Class 458/5

[Goldfish62]

View attachment 19517

8030 minus its shoegear awaiting dispatch to Doncaster

Probably explains why we're back to short formations on Reading services.

 

[Juniper Driver]

View attachment 19517

8030 minus its shoegear awaiting dispatch to Doncaster

Gonna miss you 8030,take care.x

 

[hassaanhc]

Incorrect - yesterday morning had a 10 car on the Hounslow diagram. I don't know when it got pulled, but it certainly made it to Weybridge.

Oops, thanks for the correction there .
Hope tomorrow manages to get all 4 out all day

 

[WWTownEnth]

Monday morning and the 10 car on the Hounslow circular has been cancelled due to "a Train fault".

Does anyone know what is actually going on with this thing? Are they waiting for a part, does it need to go back to Wabtec or it is just screwed beyond help?

I'm not sure both units have worked a full day in the last three weeks.

 

[hassaanhc]

Monday morning and the 10 car on the Hounslow circular has been cancelled due to "a Train fault".

Does anyone know what is actually going on with this thing? Are they waiting for a part, does it need to go back to Wabtec or it is just screwed beyond help?

I'm not sure both units have worked a full day in the last three weeks.

The 0725 from Wandsworth Town (0615 from Waterloo) ran fast from Putney to Waterloo, as it was 5 coaches. That would show up as a cancellation at the affected stations.

 

[theblackwatch]

67601,74431,74001,74101,67001

Thanks for that, cleared up some confusion!

 

[455driver]

Gonna miss you 8030,take care.x

Always seemed a good one, not as good as 8001 though!

 

[user15681]

There's a 5X58 from Wimbledon to Wabtec tonight at 2335, so that'll be 8030 off this evening.

 

[carriageline]

May be a stupid question, but why does it run as an out of gauge load (*X**)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[infobleep]

The 17.53 Waterloo to Basingstoke is short formed today resulting in the Surbiton stop being cancelled. That's a popular stop so I imagine the trains surrounding it will be busy.

I don't remember quite the same number of short formations last summer but I won't claim my memory of such things is perfect. So did the coaching stock problems exist just the same last year? If not what's changed?

I thought they were just rebuilding trains previously used by other networks or are they reconstructing existing trains?

 

[swt_passenger]

The 17.53 Waterloo to Basingstoke is short formed today resulting in the Surbiton stop being cancelled. That's a popular stop so I imagine the trains surrounding it will be busy.

I don't remember quite the same number of short formations last summer but I won't claim my memory of such things is perfect. So did the coaching stock problems exist just the same last year? If not what's changed?

They weren't trying to introduce 458/5s last year. Surely that's the root cause of any short formations, and what this thread has been discussing for weeks?

 

[hassaanhc]

Monday morning and the 10 car on the Hounslow circular has been cancelled due to "a Train fault".

Does anyone know what is actually going on with this thing? Are they waiting for a part, does it need to go back to Wabtec or it is just screwed beyond help?

I'm not sure both units have worked a full day in the last three weeks.

Full 10 cars managed to get out eventually. 8533+8531 from the 1245 Waterloo>Hounslow via Richmond, I boarded it at Hounslow for the 1331 return via Brentford . SWT actually showed the short formation until the previous trip only.
Still doesn't meet your criteria of full 4 units doing everything booked .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They weren't trying to introduce 458/5s last year. Surely that's the root cause of any short formations, and what this thread has been discussing for weeks?

Wasn't following SWT this time last year, but what you said is probably true. I think the introduction was to release units to both strengthen other trains, and to provide more leeway for failures, which hasn't worked out.
The current policy seems to be to remove stops to reduce chance of delays due to excessive dwell. Can see the reasoning behind it even though many passengers won't agree (although the case of the 1737 Waterloo>Hounslow being run fast to Putney, and departing 6 late to cover for the missed stops, is most odd :?).

 

[arty762]

as of 18.00 hrs Monday, 501 and 532 are the only units on shed , both on 7 road.

 

[gswindale]

I thought they were just rebuilding trains previously used by other networks or are they reconstructing existing trains?

It is a combination of both; converting both the 458/0 and 460 into 458/5.

In theory the 456s from Southern could have freed up 455s which then can substitute for 450s on some routes to allow them to cover any 458s out of action.

 

[arty762]

8030 is sitting on 10 road , awaiting departure, colas 47's Rebecca and Robin of Templecome are still sat in top yard shut down, Robin is coupled to two translators , but has been here all week, Rebecca is light engine and arrived on Friday or Saturday night, don't know which one is heading north tonight.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's a 5X58 from Wimbledon to Wabtec tonight at 2335, so that'll be 8030 off this evening.

showing as 563B to Doncaster works wgn shops depart at 23.35 , but which 47 will it be ? might have to take a wander over there later and have a look.

 

[user15681]

8030 is sitting on 10 road , awaiting departure, colas 47's Rebecca and Robin of Templecome are still sat in top yard shut down, Robin is coupled to two translators , but has been here all week, Rebecca is light engine and arrived on Friday or Saturday night, don't know which one is heading north tonight.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


showing as 563B to Doncaster works wgn shops depart at 23.35 , but which 47 will it be ? might have to take a wander over there later and have a look.

Not sure which 47 it'll be I'm afraid.
(Rebecca worked LE 0Y63 from Eastleigh to Wimbledon at lunchtime on Saturday by the way)

 

[infobleep]

They weren't trying to introduce 458/5s last year. Surely that's the root cause of any short formations, and what this thread has been discussing for weeks?

Could they not revert to the formations in use last year until they have more rolling stock and only strengthen trains where possible? I'm not expert so it might be totally the wrong approach.

 

[infobleep]

It is a combination of both; converting both the 458/0 and 460 into 458/5.

In theory the 456s from Southern could have freed up 455s which then can substitute for 450s on some routes to allow them to cover any 458s out of action.

That makes sense then.

 

[arty762]

Not sure which 47 it'll be I'm afraid.
(Rebecca worked LE 0Y63 from Eastleigh to Wimbledon at lunchtime on Saturday by the way)

i am curious as to why Rebecca came up when Robin and all four translators are already here , i will have to try find out.

 

[Juniper Driver]

They weren't trying to introduce 458/5s last year. Surely that's the root cause of any short formations, and what this thread has been discussing for weeks?

Noticed two desiro sets down the Reading road and worked a 458/5 10 car round the Hounslow loop.Announcement played up @ St Margarets.Was never right after that.

 

[hassaanhc]

Noticed two desiro sets down the Reading road and worked a 458/5 10 car round the Hounslow loop.Announcement played up @ St Margarets.Was never right after that.

There has been a single 450 rounder to Reading for a long time. Works out of Waterloo as the 1635 (having been ex-Weymouth!) And returning to London as the 1812. There is also the 1705 Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot which uses a 450 pair. Wonder if it was these you saw?
No idea what happened to announcements, had no problems when I got the 1331 from Hounslow (although it missed out the short platform announcements at both Isleworth and Syon Lane. Wasn't on board on approach to Hounslow).

 

[Juniper Driver]

There has been a single 450 rounder to Reading for a long time. Works out of Waterloo as the 1635 (having been ex-Weymouth!) And returning to London as the 1812. There is also the 1705 Waterloo to Aldershot via Richmond and Ascot which uses a 450 pair. Wonder if it was these you saw?
No idea what happened to announcements, had no problems when I got the 1331 from Hounslow (although it missed out the short platform announcements at both Isleworth and Syon Lane. Wasn't on board on approach to Hounslow).

Oh yeah,forgot about Aldershot.Doh.I had 8015+8021.531+534 round the slowhounds loop.First time I've been in 531.

No idea what happened to announcements, had no problems when I got the 1331 from Hounslow (although it missed out the short platform announcements at both Isleworth and Syon Lane. Wasn't on board on approach to Hounslow).

Guard told me if driver puts wrong code in then it doesn't do the short platform announcements.As this guard is training other guards on this stock he probably knows a bit more than me.The TMS on 531+534 didn't seem right.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I traveled on one of these 10 coach trains last night around 1845 ish all the way from Richmond to to Twickenham. The seats looked more like those in the Juniper trains, than compared with the the blue desiros, although in 2 x 2 formation. It seemed quite spacious though and not so cramped as the blue desiros and junipers are. There were several announcements about which coaches to alight from at certain stations. I noticed each coach was marked with a letter A-K I think, does that mean that 2 five car sets will always be pared together, other wise you could get A - E Twice for example?
I think the one I was on was 535.

 

[infobleep]

Another short formation this morning. This time it's the 8.12 from Reading to Waterloo, which also misses out Clapham Junction. The 9.50 back is also short formed but doesn't need to miss out stops.

The late delivery of these services; short formations and the having to cancel calling points must be costing South West Trains money. Is there anything they can do to recover such loses or are they making enough profit already to cover these extra costs?

 

[swt_passenger]

I traveled on one of these 10 coach trains last night around 1845 ish all the way from Richmond to to Twickenham. The seats looked more like those in the Juniper trains, than compared with the the blue desiros, although in 2 x 2 formation. It seemed quite spacious though and not so cramped as the blue desiros and junipers are. There were several announcements about which coaches to alight from at certain stations. I noticed each coach was marked with a letter A-K I think, does that mean that 2 five car sets will always be pared together, other wise you could get A - E Twice for example?
I think the one I was on was 535.

The letter cards are reversible to give the other options, it was pointed out a few thousand posts ago...

There were also a number of ideas going around about what would happen to the seats, before the first units converted from 5 ex 460 cars turned up it was assumed they were getting replacement seats throughout. But the 460s already had 'similar' seats to 458s, although in 2+2 with arms.

I always assumed the 458 2+3 seating would just be mounted on new supports as 2+2, so Juniper style would be guaranteed for them - a whole replacement would be a fairly high cost with no benefit.

So did the 460 cars get new seats, or not? Are the small areas with tables by the gangways in the front and rear cars (assumed to be passive provision for first class if needed in future) original 460 seats?

Someone will know the exact details presumably, especially now we have a few examples of both types of unit in service (ie ex 460 and now ex 458)...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

i am curious as to why Rebecca came up when Robin and all four translators are already here , i will have to try find out.

As a layman, I'd guess they need to be able to cover collections and deliveries to/from Wolverton and Doncaster separately if they happen to be needed in similar timescales.

As an aside, do they have different translator vans for 458/0 and 458/5 because of the coupling change, or are the translators adaptable?

 

[hassaanhc]

Oh yeah,forgot about Aldershot.Doh.I had 8015+8021.531+534 round the slowhounds loop.First time I've been in 531.



Guard told me if driver puts wrong code in then it doesn't do the short platform announcements.As this guard is training other guards on this stock he probably knows a bit more than me.The TMS on 531+534 didn't seem right.

Actually was 531+533 yesterday . Yeah there were two guards when I was on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The letter cards are reversible to give the other options, it was pointed out a few thousand posts ago...

There were also a number of ideas going around about what would happen to the seats, before the first units converted from 5 ex 460 cars turned up it was assumed they were getting replacement seats throughout. But the 460s already had 'similar' seats to 458s, although in 2+2 with arms.

I always assumed the 458 2+3 seating would just be mounted on new supports as 2+2, so Juniper style would be guaranteed for them - a whole replacement would be a fairly high cost with no benefit.

So did the 460 cars get new seats, or not? Are the small areas with tables by the gangways in the front and rear cars (assumed to be passive provision for first class if needed in future) original 460 seats?

Someone will know the exact details presumably, especially now we have a few examples of both types of unit in service (ie ex 460 and now ex 458)...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



As a layman, I'd guess they need to be able to cover collections and deliveries to/from Wolverton and Doncaster separately if they happen to be needed in similar timescales.

As an aside, do they have different translator vans for 458/0 and 458/5 because of the coupling change, or are the translators adaptable?

The extreme ends of cars still keep full tables and armrests. Everywhere else do not, although seat-back tables remain.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I traveled on one of these 10 coach trains last night around 1845 ish all the way from Richmond to to Twickenham. The seats looked more like those in the Juniper trains, than compared with the the blue desiros, although in 2 x 2 formation. It seemed quite spacious though and not so cramped as the blue desiros and junipers are. There were several announcements about which coaches to alight from at certain stations. I noticed each coach was marked with a letter A-K I think, does that mean that 2 five car sets will always be pared together, other wise you could get A - E Twice for example?
I think the one I was on was 535.

Interiors of those are very spacious, loads of legroom available on the facing seats, and removal of 3rd seats always leads to a less cramped feeling.

 

[user15681]

47727 (Rebecca) did the honours on a late 5X58 with 8030 behind.

I'm pretty sure there are different translators for Dellner and Tightlock couplings, which is one way you can tell which move is going to be made next.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Actually was 531+533 yesterday . Yeah there were two guards when I was on it.

Damn,looks like I wasn't paying attention to the back unit.

I will see what I wrote on the diagram.
Well it was my debut on 531 anyway.

 

[Goldfish62]

The letter cards are reversible to give the other options, it was pointed out a few thousand posts ago...

There were also a number of ideas going around about what would happen to the seats, before the first units converted from 5 ex 460 cars turned up it was assumed they were getting replacement seats throughout. But the 460s already had 'similar' seats to 458s, although in 2+2 with arms.

I always assumed the 458 2+3 seating would just be mounted on new supports as 2+2, so Juniper style would be guaranteed for them - a whole replacement would be a fairly high cost with no benefit.

So did the 460 cars get new seats, or not?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

?

The seats from the 460s have been used. You can see where the plugs have been fitted to cover the holes from the removed armrests. The seats frames are also grey rather than beige.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interiors of those are very spacious, loads of legroom available on the facing seats, and removal of 3rd seats always leads to a less cramped feeling.

I agree, although looking at seat pitch compared with the 458/0s the legroom appears to be identical. I think it's the spacers between the seats that creates the overall feeling of more space.

I just wish they'd done something with the toilets and not left them in "used" condition - seems very odd considering the thorough work done on the rest of the train.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Actually was 531+533 yesterday . Yeah there were two guards when I was on it.

Must have been,saw them out and about yesterday.Two sets out.