15X and 16X multiple working

[penguin8967]

It does happen sometimes on ECS moves, but never in passenger service.

 

[43096]

View attachment 122515
It does happen sometimes on ECS moves, but never in passenger service.

That may of course be an allocation error where two sets are allocated the same working (or, rather, one is not de-allocated). We need photographic evidence to be sure.

 

[158747]

View attachment 122515
It does happen sometimes on ECS moves, but never in passenger service.

Looks like possibly some incorrect information must have been entered into the system as in reality it is impossible for a 150 / 166 combination to work together in multiple.

 

[penguin8967]

Looks like possibly some incorrect information must have been entered into the system as in reality it is impossible for a 150 / 166 combination to work together in multiple.

Aren't they able to couple mechanically but not electrically?

 

[JonathanH]

Aren't they able to couple mechanically but not electrically?

Doesn't help with ECS moves though. A mechanical coupling is for recovery.

 

[JN114]

Aren't they able to couple mechanically but not electrically?

For emergency/recovery purposes only - 5mph max, unbraked.

Not a safe/acceptable method of operating even for a relatively short shunt move onto Exeter TMD

5T04 is scheduled to be 2x 166 - presumably on the 19th one was unavailable/displaced and substituted by 2x 150. While the diagrams (and therefore the allocations fed into RTT) show them coming off together, they would have been brought off separately by local arrangement

 

[321over360]

It is also worth mentioning that the 150/158 and 165/166 have different Guard operation methods which makes it impossible to run them coupled in passenger service even if the coupling wiring issues are solved. On the 150/158 it is the Guard who releases the doors. On the 165/166 it is the Driver who releases the doors. So they would have to standardise their Guard door control methods and have the Guard release doors on all of these classes to enable them to run coupled in passenger service.

If the 165/166 setup is anything like a 465/466 setup then there is a key slot a guard can use for them to be able to release the doors using the controls within the cab, as the key used to open the cab door leading to the passenger compartment on 465s can be used to control the doors on the train like a driver would if their key was in

 

[penguin8967]

5T04 is scheduled to be 2x 166 - presumably on the 19th one was unavailable/displaced and substituted by 2x 150. While the diagrams (and therefore the allocations fed into RTT) show them coming off together, they would have been brought off separately by local arrangement

That makes much more sense then - thanks for clarifying.

 

[LowLevel]

If the 165/166 setup is anything like a 465/466 setup then there is a key slot a guard can use for them to be able to release the doors using the controls within the cab, as the key used to open the cab door leading to the passenger compartment on 465s can be used to control the doors on the train like a driver would if their key was in

It isn't. Class 465 and 466 have been dual driver and guard door operation since their introduction.

Class 165 and 166 until they were modified had entirely driver controlled doors, with the guard relaying their directions through the signal bell/buzzer. The guard didn't open or close doors themselves until the recent changes.

 

[CR165022]

Just spotted this, a 158 in the middle of 2 165s, not sure if it's an error with realtime trains though

Realtime Trains | 5D98 2340 Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 10/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5D98 2340 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 10/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[busestrains]

Just spotted this, a 158 in the middle of 2 165s, not sure if it's an error with realtime trains though

Realtime Trains | 5D98 2340 Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 10/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 5D98 2340 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 10/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I think it has been mentioned that 150/158 coupled with 165/166 does happen on ECS moves. It is just not allowed in passenger service. So that formation is probably correct as it is an ECS working.

 

[JN114]

I think it has been mentioned that 150/158 coupled with 165/166 does happen on ECS moves. It is just not allowed in passenger service. So that formation is probably correct as it is an ECS working.

Per post 36, It does not happen.