and it is all down to people with their 'I must be the first off the train' stupidity.

Fair point :P. I'm sure those people would be the first to complain about "overcrowding" :roll:. And majority of them just be aware about the space at one end but choose not to use it :?

. Anyway, they're the ones making their commute and that of others around them worse than it should be :lol:

.

infobleep · 6 Sep 2014

I was at Clapham Junction on Thursday morning looking across to platform 10. Every carriage from front to back seemed to be rammed. So perhaps people on the lines through Wimbledon are more aware of moving down or perhaps it's just the layout at Clapham Junction which encourages people to spread out, as it has a footbridge and subway, both with entrances from the outside world.

455driver · 6 Sep 2014

The outer suburban trains are the worst for the back of the train being empty (in the morning), the inner suburban ones are rammed from front to back regardless.

spark001uk · 6 Sep 2014

infobleep said:
I was at Clapham Junction on Thursday morning looking across to platform 10. Every carriage from front to back seemed to be rammed. So perhaps people on the lines through Wimbledon are more aware of moving down or perhaps it's just the layout at Clapham Junction which encourages people to spread out, as it has a footbridge and subway, both with entrances from the outside world.

I see you corrected yourself there, I was wondering what a "Corrimony age" was !!

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455driver said:
The outer suburban trains are the worst for the back of the train being empty (in the morning), the inner suburban ones are rammed from front to back regardless.

I remember years ago I used to go up to Waterloo early morning quite a lot, and it was always the same, rammed at the front, plus evryone walking as far forward as they can after Vauxhall, presumably to be the first out of the gate at the terminus.

Dr_Intoxicated · 6 Sep 2014

Getting on at Feltham in the morning is difficult as the entrance is at the rear of the London bound platform.

As well as the "I must get into the first 2 coaches to get off first mentality" there is the 2I stop on the platform as soon as I am through the barrier types" so the back end of the platform at Feltham is also quite busy.

I have found that all things considered getting on at the back still gives the best chance of a seat. If I see that the 7:46 is running with all 10 coaches next week I will try and leave home 30 mins early, get on at the back and walk back to the rear 2 coaches.

Class 458/5

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