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Class 387 to GN
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Today peak:
2tph Kings Lynn fast 12 car 387
2tph Cambridge stopper 4/8 car 365/387
2tph Royston semi-fast 8 car 365
2018 peak
2tph Kings Lynn fast 12 car 387
2tph Cambridge stopper 8 car 700
2tph Cambridge semi-fast 12 car 700
2tph Baldock semi-fast 8 car 365/387
But the 8-car platform extensions at Waterbeach, Littleport and Watlington (and other associated works for 8-car) will (from Dec 18).
317 forever
Established Member
I know King's Lynn is all 387 land now, and Cambridge will be soon, but I've heard that some of the Ely-terminators are still 365s. Are there many 365 turns to Ely, or are they peak only from now on? Not that I'm trying to avoid the 387s for as long as possible, of course ...
I wonder where the 365s will operate next?
bramling
Veteran Member
I know King's Lynn is all 387 land now, and Cambridge will be soon, but I've heard that some of the Ely-terminators are still 365s. Are there many 365 turns to Ely, or are they peak only from now on? Not that I'm trying to avoid the 387s for as long as possible, of course ...
Apart from Kings Lynn services, everything else is a mix of 387 or 365 at present - what works a particular service is more down to the exigencies of the diagramming than anything else. The only trend I've picked up is that 365s tend to be more prevalent on the Peterborough route. The three morning peak former 317 services are booked 387 of course due to the need for SDO.
D365
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That was always the intention I'm sure.
bramling
Veteran Member
Yes I suspect you're right - it's more logical to concentrate the 365s towards Peterborough simply because there will always be more 387s towards Cambridge because they work the Kings Lynn services.
A couple of updates or observations regarding the GN 387s:
1) It seems GTR are now finally in the process of turning the units to face the same way, although I don't think they're all done yet. It seems the choice is to put the first-class at the country end, which of course is precisely the opposite of the railway's normal practice of putting it at the London end. As has been posted on here at length, it works much better being at the London end for various good reasons.
2) Just come home from holiday to two weeks worth of my local paper on the doormat. A barrage of negative letters from local rail users about the new GN trains (i.e. the 387s), mainly focussing on the reduction in seating availability, but hard and uncomfortable seats get a mention too. The 700s feature too, with a number of letters expressing concern about the similar reduction in seating capacity on the 700s, and also fears that the Thameslink service will lead to unreliability in the future.
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Noticed a 387 today that has lots of blue square '1st class' stickers on all the windows in first class, as well as huge stickers on the internal doors (but not outside!).
Seems GTR is finally making it more obvious to passengers, although it's odd not to say first class on the exterior (yet, hopefully). It's surely as important to tell those who want first class as those who don't.
We can all talk about the yellow strip, but a lot of people don't know this.
Seems GTR is finally making it more obvious to passengers, although it's odd not to say first class on the exterior (yet, hopefully). It's surely as important to tell those who want first class as those who don't.
We can all talk about the yellow strip, but a lot of people don't know this.
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Was working yesterday evening, for the first time (that I've noticed) since I posted here about it however-long-ago-that-was. Branded and requires registration now to 'login', so it looks a done deal.
About time too - the Cambridge/Ely corner of the world has been particularly poorly served by free on-train wifi so far, with just the GA 379s having it, and you can't generally rely on one of those turning up rather than a 317.
I wonder what network(s) it uses. I would hope EE or maybe Vodafone or else speeds might not be great.
I also wonder what equipment they're using. I have a number of devices and the latest 4G modem in the Sony Xperia XZ Premium and some other new devices has a Cat 16 LTE modem. At a recent event at Wembley, download speed peaked at 760Mbps, and upload speeds are now up to 150Mbps (realistically, nearer 90-100).
Obviously sites in the middle of nowhere won't offer speeds like that BUT if the train has a modern LTE router, with sufficient antennas, it should see a decent gain on what a different modem would get. From my experience, if I get 20-30Mbps on an older phone, I may get 40-50Mbps in the exact same location with the newer phone.
In terms of sharing that bandwidth between multiple rail users, every little helps!
I also wonder what equipment they're using. I have a number of devices and the latest 4G modem in the Sony Xperia XZ Premium and some other new devices has a Cat 16 LTE modem. At a recent event at Wembley, download speed peaked at 760Mbps, and upload speeds are now up to 150Mbps (realistically, nearer 90-100).
Obviously sites in the middle of nowhere won't offer speeds like that BUT if the train has a modern LTE router, with sufficient antennas, it should see a decent gain on what a different modem would get. From my experience, if I get 20-30Mbps on an older phone, I may get 40-50Mbps in the exact same location with the newer phone.
In terms of sharing that bandwidth between multiple rail users, every little helps!
I'm on a 387 to Cambridge now and when you sign in, you're given 50MB of data at full speed. Thereafter it says it will reduce the speed.
However, I'm inclined to believe they're quite severely throttling speeds anyway as I did a few tests and never got above 2Mbps. As the system should apparently use multiple 4G connections, that seems very low - especially given I doubt many people are using it (see below).
It is of course better than nothing, but I wouldn't expect to be able to do any video streaming (I'll see soon what speed I get once I exceed the 50MB).
[In the same location as my GN Wi-Fi speed test, I was getting 4.1Mbps on Vodafone 4G and 24.3Mbps on EE - somewhere just near Baldock]
Also, it seems not every single 387 has had Wi-Fi enabled yet. Plus there are no stickers anywhere on any train I've seen yet to say there's Wi-Fi enabled. I hope they don't take as long to appear as first class stickers did!
(Picture showing logged in screen from Icomera)
EDIT: After exceeding the allowance, it seems speeds are capped to just under 1Mbps, so not a massive difference. Still perfectly usable for a lot of things, but you'll definitely want your own mobile data connection for streaming services!
However, I'm inclined to believe they're quite severely throttling speeds anyway as I did a few tests and never got above 2Mbps. As the system should apparently use multiple 4G connections, that seems very low - especially given I doubt many people are using it (see below).
It is of course better than nothing, but I wouldn't expect to be able to do any video streaming (I'll see soon what speed I get once I exceed the 50MB).
[In the same location as my GN Wi-Fi speed test, I was getting 4.1Mbps on Vodafone 4G and 24.3Mbps on EE - somewhere just near Baldock]
Also, it seems not every single 387 has had Wi-Fi enabled yet. Plus there are no stickers anywhere on any train I've seen yet to say there's Wi-Fi enabled. I hope they don't take as long to appear as first class stickers did!
(Picture showing logged in screen from Icomera)
EDIT: After exceeding the allowance, it seems speeds are capped to just under 1Mbps, so not a massive difference. Still perfectly usable for a lot of things, but you'll definitely want your own mobile data connection for streaming services!
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Yes, I wonder if they could have used the various text fields to be a bit more creative!!
I have to day the connection was solid my whole journey from KGX to CBG. Sure, Icomera has been in the game a long time, but still good to see on a commuter service.
Question is how it will cope when everyone starts to use it.
But if they're capping at 2Mbps then it shouldn't be too bad.
Interesting that the photo of the people showing that you're connected is taken from the 1st class compartment of a 365. They could've used the 1st class area of a 387 and shown off the ironing boards...
On a weekend trip to Ely from Hatfield (via King's Cross), I must say that the Wi-Fi service was excellent and my son was able to watch YouTube Kids (I know, bad parenting!!) all the way* without interruption.
Even the drop in speed after what must have been quite a short time (50MB on YouTube wouldn't last long) it seemed he was able to get a pretty good quality video stream throughout.
* He wasn't actually watching all the time, but whenever he was, it worked fine.
Even the drop in speed after what must have been quite a short time (50MB on YouTube wouldn't last long) it seemed he was able to get a pretty good quality video stream throughout.
* He wasn't actually watching all the time, but whenever he was, it worked fine.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Following on from an earlier post it does appear the 387s first class is now at the country end. (Which is unfortunate as the rear coach heading to London was the best chance of getting a seat)
Any idea why as hadders states opposite to how most operators work.
I did think is it so the disabled area always in the same coach?
On a 387 this is currently in coach 2 (counting from the kx barrier) and furthest away from 1st class. Don't disabled toilet users travel in 1st? Could be wrong but isn't it coach 3 of a 365 counting from the buffers at kx?
Suspect probably nothing to do with passenger comfort / convenience but more cost. Most of them had 1st class at the country end. Less to turn. Such a cynic.
Any idea why as hadders states opposite to how most operators work.
I did think is it so the disabled area always in the same coach?
On a 387 this is currently in coach 2 (counting from the kx barrier) and furthest away from 1st class. Don't disabled toilet users travel in 1st? Could be wrong but isn't it coach 3 of a 365 counting from the buffers at kx?
Suspect probably nothing to do with passenger comfort / convenience but more cost. Most of them had 1st class at the country end. Less to turn. Such a cynic.
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I think they need to change the giant sticker on the internal doors to first class. Heard quite a few people who think they're in first class when they're looking at the door TO first class.
Given the seats are essentially the same, it's probably a fair mistake to make.
Given the seats are essentially the same, it's probably a fair mistake to make.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Not only that but it catches infrequent users because of the wierd position. They walk past coach 3, see that coach 4 is first and stop walking not realising that the front part of the coach is just also standard. Good for us commuters.
Someone getting on a WGC earlier in the week thought your were entitled to sit in first when the train was overcrowded. I did tell them that an inspector may disagree, but considering the level of overcrowding they are very unlikely to see one.
Certainly it drops out less than that on the 379 GAs. In general I'm pretty pleased with it.
Rather annoying that the websites of all the major cinema chains (and IMDb, BBFC etc) are blocked, however. Makes it tough to plan a trip to the cinema while on the train, as I was just trying to do. Don't see there is much justification for that if they're allowing YouTube...
samuelmorris
Established Member
I never saw much consistency in the way that the content filters work on onboard WiFi, so I typically tend not to use it - case in point GWR WiFi blocked railmiles but allowed realtimetrains, blocked Gmail and Slack, yet allowed Discord which is fundamentally the same tool except aimed at gamers rather than businesses.
Weird. I wonder if you can email to ask for sites to be looked at?
Otherwise it's VPN time, unless they block/throttle those? (Of course there are ways to circumvent that, but a bit of a hassle).
I should point out that my son was watching YouTube Kids. I doubt it makes any difference, but thought I'd mention it. You never know, the delivery might be slightly different and they simply haven't realised! I shall try normal YouTube next time I travel.
bramling
Veteran Member
First class is at the country end ?? So no standardisation then
Never really established why GTR have chosen to have it like this. It makes no sense from a passenger point of view, and I can't think of any reason why having the trains round this way could have any maintenance implications (although having all trains facing a particular way might).
It's silly having the isolated section of standard class at the country end of the train, although as others have pointed out it's good if you're 'in the know'.
Of course, as has been posted here many times, having the first at the extreme ends of the unit makes much more sense -- and I'd place a small bet that somewhere along the line this is where it again ends up on these trains, just like it was worth a bet that the Undesiro Sh***ies would gain tables sooner or later.
Agent_Squash
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And besides, it’s not like fitting an anti massacar is that hard...
bramling
Veteran Member
Th seating moquette is slight different too - although this extends to some seats in the invisible standard class section too.
I have a little theory that the reason for first being like this is because the first of the recent Electostar builds were the 5-car Southern ones. These have first class, although most of their workings are standard only. On these the first class is at the driving end of the vehicle, with the sliding door in the same place. This gives approximately 4 and a half windows worth of first class, which is probably about right for a 5-car train. Fast forward a couple of years and we now have 4-car versions. Keep the first class at the driving end of the sliding door and you now have excessive provision of first for a 4-car train, especially one who already has a heavily reduced quantity of seating compared to the trains they replaced on GN. So rather than move the sliding door to the ends and have to fit another one at the other end, someone had the clever idea of swapping the first round to the inner end of the sliding door. Then someone thought that as first is now in a part of the train where lots of people would be walking through at King 's Cross, with annoying door open/close beeps going off every couple of seconds as this is where many people choose to board, it would be better to put it at the county end to reduce the number of complaints about that. I wonder how close my guess is?! It's a mess and a bodge if so - first should be at the ends.
Agent_Squash
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Indeed - FC is much better on the ends than it is crammed in the middle. At least it's not the TPE ballroom on the 185s...
Surprisingly accurate
This is also why some of the "First" seats are in the standard section, as there's too many to fit in the smaller section at the inner end of the carriage.. You'd hope the door could eventually be moved and this mess sorted, but I won't hold my breath.
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