Aslef announce strike dates

[Ashfordian6]

The RMT agreement includes assurances from the union that it will talk in good faith to employers about T&C changes, ie that it was not simply agreeing a pay increase without any intention of talking in good faith about T&C changes. RDG would not have made the RMT agreement without those assurances.

ASLEF may wish to negotiate at a local level but it has so far not given the RDG any assurances similar to those provided by the RMT. It would need to provide those assurances if it wishes the RDG to offer the union an agreement similar to that agreed by RMT.

How can ASLEF give any assurances like you are implying when there have been no meetings between the parties since April(?) last year?

 

[SeanG]

Looks like in the December strikes the overtime ban didn't affect what I guess might be your train (06:12 from Durham). It seems to have ran every day except that of the full strike.

Search - Recent Train Times

Thanks very much for that web link - I didn't know about that website - hopefully that will put my wife's mind at rest

 

[winks]

ASLEF have to keep going with this (and they will) because there’s been no negotiating for 12 months which is petty and ridiculous on the government's part. Just aswell drivers pay is set where it is and staff can afford to keep striking. It will inconvenience me as a regular traveller but I do support their claim to a payrise - imagine any other workforce Nurses, firefighters not being given a pay rise for almost 5 years ! There would be uproar.

 

[Starmill]

Anyone expecting Labour to spend money on resolving the dispute is likely to be very disappointed.

So your claim is that a majority Labour government would hold a prolonged industrial relations dispute between workers in state corporations (and potentially some overhanging Government-contracted private companies) and a Labour-affiliated trade union?

Are you having a laugh?

 

[Horseman]

ASLEF have to keep going with this (and they will) because there’s been no negotiating for 12 months which is petty and ridiculous on the government's part. Just aswell drivers pay is set where it is and staff can afford to keep striking. It will inconvenience me as a regular traveller but I do support their claim to a payrise - imagine any other workforce Nurses, firefighters not being given a pay rise for almost 5 years ! There would be uproar.

A very valid point. Certainly in my area up north most regular travellers are supportive, despite being inconvenienced.

 

[footprints]

A very valid point. Certainly in my area up north most regular travellers are supportive, despite being inconvenienced.

How many regular travellers have you interviewed to make such a claim?

 

[800001]

I'm due to travel from the northeast to King Cross early morning (0612) on 5th February - an LNER overtime ban day. Does anyone know what the level of service for LNER has been previously on an overtime ban day?

LNER have had an overtime ban for roughly 18 months.
They have adhoc cancellations each day. Some maybe 1-2 cancelled, other days upwards of 15. It all depends on which driver diagram is uncovered that day.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Guardian is suggesting that minimum service levels will NOT be implemented.

That‘s the Guardian guessing.

The last few periods of overtime ban have seen one train an hour timetabled between Ely and Cambridge/London, rather than two. And three trains an hour between Cambridge and London, rather than 6. That's 50%. And in the end even less than that runs in practice. I'm sure some lines get better than 50% and I know some (Redhill) get worse, but on average 50% feels about right.

GTRs service level during the overtime ban on weekdays is well over 70% of normal. I can’t post the source, butit is open on my screen right now.

I know that for some GTR routes it is reduced signifciantly (including mine), but for many it is not, or only marginally.

Weekends and on the day cancellations should be better this time round as driver avaialbility is much better in January/February than November / December (as always).

 

[Horseman]

How many regular travellers have you interviewed to make such a claim?

Working in a customer facing role on the railway, you'd be surprised how often it comes up, and what much of the travelling public really think. Obviously they're unhappy at being inconvenienced but most of the disdain I have encountered has been directed towards the government rather than the working people who are fighting for their conditions and a fair pay offer.

Likewise I know several people personally who have been affected by the recent Junior Doctors strike, yet simultaneously support them in their plight.

 

[Starmill]

GTRs service level during the overtime ban on weekdays is well over 70% of normal. I can’t post the source, butit is open on my screen right now.

I know that for some GTR routes it is reduced signifciantly (including mine), but for many it is not, or only marginally.

Weekends and on the day cancellations should be better this time round as driver avaialbility is much better in January/February than November / December (as always).

I don't think anyone could reasonably challenge on any of these points. However, as I'm sure you'd agree, this is still no way to run a passenger service.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't think anyone could reasonably challenge on any of these points. However, as I'm sure you'd agree, this is still no way to run a passenger service.

Agreed

 

[OneOfThe48]

Its only 33% at Redhill and then GTR manage to conspire to have both London bound trains 9mins apart despite endless requests to at least get closer to a half hourly service. I'll give them credit that they at least activated most of the Vic-Gatwick Q paths last time we had industrial action.

Conspire? I thought that was because the times of the first trains of the day were replicated throughout the day. Not saying it was a good result for passengers, but it had a reason why they were timed like that.

Though it should apparently be 'solved' for the coming overtime ban, no doubt following the 'endless requests' to fix it!

 

[Horizon22]

. You say the same thing every time, including about the RMT dispute, and things changed there!

ASLEF’s strategy is to apply pressure “little and often”, but not overdo it to keep the membership whole financially, and run the clock down until the government decides to settle the dispute (as it has done in other areas) or gets kicked out of office. Seems sensible enough to me.

I’ll have to say though it appears to me the impact is getting less and less each time.

In plenty of locations people can easily plan around the (limited) service provision or just shift a day for working from home or travel a day earlier/later; a good proportion of rail travellers remain commuters in London & SE.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not making any comment for or against the merits of the drivers' case.

But as a passenger, with a fixed pot of money to run the railways, the more of that which goes on salaries, the less is left to spend on more services, upgrades etc.

Of course all rail staff deserve a fair salary, but it's not a given that rail enthusiasts would automatically support any pay increases.

 

[Bald Rick]

ASLEF’s strategy is to apply pressure “little and often”, but not overdo it to keep the membership whole financially, and run the clock down until the government decides to settle the dispute (as it has done in other areas) or gets kicked out of office. Seems sensible enough to me.

Which is fair enough.

But the Government has clearly signalled it is not interested in settling the dispute on ASLEF‘s terms. So the strategy appears to be to sit it out in the (rather likely) expectation of a change in Government.

In which case, what is the point of taking action now? What difference does it make to the end result that will presumably come when a new Government is in power?

All it does is lose members pay, and annoy quite a swathe of the travelling public.

I don’t get it.

 

[Train_manager]

I'm not making any comment for or against the merits of the drivers' case.

But as a passenger, with a fixed pot of money to run the railways, the more of that which goes on salaries, the less is left to spend on more services, upgrades etc.

Of course all rail staff deserve a fair salary, but it's not a given that rail enthusiasts would automatically support any pay increases.

I'm bored to tears on the subject.

But rail fares are set by the Tory government. Fact !!

Rail fares have been increased by the same Tory government during this dispute.

Oh and train drivers haven't had a payrise for 4 years.

Accept freight drivers!!

 

[aavm]

Train strikes: Here's how much train drivers are paid around Europe

Train strikes over pay disputes are common. But what are train drivers actually paid?

www.euronews.com

(Euronews is a TV news channel. Article compares EU and UK train driver salaries. It says that UK train drivers earn much more than their EU counterparts, nearly twice that of French and German drivers)
If correct, it would seem that Aslef has done an outstanding job for its members over the years.
However, with industry income significantly down compared to before covid, where is any more money going to come from?

 

[Mwanesh]

There we go again. I booked a coach instead of a train. Every time I have plans the guys are on strike.

 

[800001]

I'm bored to tears on the subject.

But rail fares are set by the Tory government. Fact !!

Rail fares have been increased by the same Tory government during this dispute.

Oh and train drivers haven't had a payrise for 4 years.

Accept freight drivers!!

Train drivers in Scotland, Wales and at any TOC not currently managed by the DFT have all had pay settlements agreed.

 

[MikeWM]

GTRs service level during the overtime ban on weekdays is well over 70% of normal. I can’t post the source, butit is open on my screen right now.

I wonder how that splits between GN, TL and Southern? Given the latter run rather more trains than the other two combined, that can skew the figures quite a bit. (Or, as you suggest, maybe the effect is simply unevenly spread out, with some lines badly affected and others not so much.)

Maybe something to try to calculate this time around, if I remember

 

[Train_manager]

Train drivers in Scotland, Wales and at any TOC not currently managed by the DFT have all had pay settlements agreed.

Yes that's right. I've previously stated the same. I was far to quick to hit send on my message.

#Aslef.

 

[ComUtoR]

I’ll have to say though it appears to me the impact is getting less and less each time.

From who's perspective ? Internally its making things worse. Internal disruption is spiralling out of control and each strike and ASOS brings more problems. If the goal is to disrupt the TOCs, they are doing a good job.

But as a passenger, with a fixed pot of money to run the railways, the more of that which goes on salaries, the less is left to spend on more services, upgrades etc.

As has been highlighted many times. Each pot of money has its own budget/resources. Paying people less or simply controlling people related resource budgets will never magically make the railway cheaper or better run. Neither will it suddenly increase investment or upgrades.

Staffing is important to passengers. How the railway is staffed and what staff do on the ground is critical to passenger perception. The panacea may appear to be all about wages, it really isn't. That's the dystopic future they want you to believe in. It can also take a lot of investment to remove staff.

The railway does not use its resources efficiently or cost effectively. One thing I do agree with on the Governments side (sorry) is that we do have some out of date working practices but the Gov are so epically stupid that they have zero clue with the changes to the T&Cs they want to make are are too busy making political statements and spouting rhetoric than actually dealing with the issues.

As a passenger I want to see a fair number of improvements. Sadly, as an internal I know they will never happen. I generally don't pay, so I'm lucky in that respect but again, as a passenger, when I do pay, I am stunned at what value I actually get from my ticket price. I want investment in the railway. Not just because I work there but because I see the genuine problems that exist for passengers and how the railway could be improved at every level.

Something I learned long time ago in a Galax... previous life. If you invest in your staff, you WILL get more out of them.

 

[Train_manager]

Train strikes: Here's how much train drivers are paid around Europe

Train strikes over pay disputes are common. But what are train drivers actually paid?

www.euronews.com

(Euronews is a TV news channel)
If correct, it would seem that Aslef has done an outstanding job for its members over the years.
However, with industry income significantly down compared to before covid, where is any more money going to come from?

But there isn't an average for UK because the range goes from 50k to 80k+

And half the UK train drivers haven't been on strike !!!!

 

[jayah]

Your right, it did work well in December. There was chaos spread over 10 days. It proved a very effective way of acting, whilst individual members lose at most one day's pay for over a week of disruption. After 5 years with no reasonable payoffer from Dft what else is Aslef to do?

It can't have been that successful. If they had done a better job of trashing their businesses, they wouldn't still have their jobs.

 

[aleandrail]

There we go again. I booked a coach instead of a train. Every time I have plans the guys are on strike.

That's the good thing. On disruptive days you can book alternative transport and then return to the trains when things are normal.

 

[jayah]

I'm bored to tears on the subject.

But rail fares are set by the Tory government. Fact !!

Rail fares have been increased by the same Tory government during this dispute.

Oh and train drivers haven't had a payrise for 4 years.

Accept freight drivers!!

To be fair a substantial pay rise has been on the table for a long time now.

Freight drivers work for real businesses and if they took delight in wrecking their employers business, they would be signing on at short order.

There is a reason why strikes are endemic in the public sector and it because the striking workers get to delight in disruption maximisation and walk back into their jobs the next day as if nothing had happened.

 

[DJP78]

Although this one is likely to be different as the Minimum Service Bill has been passed!

Early reports suggest TOCs will be very reluctant to use new MSL laws, for fear of worsening disruption to service levels

To be fair a substantial pay rise has been on the table for a long time now.

Freight drivers work for real businesses and if they took delight in wrecking their employers business, they would be signing on at short order.

There is a reason why strikes are endemic in the public sector and it because the striking workers get to delight in disruption maximisation and walk back into their jobs the next day as if nothing had happened.

Amusing response. Appears that you delight in being provocative lol.

Striking is hugely significant and no one takes part in industrial action unless absolutely necessary, especially given people on strike receive no pay. Also worth noting these are the biggest Railway strikes in over 30 years, demonstrating that the industry is more accustomed to running trains than battling obnoxious politicians that seek to thrive on culture wars.

I'd suggest that wider public sector disputes are as a result of 13-14 years of Conservative misrule, ideologically driven austerity, the eroding of pay and working conditions, all of which have brought the country and its public services to its knees.

It isn't the pay rise that is controversial. It's the conditions attached to it......

From who's perspective ? Internally its making things worse. Internal disruption is spiralling out of control and each strike and ASOS brings more problems. If the goal is to disrupt the TOCs, they are doing a good job.



As has been highlighted many times. Each pot of money has its own budget/resources. Paying people less or simply controlling people related resource budgets will never magically make the railway cheaper or better run. Neither will it suddenly increase investment or upgrades.

Staffing is important to passengers. How the railway is staffed and what staff do on the ground is critical to passenger perception. The panacea may appear to be all about wages, it really isn't. That's the dystopic future they want you to believe in. It can also take a lot of investment to remove staff.

The railway does not use its resources efficiently or cost effectively. One thing I do agree with on the Governments side (sorry) is that we do have some out of date working practices but the Gov are so epically stupid that they have zero clue with the changes to the T&Cs they want to make are are too busy making political statements and spouting rhetoric than actually dealing with the issues.

As a passenger I want to see a fair number of improvements. Sadly, as an internal I know they will never happen. I generally don't pay, so I'm lucky in that respect but again, as a passenger, when I do pay, I am stunned at what value I actually get from my ticket price. I want investment in the railway. Not just because I work there but because I see the genuine problems that exist for passengers and how the railway could be improved at every level.

Something I learned long time ago in a Galax... previous life. If you invest in your staff, you WILL get more out of them.

Totally agree with the above.

There are some really obvious ways in which the railways could make more efficient use of their budgets, particularly around rolling stock and infrastructure ownership models. Investment is urgently needed. Attacking T's & C's is not the answer.

And the government need to be honest with the public about subsidy levels. Railways were never designed to turn a profit. Railways are workhorses. They are the backbone to any successful economy and should be there to serve the country by promoting business and industry. Railways add billions to UK GDP by facilitating high street footfall, tourism, leisure & commuting.

They are essential to reducing carbon emissions by removing thousands of cars from the roads.

Our railways should be making the country a wealthier and more prosperous place. It is such a wasted opportunity that this government have no idea how to unlock its potential

 

[NI 271]

In fact, I can't be bothered.

 

[class 9]

To be fair a substantial pay rise has been on the table for a long time now.

Freight drivers work for real businesses and if they took delight in wrecking their employers business, they would be signing on at short order.

There is a reason why strikes are endemic in the public sector and it because the striking workers get to delight in disruption maximisation and walk back into their jobs the next day as if nothing had happened.

You really are talking absolute nonsense regards Drivers ' get to delight' from striking, this is the first time I've been on strike in over 30 years on the job, I take no delight whatsoever in it, I definitely am not prepared to accept the last 'offer' and the bonfire of T&Cs attached to it.
Just to add, FOCs have been subject to strike ballots in the past, but being real businesses as you put it,they sat down with the unions and thrashed out solutions.

 

[Train_manager]

Just to add, FOCs have been subject to strike ballots in the past, but being real businesses as you put it,they sat down with the unions and thrashed out solutions.

Yes and all FOCs( not DRS ) have offered there staff ( not just there drivers) around 7% ish. Including DB cargo !!!!!