Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[trebor79]

How long is the platform at Stansted. Could 4 3 car 755s do a Stansted diagram to release a 745 for Norwich?

 

[Adrian1980uk]

How long is the platform at Stansted. Could 4 3 car 755s do a Stansted diagram to release a 745 for Norwich?

Not sure what you would gain though? 755s are probably better on the GEML as they have tables

 

[Bald Rick]

Why the Franchise Agreement ever specified this is a mystery, and now lost in the mists of time. Clearly there was a significant element of wishful thinking/optimism bias in the bid team.

The ‘wishful‘ thinking was in DfT. Although the cynic in me suggests they knew exactly what they were doing.

They must have seen the proposed timetables. Did no one at NR say this is undeliverable?

I’m sure someone has a letter on file somewhere

We'll have to see how the timetable recast turns out (if one ever happens)

There’s a good chance it will…

 

[Peter Sarf]

How though? Without Covid those surplus 720s wouldn’t exist (and an excuse to shortform and leave people behind on WA wouldn’t be there) and 745/755 availability would still be unable to meet the diagram requirements. The recast wasn’t delayed by Covid, it simply was never viable unless you delete stoppers and freight from Stratford to Ipswich as put above…

As I said with Covid19 there is a surplus of 755s and 720s.

 

[dk1]

1P58 19:02 Liverpool St - Norwich tonight (329/410/401) full to capacity before departure. Many passengers left behind to travel on the following 19:30. Still standing after Colchester.

 

[JonathanH]

1P58 19:02 Liverpool St - Norwich tonight (329/410/401) full to capacity before departure. Many passengers left behind to travel on the following 19:30. Still standing after Colchester.

There appears to be some disconnect between a service being the first service on which off-peak tickets are valid from Liverpool Street and having a train with reduced capacity running it.

Is there a better out and back diagram from Norwich the 755s could go out on?

 

[Horizon22]

Yes that’s correct. Often easier to keep them to diagram on Sundays. Announcements on stations now state ‘this service is not booked to have first class’ or something similar too. Be prepared to stand your cuppa on the ledge near your feet or better still sit in an airline seat. There are flip down tables on seat backs.

Heard an announcement like this the other day followed by “First Class in in Coaches A&B”!

 

[dk1]

There appears to be some disconnect between a service being the first service on which off-peak tickets are valid from Liverpool Street and having a train with reduced capacity running it.

Is there a better out and back diagram from Norwich the 755s could go out on?

We were talking about that in the messroom. All though everyone agreed we are not train planning & I know most things are done for a reason.

 

[chubs]

1P58 19:02 Liverpool St - Norwich tonight (329/410/401) full to capacity before departure. Many passengers left behind to travel on the following 19:30. Still standing after Colchester.

Does a 745 have more seats and standing capacity than 3x 755?

It's a real shame they cant just order 10 more 745's, 5 of each spec. Would sort everything out and future proof Anglia.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

1P58 19:02 Liverpool St - Norwich tonight (329/410/401) full to capacity before departure. Many passengers left behind to travel on the following 19:30. Still standing after Colchester.

We do seem to have reached the point now where we are struggling with capacity on the GEML again, I've been commuting 1 day a week into London (I have more than one office to attend in a week) and I would say the peaks I've used are what I would call comfortably full, a few seats available but most coaches full.

The big question is, will the DFT allow GA to add the missing services and can they with the current 745 / 755 fleet!

December timetable will be interesting although obviously over the summer with holidays the peak journeys will be artificially low and leasure high

 

[Wivenswold]

I think I can safely say there will be no new units coming to GA in the next couple of decades. Funding for rail is being squeezed by the Treasury, hence the plan to shut booking offices.

The one area of wriggle room that GA has is to take some of the 745/1s off the Stansted diagrams so they have enough 12 car sets and spares for the Norwich - London diagrams and put a mix of 720s and 745s on the airport in the evenings and run some of the 745/1s back to Norwich in service (which was the original vision set out by the long-disappeared Abellio bid team).

 

[dk1]

Does a 745 have more seats and standing capacity than 3x 755?

It's a real shame they cant just order 10 more 745's, 5 of each spec. Would sort everything out and future proof Anglia.

Yes more capacity on 745s. The triple traction loses around 140 seats.

 

[Mikey C]

Lugging around 3 power packs entirely under the wires seem a waste too. Especially when such 100mph Bimode trains would be really useful elsewhere in the country if they're not needed on Anglia services.

With all the spare 379s and soon some 350s, surely there must be a way of using existing stock to displace the 745s from the Stansted runs?

 

[D6975]

Does a 745 have more seats and standing capacity than 3x 755?

It's a real shame they cant just order 10 more 745's, 5 of each spec. Would sort everything out and future proof Anglia.

An 11 car 755 lash up has 548 seats plus 77 tip ups, total 625.

A 745/0 has 624S, 80F, total 704.

A 745/1 has 722S.

 

[Bald Rick]

December timetable will be interesting

It’s already written. And is much the same

 

[Class15]

Lugging around 3 power packs entirely under the wires seem a waste too. Especially when such 100mph Bimode trains would be really useful elsewhere in the country if they're not needed on Anglia services.

With all the spare 379s and soon some 350s, surely there must be a way of using existing stock to displace the 745s from the Stansted runs?

The obvious solution is to run surplus 720s on the stansted express.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Lugging around 3 power packs entirely under the wires seem a waste too. Especially when such 100mph Bimode trains would be really useful elsewhere in the country if they're not needed on Anglia services.

With all the spare 379s and soon some 350s, surely there must be a way of using existing stock to displace the 745s from the Stansted runs?

There is no ideal answer here, bit like moving seats on the Titanic - displacing Stansted Express units would mean no tables, first class or buffet on IC, if it gets very unpredictable then it becomes a regional train. 755s give tables but trolley service is a challenge along with capacity and no first class.

Answer long term is to refit the spare 720s to Stansted Express spec and refit maybe 5 745s to IC spec but easy to say, DFT will not let the money be spent.

The recast of timetable if ever happens my improve matters and very long term, if there were the Ely area improvements then in all likelihood there will be less 755s available as extra will be used Ipswich Cambridge or Norwich Cambridge. Also I still wonder if Norwich to Yarmouth will get the improved frequency as use continues to recover (not sure what the loadings are like as I only ever see 1 service a week and it's always the same one)

 

[dk1]

Lugging around 3 power packs entirely under the wires seem a waste too. Especially when such 100mph Bimode trains would be really useful elsewhere in the country if they're not needed on Anglia services.

With all the spare 379s and soon some 350s, surely there must be a way of using existing stock to displace the 745s from the Stansted runs?

With surplus 720s you're never going to see 350s, 379s or anything else on GA.

There are not that many 755s spare and even if there were, alterations to other depots to maintain a small fleet would be prohibitive. Remember Crown Point has had well in excess of £40m invested to convert it for this type of train.

 

[Energy]

With surplus 720s you're never going to see 350s, 379s or anything else on GA.

There are not that many 755s spare and even if there were, alterations to other depots to maintain a small fleet would be prohibitive. Remember Crown Point has had well in excess of £40m invested to convert it for this type of train.

Better place for any spare 755s would be on the Norwich portion of a split Liverpool to Norwich.

 

[dk1]

Better place for any spare 755s would be on the Norwich portion of a split Liverpool to Norwich.

Yes that’s been mooted a few times. Would require at least six units at any one time.

 

[Energy]

Yes that’s been mooted a few times. Would require at least six units at any one time.

720s on StanEx, 755s there instead?

 

[dk1]

720s on StanEx, 755s there instead?

20 720s modified for Airport duties would be perfect. Just need to convince the misers at the DfT to get the ball rolling. Keep the Stadlers on the routes of their home depot & make almost everything compatible on the West.

 

[Topological]

Yes that’s been mooted a few times. Would require at least six units at any one time.

It is almost like it makes too much sense.

Reduces the variety of traction between Norwich and Ely, frees up stock for EMT, reduces the number of conflicts imported into the Castlefield Corridor and vice versa, allows use of wires between Peterborough and Grantham, and probably a few more benefits as well.

A little speculative, but would be nice to see.

 

[dk1]

It is almost like it makes too much sense.

Reduces the variety of traction between Norwich and Ely, frees up stock for EMT, reduces the number of conflicts imported into the Castlefield Corridor and vice versa, allows use of wires between Peterborough and Grantham, and probably a few more benefits as well.

A little speculative, but would be nice to see.

It’s my second choice if I’m honest. First is always continue with a through service to the North West but that’s been done to death on here and not really for this thread.

 

[Railperf]

GEML and WAML crying out for a more efficient timetable.
Ideally the 755 consists on the GEML need to be minimum 11 coaches and definitely more than a pair of 755/4's. But it seems not even that is achieveable - in spite of there seemingly being quite a few units spare.

 

[dk1]

GEML and WAML crying out for a more efficient timetable.
Ideally the 755 consists on the GEML need to be minimum 11 coaches and definitely more than a pair of 755/4's. But it seems not even that is achieveable - in spite of there seemingly being quite a few units spare.

They try to ensure triple traction on both diagrams on the busiest days of the week. The 06:28/19:02 are always three units.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

They try to ensure triple traction on both diagrams on the busiest days of the week. The 06:28/19:02 are always three units.

That's the point though, there's not that much spare traction with GA, only the soon to be delivered 720s. GA has recovered well from the pandemic compaired with others and therefore requires most of the trains to run its timetable.

 

[dk1]

That's the point though, there's not that much spare traction with GA, only the soon to be delivered 720s. GA has recovered well from the pandemic compaired with others and therefore requires most of the trains to run its timetable.

It’s a busy little operation again helped by the excellent reliability & new fleet. I live on one of the regional routes which has been transformed & is unrecognisable from 4-5 years ago.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

It’s a busy little operation again helped by the excellent reliability & new fleet. I live on one of the regional routes which has been transformed & is unrecognisable from 4-5 years ago.

GA are always near the top for on time arrivals. Are the regionals getting full now given the big uplift in seats available

 

[dk1]

GA are always near the top for on time arrivals. Are the regionals getting full now given the big uplift in seats available

Absolutely. The Norwich to Sheringham, Cambridge & East Suffolk routes excel. I cannot speak for Ipswich/Cambridge but from what I witness it’s very buoyant.