Trial of of paper receipts for tickets issued on board the train

AndyNLondon · 13 Jun 2016

edwin_m said:
But a RFID tag that always emits the same code when interrogated would be vulnerable to being read by a suitable receiver and cloned (as I believe has happened with RF car keys).

And if anyone thinks that this is implausible or difficult to pull off, the kit to copy standard RFID tags can be bought on ebay for around £10. Anyone using a fixed-response RFID system (as opposed to smart cards which can do cryptographic cleverness, like contactless bank card or Oyster) for an application that needs to be secure is asking for trouble - they're not just vulnerable to being cloned, they're ripe for it.

RailUK Forums

bnm · 13 Jun 2016

Neil Williams said:
Everyone can get a pre-pay contactless card.

Under 13s? I'm struggling to find one for them

Free? I'm struggling to find one that doesn't require payment of a fee.

Solent&Wessex · 21 Jun 2016

No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

HMS Ark Royal · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

How do you decommission one?

hairyhandedfool · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

Typical that no-one has informed ticket office staff at Northern. Can I use these pictures to enlighten our staff please?

Edited because apparently guards got a one line email about a "test".

Paul Kelly · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

They look quite good, I think. Interesting that they are using the BR Rail Alphabet font - maybe that's an anti-forgery feature. But I wonder what the "UTN No." is? And why is it in such large type when the actual ticket number is so tiny and barely noticeable, given there's so much space.

sonic2009 · 21 Jun 2016

I see that was a card payment made via contactless, good to see that times are moving ahead. Are these new machines on online or offline mode? As can imagine some places not having good signal.

BHXDMT · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

How... large.

The gubbins to the right of the QR code seems pointless, and just seems to make the ticket larger than it needs to be!

However, the information on the rest of the ticket and how it's presented looks good. I'm half impressed.

Brucey · 21 Jun 2016

Indigo2 said:
But I wonder what the "UTN No." is? And why is it in such large type when the actual ticket number is so tiny and barely noticeable, given there's so much space.

Reading the barcode, it starts 06 then the UTN then some other characters.

Scanning a print-at-home ticket's barcode, it also starts 06 then has a number which is labelled "Customer Reference" then some other characters.

I think it's just some type of identification number for the ticket.

LowLevel · 21 Jun 2016

HMS Ark Royal said:
How do you decommission one?

I would imagine you wipe the PDAs and chuck the lot in a secure skip, as they're completely wrecked for the most part.

AngusH · 21 Jun 2016

Yes, this looks good. It's much better than the average (local) bus ticket.
Size and layout look good and it seems clear and easy to read.

Much better than I had expected actually.

Brucey · 21 Jun 2016

DMTaylor90 said:
How... large.

The gubbins to the right of the QR code seems pointless, and just seems to make the ticket larger than it needs to be!

However, the information on the rest of the ticket and how it's presented looks good. I'm half impressed.

I would have thought that standard text could have been printed on the back of the ticket stock. Repeated every inch(ish) so it appears in full on every ticket produced.

Wallsendmag · 21 Jun 2016

Brucey said:
Reading the barcode, it starts 06 then the UTN then some other characters.

Scanning a print-at-home ticket's barcode, it also starts 06 then has a number which is labelled "Customer Reference" then some other characters.

I think it's just some type of identification number for the ticket.

Type 6 barcodes ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hairyhandedfool · 21 Jun 2016

Indigo2 said:
.... Interesting that they are using the BR Rail Alphabet font - maybe that's an anti-forgery feature....

If there was a standard font on ticket stock these days that might work, but every machine seems to print differently so I doubt it's anti-forgery.

Indigo2 said:
.... But I wonder what the "UTN No." is? And why is it in such large type when the actual ticket number is so tiny and barely noticeable, given there's so much space.

I'm guessing here, largely because I've not been briefed* on this new style of ticket, but Unique Transaction Number??? I realise that means number appears twice, but it's the best I can think of.

* Unless you count "STAR Mobile is coming soon, more information at some point in the future if you happen to be an Avantix user" as a briefing.

sonic2009 said:
I see that was a card payment made via contactless, good to see that times are moving ahead. Are these new machines on online or offline mode? As can imagine some places not having good signal.

They are supposed to be online, but given that reception in some places is sketchy at best, there may be technical difficulties ahead.

Bletchleyite · 21 Jun 2016

Interesting that they refer to the National Conditions of Travel, which don't exist

They do seem almost ATB sized, which is quite good as it allows for details to be printed more clearly.

krus_aragon · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
No longer a trial, TPE has now started to decommission Avantix, and the first of the StarMobile machines are in use from today, starting with the revenue staff based at Huddersfield. I hope someone has a few rainforests going spare!

I take your point, but I found myself idly wondering how much wood pulp is used in the thicker, card-based tickets compared with these new ones. A short stint of web searching didn't get me anywhere, though.

Solent&Wessex · 21 Jun 2016

hairyhandedfool said:
Typical that no-one has informed ticket office staff at Northern. Can I use these pictures to enlighten our staff please?

Edited because apparently guards got a one line email about a "test".

If it's any consolation, nobody informed the other staff at TPE either, apart from an email saying that Huddersfield was starting to use them and staff should expect to see the new style tickets. The fact that until today nobody had seen the new style tickets, and no staff briefing has been issued to say what they look like and where the relevant information is is irrelevant.

sonic2009 said:
I see that was a card payment made via contactless, good to see that times are moving ahead. Are these new machines on online or offline mode? As can imagine some places not having good signal.

I am told they can do contactless.
I am told they are online whenever possible, and use the EE network, which is generally quite good across the TPE network. If they cannot be online they will still work offline in the same way Avantix does now.

Brucey said:
I would have thought that standard text could have been printed on the back of the ticket stock. Repeated every inch(ish) so it appears in full on every ticket produced.

There is actually very tiny standard text and an endorsements box on the back, which from memory is the same as existing stock, but it is upside down compared with the front! You can just about make it through from the back on the 3rd picture (the ticket which has been punched). This makes the space wasting waffle on the front somewhat pointless.

CyrusWuff · 21 Jun 2016

Neil Williams said:
Interesting that they refer to the National Conditions of Travel, which don't exist

Don't forget the misspelling of Shipley as Shepley. If someone turned up at a gateline with that, I'd fully expect it to be withdrawn as a forgery!

BHXDMT · 21 Jun 2016

CyrusWuff said:
Don't forget the misspelling of Shipley as Shepley. If someone turned up at a gateline with that, I'd fully expect it to be withdrawn as a forgery!

Are you sure about that?

hairyhandedfool · 21 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
If it's any consolation, nobody informed the other staff at TPE either, apart from an email saying that Huddersfield was starting to use them and staff should expect to see the new style tickets. The fact that until today nobody had seen the new style tickets, and no staff briefing has been issued to say what they look like and where the relevant information is is irrelevant....

Apparently the Guards at Northern got the one line email (no pictures or briefings) because they "check tickets". Ticket Offices apparently don't ever check tickets, not even when asked for refunds, compensation, excess fares or information on validity, so got nothing at all (not even a one line email).

sheff1 · 22 Jun 2016

CyrusWuff said:
Don't forget the misspelling of Shipley as Shepley. If someone turned up at a gateline with that, I'd fully expect it to be withdrawn as a forgery!

So, you think anyone travelling from Shepley will be treated as a criminal ? Says a lot for people working on the gatelines.

the sniper · 22 Jun 2016

kwvr45 said:
If it's any consolation, nobody informed the other staff at TPE either, apart from an email saying that Huddersfield was starting to use them and staff should expect to see the new style tickets. The fact that until today nobody had seen the new style tickets, and no staff briefing has been issued to say what they look like and where the relevant information is is irrelevant.

hairyhandedfool said:
Apparently the Guards at Northern got the one line email (no pictures or briefings) because they "check tickets". Ticket Offices apparently don't ever check tickets, not even when asked for refunds, compensation, excess fares or information on validity, so got nothing at all (not even a one line email).

You've got to love this industry's attitude to retail training... P*ss poor as usual. While I'm further south, we haven't been told or shown anything about this new ticket stock by my TOC. :roll:

johntea · 22 Jun 2016

Maybe I'm being thick, but presumably that QR Code thing is how you get through the ticket barriers - if I took a photograph on my phone of it and held my phone up to the reader would that also let me through?

Just curious

MikeWh · 22 Jun 2016

sheff1 said:
So, you think anyone travelling from Shepley will be treated as a criminal ? Says a lot for people working on the gatelines.

No. I'm sure CyrusWuff simply had a mental block and didn't remember the fact that Shepley existed as a separate station. It's not a station I'd ever heard of either and I wondered whether it was a mistake too. Sadly the recent introductions of new tickets has actually included plenty of spelling errors.

JaJaWa · 22 Jun 2016

Neil Williams said:
Yes. The transport operator could even partner with a bank to promote one.

As has previously happened: http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/newsmedia/news-across-the-group/2015/c2c-offers-thousands-of-passengers-contactless-payment-wristbands-for-access-to-cheaper-travel/.

johntea said:
Maybe I'm being thick, but presumably that QR Code thing is how you get through the ticket barriers - if I took a photograph on my phone of it and held my phone up to the reader would that also let me through?

Just curious

Only once and on the correct date though - just as if you printed an eTicket multiple times.

CyrusWuff · 22 Jun 2016

MikeWh said:
No. I'm sure CyrusWuff simply had a mental block and didn't remember the fact that Shepley existed as a separate station. It's not a station I'd ever heard of either and I wondered whether it was a mistake too. Sadly the recent introductions of new tickets has actually included plenty of spelling errors.

^^^ This...Or aren't people allowed to make mistakes nowadays?

island · 22 Jun 2016

LowLevel said:
I would imagine you wipe the PDAs and chuck the lot in a secure skip, as they're completely wrecked for the most part.

Whilst I expect the hardware is past end of life and there will be little to nothing salvageable, this probably contravenes EU waste disposal directives...

edwin_m · 22 Jun 2016

CyrusWuff said:
^^^ This...Or aren't people allowed to make mistakes nowadays?

Like you were (wrongly) accusing someone else of doing?

Greenback · 22 Jun 2016

sheff1 said:
So, you think anyone travelling from Shepley will be treated as a criminal ? Says a lot for people working on the gatelines.

That's pretty harsh. Although I have to say it was a big mistake to assume a ticket is a forgery based solely on this one, apparent, discrepancy

I'm happy to accept that this was just a moment of head fuzz by Cyrus Wuff!

Solent&Wessex · 22 Jun 2016

the sniper said:
You've got to love this industry's attitude to retail training... P*ss poor as usual. While I'm further south, we haven't been told or shown anything about this new ticket stock by my TOC. :roll:

I'm heading down south in a few weeks and was thinking I might buy my tickets from somebody who is using the new machines then see what response I get all over the place.

Trial of of paper receipts for tickets issued on board the train

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