Avanti have blocked online sales of Anytime/Off-Peak first-class fares on shorter routes

[MKB]

I posted last month about the fact that Avanti had pulled all Advance fares on their services between London and Stafford. They have now gone a step further. They have blocked flexible first-class fares on shorter routes from online sales against their trains.

For example, from Liverpool, you can't buy first-class tickets online on Avanti direct services to anywhere north of Milton Keynes. They have confirmed to me via Twitter Direct Message that the only option is to buy a flexible ticket from a station and hope a first-class seat is available once on board; there is no way to reserve an Avanti seat in advance from Liverpool unless you are travelling to Milton Keynes Central, Watford Junction or London Euston.

Obviously, if the flexible ticket is not an Avanti-only one, it's possible to book it online for a non-Avanti train, but you still can't get a seat reservation on Avanti.

Will a station sell me an Avanti-only First Class Single, such as Liverpool to Crewe say?

 

[APT618S]

You could simply get a first class reservation from Liverpool to Euston on the GWR.com website which is free and use it with a shorter flexible ticket :

Seat reservations | Great Western Railway

Reserving a seat can sometimes be confusing. So, we’ve put together a quick guide to help when you plan your journey.

www.gwr.com

 

[bengolding]

I posted last month about the fact that Avanti had pulled all Advance fares on their services between London and Stafford. They have now gone a step further. They have blocked flexible first-class fares on shorter routes from online sales against their trains.

For example, from Liverpool, you can't buy first-class tickets online on Avanti direct services to anywhere north of Milton Keynes. They have confirmed to me via Twitter Direct Message that the only option is to buy a flexible ticket from a station and hope a first-class seat is available once on board; there is no way to reserve an Avanti seat in advance from Liverpool unless you are travelling to Milton Keynes Central, Watford Junction or London Euston.

Obviously, if the flexible ticket is not an Avanti-only one, it's possible to book it online for a non-Avanti train, but you still can't get a seat reservation on Avanti.

Will a station sell me an Avanti-only Off-Peak First Class Single, such as Liverpool to Crewe say?

Hello all,

This is interesting. I’ve not travelled regularly since 2020 with Avanti in First and will do so in a month using flexible various medium distance First tickets.

Looking at Advance First prices for friends recently, it seems clear to me that Avanti have made a recent corporate pricing decision to not offer any of the cheaper Advance First tier of tickets that were previously offered at quieter periods. Of course, converting one Pendolino coach to Standard Premium has further reduced number of First seating but to the average traveller, £64 First Advance from Coventry to Euston late at night is unaffordable. Friends recently booked excellent value First Advances on a direct 70 minute Avanti route from Cheshire. Mysteriously, last week they removed all First and Standard Advances from sale on this route, in favour of Advance Standard Premium fairs priced at 2.5x the First Advance price initially paid.

I’m quite fortunate in ability to pay personally for flexible First tickets. But it’s A shame that GWR, EMR and LNER offer much better value on First Advance tickets on comparable 100 mile journey is out of London. Compounded with your point that Avanti no longer offer short distance seat reservations for flexible short distance journeys for those requiring it, it’s a further decline in value.

 

[MKB]

You could simply get a first class reservation from Liverpool to Euston on the GWR.com website which is free and use it with a shorter flexible ticket :

Seat reservations | Great Western Railway

Reserving a seat can sometimes be confusing. So, we’ve put together a quick guide to help when you plan your journey.

www.gwr.com

That's really useful to know. Thanks!

I should mention that another reason why buying at the station is a bad option is that I lose the 10% discount (via Amex cashback) that I get currently booking via LNER.

Anyone know if Avanti's franchise agreement allows them not to make the full range of Anytime and Off-Peak fares available when there is actually a seat on board?

 

[Starmill]

A conductor or booking office ough to be able to issue you with a First Class off peak or Anytime if that's what you're after, even if no seat reservation is available.

 

[northwichcat]

I've found a lot of Avanti services seem to have no seats left to reserve even a few weeks before travel. If they are telling long distance passengers that no further seats are available to reserve, then it's not surprising that they don't want local passengers reserving seats.

 

[MKB]

I've found a lot of Avanti services seem to have no seats left to reserve even a few weeks before travel. If they are telling long distance passengers that no further seats are available to reserve, then it's not surprising that they don't want local passengers reserving seats.

That's true, but this relates to *all* Avanti trains on the route on any day, including ones that were only opened for reservations yesterday, and many which have cheapish Advance fares available from Liverpool to Euston.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I discovered this a few months ago, as I noticed that Avanti had stripped the sale of any Advance First tickets between Preston and Crewe, yet they were available between Preston and London/Wolverhampton on the same trains and they gave me a strange response supposedly blaming the reduced timetable for them removing the availability of First Class tickets on shorter journeys- which didn't really make sense in my opinion.

 

[_toommm_]

PDATE: It only seems to allow reservations if you've bought the ticket on that website, and Avanti-only Off-Peak First-Class Singles can't be booked online there. I'd have to pay the premium for an any-operator ticket. (If I were travelling on London NorthWestern, I'd go standard class anyway. I only need a ticket valid on Avanti.)

It does indeed let you.The process to reserve is as follows once you're on the 'My Account' page:

• Click 'View Bookings'
• Click 'Make a seat/bike reservation'
• Click 'Next'
• Put in your journey details, and in your case, un-tick the box for standard class.
• It'll then show you all journeys possible between Liverpool and Crewe. Of course you can't reserve on Northern services, so it'll show on ticket types.
• Under the service you want, let's say the 14:47 tomorrow, click any of the First Class tickets. The reservation isn't tied to your ticket so it doesn't really matter which one you click:

Choose your preferences of direction, seat type etc., and you are left with this:

 

[Miken]

I encountered this some time ago trying to buy a 1st anytime from Manchester to Macclesfield, no fares available but if the destination changed to Euston then magically fares/seats would suddenly be available. At the time I bought a Standard and upgraded with the TM as I boarded - coach J was almost empty. The TM said to me it was a deliberate policy to deter shorter 1st journeys and then blamed the DFT for the decision.

 

[MKB]

It does indeed let you.The process to reserve is as follows once you're on the 'My Account' page:

• Click 'View Bookings'
• Click 'Make a seat/bike reservation'
• Click 'Next'
• Put in your journey details, and in your case, un-tick the box for standard class.
• It'll then show you all journeys possible between Liverpool and Crewe. Of course you can't reserve on Northern services, so it'll show on ticket types.
• Under the service you want, let's say the 14:47 tomorrow, click any of the First Class tickets. The reservation isn't tied to your ticket so it doesn't really matter which one you click:

View attachment 114133

Choose your preferences of direction, seat type etc., and you are left with this:

View attachment 114132

Got it now! Thanks! That's the reservation bit sorted then.

Just running the numbers, my best option for Liverpool to Stafford would appear to be (and this is for two passengers travelling off-peak using a Two-Together railcard):

LIV-STA Off-Peak First-Class Single - £23.85 each
= £42.93 booked via LNER with 10% cashback

This compares to what I paid last month:
LIV-CRE Anytime Avanti-only Anytime Single - £10.55 each
CRE-STA Anytime Avanti-only Anytime Single - £11.40 each
= £39.51 booked via LNER with 10% cashback

It's only £3.42 more, but it's annoying when the latter fares are supposed to be publicly available.

 

[Flying Snail]

Of course if they are no longer selling Advance 1sts then the chances of 1st being in any way busy to the point you wouldn't be able to sit is going to be tiny so perhaps not fretting over getting a reservation would be okay.

 

[NoOnesFool]

I find this a disgrace. It's actually outrageous! I often travel First Class on 'short' journeys, in the past year, I have travelled from Rugby to Birmingham New Street in Avanti First Class and also Manchester Piccadilly - Lichfield Trent Valley. My money and custom is as good as anyone else's. I wonder if they would have made this decision had they not shrunk their First Class carriages on the majority of their trains by a third for "Standard Premium". Rail operators should be duty bound to offer the full range of tickets at every outlet. Is it not in Avanti's franchise agreement that they must provide First Class facilities? Surely they are in breach of the agreement if they are restricting access to these facilities and cherry picking the passengers who use them.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm confused, I can book Advance and First Class tickets between Euston and Stafford and also a First single and reserve a set between Liverpool and Crewe on the LNER site.

 

[Bungle965]

Will a station sell me an Avanti-only First Class Single, such as Liverpool to Crewe say?

Yes, as will the website.

 

[MKB]

Yes, it has re-appeared on some weekday trains. Sadly, nothing on Sunday 8 May nor Sunday 22 May, the next two days I am travelling.

 

[Bungle965]

Yes, it has re-appeared on some weekday trains. Sadly, nothing on Sunday 8 May nor Sunday 22 May, the next two days I am travelling.

Was it for Liverpool to Crewe? Because I'm still getting prices.

 

[MKB]

It fails on the next-but-one screen.