swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,443
I don't believe any 365s have 'gone' yet. The original cascade (to GWR) was completely cancelled quite a while ago, everything since has been rumour or suggestions.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Class 387 to GN
- Thread starter crazystripe
- Start date
- Status
I don't believe any 365s have 'gone' yet. The original cascade (to GWR) was completely cancelled quite a while ago, everything since has been rumour or suggestions.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 11,470
No idea about commuter habits at present. But as has been said countless times before, none of the 365s have been removed yet. What the introduction of the Class 387s has done is to replace the Class 317/321 fleet, to which they are far superior in comfort.
I prefer the 365s. I don't change my routine but my heart sinks when a 387 turns up. The key thing is that the interior layout of the 365 is far superior to the 387s,ie more seats (even though both are 2+2), tables that don't hinder boarding and alighting on busy services with frequent stops, better 1st class and appropriately and consistently located.
A 387 with the interior layout of a 365 would be a good train.
Indeed. All the 387s have done is replace the 321/317s. The 387s should be far superior but they're not. The 321/317 seats were poor for being 3+2 and too low down, the 387s are too upright and hard.
Failed Unit
Established Member
They have just swapped some diagrams around.
People have mixed views of the 387s. To save running through this thread and I understand this applies to Cambridge service as well.
People like.
Tables, power sockets and air-conditioning.
People don't like.
Denied boarding in the peak because of the reduction in seats.
The location and unpredictable first class. (If you can call it that.)
If you travel off peak then you will probably like them. If you travel in the peak or at weekends towards the London end of the route and you get left on the platform. You will dislike them.
People have mixed views of the 387s. To save running through this thread and I understand this applies to Cambridge service as well.
People like.
Tables, power sockets and air-conditioning.
People don't like.
Denied boarding in the peak because of the reduction in seats.
The location and unpredictable first class. (If you can call it that.)
If you travel off peak then you will probably like them. If you travel in the peak or at weekends towards the London end of the route and you get left on the platform. You will dislike them.
Last edited:
The introduction of 387s coinciding with hot weather means that the air conditioning has been very well recieved, but the rock hard seats have not.
People also seem to be taking advantage of being able to walk through the entire length of a 387 formation, unlike on the 365s.
A couple of other down sides have been attaching units at Cambridge (which has regularly been taking longer than the planned 6 minutes), and consistent problems with releasing the doors upon arrival at King's Cross.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent between the two classes. I prefer the much larger tables on all seats on a 387 - much easier to work on a laptop on (unlike being bounced around on a 365), plus the plug sockets.
People also seem to be taking advantage of being able to walk through the entire length of a 387 formation, unlike on the 365s.
A couple of other down sides have been attaching units at Cambridge (which has regularly been taking longer than the planned 6 minutes), and consistent problems with releasing the doors upon arrival at King's Cross.
Personally, I'm fairly indifferent between the two classes. I prefer the much larger tables on all seats on a 387 - much easier to work on a laptop on (unlike being bounced around on a 365), plus the plug sockets.
How could you forgot the rock hard ironing board seats? Even in 1st Class!
Also the ride quality is poor. I went to King's Lynn today and travelled on a couple of 387s and between Ely and King's Lynn it was really bad.
Another thing - the fact that there is no longer a first class section located immediately next to the buffer stops at King's Cross I'm sure has put a few noses out of joint as people can no longer have a guarantee of being first off. I can see some people trading down once season ticket renewals cone around...
Failed Unit
Established Member
The corridor connections are a big plus. I know the 317s had them but they were not used in my experience. (Which is not saying GTR never used them)
First class interesting. See if people do stop buying first tickets now. On great northern you bought first class for 3 reasons.
1. Better seat - even on the 317s. That reason is gone if your trains are only operated by 387s.
2. Close to buffers at kings cross. - unpredictable now.
3. Better chance of getting a seat. That is more valid now but if you live in Cambridge would you bother considering you have lost 1&2. (Not knowing how many trains leave Cambridge now the reduced seating of a 387 I don't know).
I tend not to bother looking for 1st on a 387 when I have an AP just take the first seat.
I don't mind them. Just like to be able to get on the train I select. My heart sinks at the weekend when a 387 shows up. Will I need to use the stopper? At least when the 700s take over the days of getting left behind at the weekends are gone. Be interesting to see how well received a further reduction in seats is taken however.
First class interesting. See if people do stop buying first tickets now. On great northern you bought first class for 3 reasons.
1. Better seat - even on the 317s. That reason is gone if your trains are only operated by 387s.
2. Close to buffers at kings cross. - unpredictable now.
3. Better chance of getting a seat. That is more valid now but if you live in Cambridge would you bother considering you have lost 1&2. (Not knowing how many trains leave Cambridge now the reduced seating of a 387 I don't know).
I tend not to bother looking for 1st on a 387 when I have an AP just take the first seat.
I don't mind them. Just like to be able to get on the train I select. My heart sinks at the weekend when a 387 shows up. Will I need to use the stopper? At least when the 700s take over the days of getting left behind at the weekends are gone. Be interesting to see how well received a further reduction in seats is taken however.
Kite159
Veteran Member
I bet some of the "Customer Hosts/Revenue Protection" members of staff prefer the corridor connections as it allows them to be able to do a full ticket check.
I commute on the stopping train between Cambridge and Meldreth. Over the last three years my usual trains have gone from 321/317 to 365 to 387 and back to 365. Given the number of cyclists on the train, the smaller door vestibules on the 387s were not popular. 365s are fine, but I think we'll actually be pleased to see the 700s with their wide doors, big vestibules and dedicated bike areas, given the number of bikes!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Failed Unit
Established Member
It is. Wonder how it works south of potters bar. Guess I will run into one with wifi fitted before too long to find out.
Kite159
Veteran Member
387121 at least had working Wi-Fi on the 29th May. It looked like 387120 had it fitted but it wasn't working (wouldn't get past the "getting IP Address" stage when connecting)
D365
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 11,470
Wasn't there an aim to have all rolling stock fitted with wi-fi by 2020?
I was on 387127 when I posted earlier.
Worked similar to that on the GA 379s - generally ok but with occasional long/very long gaps when loading pages. Still seems to be not quite finished though - network had a sensible name but a generic login screen.
By rights, the SSID should be blank - as they've not managed to get the trains to show Great Northern on the CIS yet!!
Would be good, and the time to do the 365s would presumably have been at the same time as upgrading other equipment. Surely the 365s are to get CCTV at some point too? They were always the only GN trains without it (even the 313s having it early on) and I don't think even with the new CIS, cameras have been added yet.
Last edited:
No wifi on either of the 387s I was on today, though, so either not yet fitted to all units or it isn't turned on everywhere yet.
However they do seem to have worked out now how to split/attach at Cambridge in the allocated 5 minutes, which is quite an improvement.
However they do seem to have worked out now how to split/attach at Cambridge in the allocated 5 minutes, which is quite an improvement.
...unfortunately, over 2 weeks later and many 387s travelled upon, and no wifi to be found on any of them 
I guess they were trialling something quietly, and it isn't quite ready yet. So, back to the dark ages for a little longer...
I guess they were trialling something quietly, and it isn't quite ready yet. So, back to the dark ages for a little longer...
...unfortunately, over 2 weeks later and many 387s travelled upon, and no wifi to be found on any of them
I guess they were trialling something quietly, and it isn't quite ready yet. So, back to the dark ages for a little longer...
It's been quite windy recently, so maybe the Wi-Fi signals blew away.
I'll try and scan for Wi-Fi on any I travel on to see if I can find anything. Maybe when it was mentioned on here they opted to switch to a hidden SSID for testing. I'll see if I can find out.
class387
Established Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 1,525
I've definitely had an O2 Wifi signal on one that I've had in the past week, but I can't remember which.It's been quite windy recently, so maybe the Wi-Fi signals blew away.
I'll try and scan for Wi-Fi on any I travel on to see if I can find anything. Maybe when it was mentioned on here they opted to switch to a hidden SSID for testing. I'll see if I can find out.
O2 Wi-Fi is going up at most stations, not on the trains. On the train it will likely be called something else and won't be provided by O2. I think some trains use multiple connections on multiple operators, the best being EE as it has the coverage AND capacity to provide good speeds on the move.
O2 has limited spectrum and would, frankly, be worst. Perhaps along with Three that is also starting to suffer from congestion and a lack of 4G enabled sites.
class387
Established Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 1,525
I don't think it was in a station - I got it between Potters Bar and Brookmans Park
I would be surprised if it was O2 having anything to do with train equipment. Of course, GTR could call the SSIDs anything it liked and may wish to do so to allow people to connect once they've 'saved' it - even though the authentication process might be totally different.
God help us if they are using O2's mobile network though. Only EE or Vodafone has the coverage AND capacity to provide decent speeds for trains (and ideally, a TOC would use multiple connections spread over different networks and aggregate them).
Last edited:
Fuzzytop
Member
- Joined
- 4 Jan 2017
- Messages
- 294
I know King's Lynn is all 387 land now, and Cambridge will be soon, but I've heard that some of the Ely-terminators are still 365s. Are there many 365 turns to Ely, or are they peak only from now on? Not that I'm trying to avoid the 387s for as long as possible, of course ... 
I know King's Lynn is all 387 land now, and Cambridge will be soon, but I've heard that some of the Ely-terminators are still 365s. Are there many 365 turns to Ely, or are they peak only from now on? Not that I'm trying to avoid the 387s for as long as possible, of course ...
Anecdotally from casual observations, 365s (which I now term "heritage traction") are the rule rather than the exception on the Ely terminators, peak and off-peak.
An analysis on how the seat reduction on the 387s affects the capacity on the Cambridge route: http://abooker.changeip.net/great_northern_seats.html
At off peak times that is true but I don't think there are any additional services in the peaks (I admit I haven't checked this fully for Cambridge but I have done a detailed analysis for Stevenage).
Cambridge Express services will be 387s so there will be fewer seats. The semi fasts from Cambridge will be 700s.
If it's an 8-car 700 instead of an 8-car 365 there will be fewer seats
If it's a 12-car 700 instead of a 12-car 365 there will be fewer seats
If it's an 8-car 700 instead of a 4 car 365 there will be more seats (there aren't any 4 car trains in the peaks although there are off peak)
In theory there could be 12-car 700 trains replacing 8-car 365s but I don't think this will be the case. The majority of the 700s are 8-car and I believe the 12-car ones will mostly work on the Bedford services and to Peterborough.
Cambridge Express services will be 387s so there will be fewer seats. The semi fasts from Cambridge will be 700s.
If it's an 8-car 700 instead of an 8-car 365 there will be fewer seats
If it's a 12-car 700 instead of a 12-car 365 there will be fewer seats
If it's an 8-car 700 instead of a 4 car 365 there will be more seats (there aren't any 4 car trains in the peaks although there are off peak)
In theory there could be 12-car 700 trains replacing 8-car 365s but I don't think this will be the case. The majority of the 700s are 8-car and I believe the 12-car ones will mostly work on the Bedford services and to Peterborough.
- Status