LM 319 cascade progress

Tetchytyke · 17 Jul 2015

Yet more overcrowding I expect.

I leave for a new job in Newcastle in a fortnight. I won't miss London Midland one little bit.

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Techniquest · 17 Jul 2015

See I don't have these issues at this end of the LM empire, they normally do a rather decent job on my route. So much better than we had it in Central Trains days!

Good luck in Newcastle!

childwallblues · 18 Jul 2015

Posted on another forum is that 319216 has gone off lease from GTR to Wolverton for transfer to LM.

Techniquest · 18 Jul 2015

Woop,another one I don't need, only two more to discover the IDs of before I inevitably find I need to go out again to clear the LM fleet again :lol:

causton · 18 Jul 2015

Techniquest said:
Woop,another one I don't need, only two more to discover the IDs of before I inevitably find I need to go out again to clear the LM fleet again

Sorry to ruin your guesswork, but an old gen message from a mailing list:

"first London Midland class 319 is due to arrive at Bletchley on 19th June, 319429. The other three they are getting are 319013; 319216 & 319460. "

Techniquest · 18 Jul 2015

causton said:
Sorry to ruin your guesswork, but an old gen message from a mailing list:

"first London Midland class 319 is due to arrive at Bletchley on 19th June, 319429. The other three they are getting are 319013; 319216 & 319460. "

*Checks memo file of required 319s on phone*

013, dud
216, dud
429, dud
460, dud

Winner winner, Nandos dinner! If those ones are indeed the ones that come to LM (we'll soon see for sure) I've had them all before. I'll still enjoy a run with one, of course, but at least the LM fleet will remain cleared!

swt455 · 18 Jul 2015

I know it's a very specific question, and I feel I already know the answer (unfortunately), but does anyone know if the 22.24 SX Euston - Northampton will transfer to 319 or 350? At present it's a really recommendable run: Euston, Watford, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Leighton Buzzard, Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton and Northampton. No messing around and usually relatively quiet. Love getting a bit of 321 at speed on that presently. But I have a horrible suspicion it will revert to 350 operation once the 321s are gone

any contrasting news would be greatly appreciated!!

childwallblues · 19 Jul 2015

It does seem to be an odd spread from different sub classes rather than a block from one of them.

87015 · 19 Jul 2015

So presumably 013 locked onto the branch, 429/460 for a mainline diagram and (as unsuitable) 216 as spare?

LM take AGA's "crown" in deciding lower capacity is the way to go as passenger numbers go ever upwards into London then... Good luck to the people who attempt to get on at Harrow, a silly green 319 on Thameslink (my bit anyway) usually means people being left behind.

swt_passenger · 19 Jul 2015

childwallblues said:
It does seem to be an odd spread from different sub classes rather than a block from one of them.

Might not be the final four though.

IIRC Northern have had some units for fitter and then driver training etc that won't be long term assets for the TOC.

158722 · 19 Jul 2015

swt_passenger said:
Might not be the final four though.

IIRC Northern have had some units for fitter and then driver training etc that won't be long term assets for the TOC.

Northern have 319366/379 for training, but these are expected to be the last pair of the current/initial batch of 20 to be refreshed at Wolverton. Talking of which, no sign of 319375-378 emerging yet? The former pair been in works since early May, much longer than others. LM 319429 jumping the line?

Silverlinky · 19 Jul 2015

Anyone know who 319003 is for then? 429 took it into Wolverton depot a couple of weeks ago......
I had heard it was 003 for LM not 013

childwallblues · 20 Jul 2015

158722 said:
Northern have 319366/379 for training, but these are expected to be the last pair of the current/initial batch of 20 to be refreshed at Wolverton. Talking of which, no sign of 319375-378 emerging yet? The former pair been in works since early May, much longer than others. LM 319429 jumping the line?

Northern do not need the extra units until the timetable change.

westcoaster · 20 Jul 2015

I had heard 216 is the next LM unit.

pemma · 20 Jul 2015

childwallblues said:
Northern do not need the extra units until the timetable change.

Northern could switch the Lime Street-Warrington Bank Quay services over. However, using 319s on Liverpool-Preston services can't happen until the service is split in the October timetable change.

DarloRich · 20 Jul 2015

Arctic Troll said:
Yet more overcrowding I expect.

I leave for a new job in Newcastle in a fortnight. I won't miss London Midland one little bit.

you will want them back after a few weeks on a Northern pacer ;- ) Oh and Go ahead run most of the bus services in Newcastle

Bletchleyite · 20 Jul 2015

DarloRich said:
you will want them back after a few weeks on a Northern pacer ;- ) Oh and Go ahead run most of the bus services in Newcastle

I was going to say that. LM is a pleasure compared with TPE, certainly. Yes, the Desiros are similar, but LM at least have broadly enough of them, and while a bit irritatingly incompetent at times they don't have the institutional arrogance of TPE nor the cheap-and-nasty approach of Northern.

DarloRich · 20 Jul 2015

Neil Williams said:
I was going to say that. LM is a pleasure compared with TPE, certainly. Yes, the Desiros are similar, but LM at least have broadly enough of them, and while a bit irritatingly incompetent at times they don't have the institutional arrogance of TPE nor the cheap-and-nasty approach of Northern.

I don't find TPE that bad tbh - especially after peaks out of Euston - the trains are modern, fast (ish) comfortable etc just not long enough.

Northern do what they can with the cast offs no one else wants.

Bletchleyite · 20 Jul 2015

DarloRich said:
I don't find TPE that bad tbh - especially after peaks out of Euston

Peaks out of Euston just require strategic choice of train and coach. There are some that are very much underused - the 1751 has one person per bay in the front 4, for instance, whereas if departing from platform 8 or 11 the best approach can be to turn back on yourself on entering the platform and go for the rear 2, as almost nobody else does, particularly off-peak. It can also help to take a slower train than you need to - anything stopping at Harrow and Watford is often near-empty after the latter, particularly if also serving Bushey. The "getting a seat" posters are very useful to give you an idea which to try.

I have a near 100% record of a seat, usually one of my choice (window side extra legroom airline seat, not too bothered if forward/rear facing).

pemma · 21 Jul 2015

A0wen said:
I don't think LM "chose" 4 x 319s to replace 7 x 321s - as I understood it the leasing company told LM the 321s had to be returned ? Presumably the 319s were the only viable option open to LM

I didn't mean LM chose 319s, I meant they only chose to take on 4 of them, opposed to more.

I thought the full story was Scotrail tried to obtain some 321s. The Great Northern ones were off-lease so the ROSCO said "Yes. How many do you want?" However, Govia asked the ROSCO if the Great Northern 321s could stay put if LM released their 321s before the lease expiry date and the ROSCO saw that as a win-win.

A0wen · 21 Jul 2015

jcollins said:
319s are going to have to go on some lines they've never been cleared for, unless you want to scrap them.

I'm not sure why LM's commuters - who already have relatively slow journeys from NMP & MKC should also see a notable deterioration in the quality of stock they have, when compared to what they currently have.

Especially when you compare the units / quality of service which will be on Thameslink in the next year or so and, indeed, the GN route.

The 350s came on stream after all the years of disruption with the WCML upgrade. The 319s would be a massive retrograde step.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

jcollins said:
I didn't mean LM chose 319s, I meant they only chose to take on 4 of them, opposed to more.

I thought the full story was Scotrail tried to obtain some 321s. The Great Northern ones were off-lease so the ROSCO said "Yes. How many do you want?" However, Govia asked the ROSCO if the Great Northern 321s could stay put if LM released their 321s before the lease expiry date and the ROSCO saw that as a win-win.

Were there more available for them to take on though?

My understanding was LM always envisaged having a full 350 fleet - they only kept the 321s because there weren't enough 350s.

user15681 · 22 Jul 2015

Silverlinky said:
Anyone know who 319003 is for then? 429 took it into Wolverton depot a couple of weeks ago......
I had heard it was 003 for LM not 013

westcoaster said:
I had heard 216 is the next LM unit.

It should probably be noted that, along with the two already mentioned, 319013 is also at Wolverton.

319003 arrived 06/07/2015
319216 arrived 15/07/2015
319013 arrived 20/07/2015

Although, one of these looks like it could be heading to Northampton EMUD later (Edit - 319216). Also, my understanding was that 319003 was for GTR and 319013 for LM.

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2015

Temple said:
319216 arrived 15/07/2015

Is that a Brighton Express unit, and if so does anyone know if it is retaining its nice 2+2 seating?

Keith Jarrett · 22 Jul 2015

Neil Williams said:
Is that a Brighton Express unit, and if so does anyone know if it is retaining its nice 2+2 seating?

All the 319/2s retain their nice 2+2 seats. The only area where it is 2+3 is under the pantograph where the old cafe area used to be.

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2015

Keith Jarrett said:
All the 319/2s retain their nice 2+2 seats. The only area where it is 2+3 is under the pantograph where the old cafe area used to be.

Good stuff. I hope that one is out regularly and isn't just seen as the spare!

SpacePhoenix · 23 Jul 2015

What's the closest stock in terms of crew signing/familiarity to 319s of LM's existing stock?

158722 · 23 Jul 2015

A0wen said:
319s / 321s should be confined to the Tring stoppers only.

Looking at the current LM timetable out of Euston, it looks perfectly logical to cover both the Tring and MKC services using 319s (presumably these are currently 350/2s plus a couple of peak extra 321s). Typical journey times of less than 45 mins and around an hour respectively - compatible with the majority of current journeys on Thameslink 319s, I'd have thought.

Off-peak, it looks like 7 diagrams can cover those services, with an extra 3 or 4 diagrams at peak times. 7x 12car formations, 3x 8-car plus a single for the St Albans branch could be covered by a fleet of 30 units, for example.

Out of all these swaps being discussed, I'd say the only justifiable complaint from passengers will be those using the Tring and MKC services, who would see a downgrade from an AC 350 to non-AC 319 on most services, although this could be tempered somewhat with the provision of more 12-car sets vice 8-car.

IanXC · 1 Aug 2015

I have split/merged 3 threads to create:

London Midland/Northern EMU changes speculation for discussion of possible changes, rumours and consequences of these, for the linked matters of LM and NT.
LM 319 cascade progress for specific discussion of actual events pertaining to the introduction of 319s into LM service.

Please ensure both threads remain on topic.

Thanks

PaintYourWagon · 1 Aug 2015

Temple said:
Although, one of these looks like it could be heading to Northampton EMUD later (Edit - 319216). Also, my understanding was that 319003 was for GTR and 319013 for LM.

Photos show 319216 at Northampton, which was also noted on Leighton Logs.

It is still in Southern livery. Transfer was indicated as 22nd July as 5Z20.

gimmea50anyday · 2 Aug 2015

SpacePhoenix said:
What's the closest stock in terms of crew signing/familiarity to 319s of LM's existing stock?

321's. They are essentialy the same apart from 319's are dual voltage and have the egress door on the front

LM 319 cascade progress

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