Avanti West Coast Glasgow to London Services

[leomartin125]

Hi,

I've noticed that some of the Glasgow to London services during the week that are booked non stop through Crewe are calling at Crewe, example being today's 1M07 (linked below). Does anyone know why this is and why they aren't running as booked according to the Working Timetable?

Link: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C87863/2024-04-23/detailed

Many thanks!

 

[louis97]

Hi,

I've noticed that some of the Glasgow to London services during the week that are booked non stop through Crewe are calling at Crewe, example being today's 1M07 (linked below). Does anyone know why this is and why they aren't running as booked according to the Working Timetable?

Link: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C87863/2024-04-23/detailed

Many thanks!

For that particular train, the train before - the 0548 from Glasgow to London was cancelled.

 

[leomartin125]

For that particular train, the train before - the 0548 from Glasgow to London was cancelled.

Ahh right so this could be a one off. I only mention it because I have seen this happen regularly, multiple times a day for weeks, if not months now and wanted to query it. Maybe it's just that AWC cancel services so frequently that they have to keep adding these additional stop orders. Just wondered whether it was a regular thing now.

Many thanks!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Personally I think that every couple of hours one of the Glasgow London services should call their anyway as standard both to provide additional capacity on fast London services for passengers with connections at crew but also to restore journey opportunities that are less frequent now as there are fewer Birmingham Glasgow trains

 

[M&NEJ]

Personally I think that every couple of hours one of the Glasgow London services should call their anyway as standard both to provide additional capacity on fast London services for passengers with connections at crew but also to restore journey opportunities that are less frequent now as there are fewer Birmingham Glasgow trains

I agree. Most of the services that one can connect with at Crewe are hourly (or more frequent), so in my view there should be at least an hourly service in from the north!

 

[Blindtraveler]

And there is also currently too much reliant on the Merseyside trains forming the primary fast Euston i.e last stop Stafford or sometimes even non-stop London with many of the services from Preston or Blackpool and all of the services from Edinburgh going via the West Midlands and the services from North Wales currently being rather busy on arrival and also making various random additional calls either on the Trent valley or at Milton Keynes or Watford.

1 type of five coach train with another on some of these workings will make but I do appreciate that these are longer and will carry more standard class accommodation but still the new stock replacing voyagers is in my view going to be too short and we'll quickly become over capacity

 

[mangyiscute]

I agree. Most of the services that one can connect with at Crewe are hourly (or more frequent), so in my view there should be at least an hourly service in from the north!

The Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham service does provide an hourly link from the north to Crewe, and the response I've had when previously suggesting that the Glasgow to Euston fast trains stop at Crewe is that it would be impossible to path in the current timetable.

 

[The Planner]

The Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham service does provide an hourly link from the north to Crewe, and the response I've had when previously suggesting that the Glasgow to Euston fast trains stop at Crewe is that it would be impossible to path in the current timetable.

Personally I think that every couple of hours one of the Glasgow London services should call their anyway as standard both to provide additional capacity on fast London services for passengers with connections at crew but also to restore journey opportunities that are less frequent now as there are fewer Birmingham Glasgow trains

A Crewe stop costs around 6 minutes normally. Based on the current timetable, if your up fast Glasgow runs 6 minutes later currently it catches up with the LNWR Crewe service and follows it from Rugby, there is also the potential for it to knock the Manchester that would follow it from Colwich as well as the LNWR that crosses slow to fast at Ledburn.

 

[mangyiscute]

And also trains stopping at Crewe often get delayed due to other trains occupying platforms etc, so you'd like the train to have a bit more slack on the rest of the schedule if it was to stop at Crewe.
The non-stop can just fly through the unoccupied non-platform tracks and I assume it'll usually be given priority over delayed trains, so this is less of an issue.

 

[Deafdoggie]

A Crewe stop costs around 6 minutes normally. Based on the current timetable, if your up fast Glasgow runs 6 minutes later currently it catches up with the LNWR Crewe service and follows it from Rugby, there is also the potential for it to knock the Manchester that would follow it from Colwich as well as the LNWR that crosses slow to fast at Ledburn.

Why can't it run 6 minutes earlier pre-Crewe?

 

[The Planner]

Why can't it run 6 minutes earlier pre-Crewe?

Clashes with two trains at Motherwell, one being the Glasgow Lanark, the other the Cumbernauld Dalmuir. It is also tight with the Manchester Airport Edinburgh services in alternate hours at Carstairs. Also catches a Shieldmuir Willesden in the hours they run at Gretna. Then catches the Glasgow Liverpool in the hours that runs. Then the Manchester Llandudno at Warrington.

 

[Falcon1200]

The Glasgow/Edinburgh to Birmingham service does provide an hourly link from the north to Crewe

Although post-Covid some of the Glasgow via Birmingham trains are still missing, leaving 4 hour gaps in that service. Hopefully these will, one day, be restored, as the connectional opportunities at Crewe are most useful.

 

[Peter0124]

It's better for the missing Glasgow via Birningham services to return, rather than the Trent Valley services to call at Crewe.

 

[Bald Rick]

Although post-Covid some of the Glasgow via Birmingham trains are still missing, leaving 4 hour gaps in that service. Hopefully these will, one day, be restored, as the connectional opportunities at Crewe are most useful.

Isn’t the answer for those in Glasgow wanting to get to Crewe in the gaps where the via W Mids train isn’t running to catch the Euston fast train, and change into the following via W Mids train at one of Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston, Wigan or Warrington? It’s a well timed (about 18 mins) and pretty secure connection.

Yes it’s an extra change, but te number of people from Glasgow who specifically want Crewe or a connection from there that is not provided for in other, better ways must be pretty small.

 

[Peter0124]

Isn’t the answer for those in Glasgow wanting to get to Crewe in the gaps where the via W Mids train isn’t running to catch the Euston fast train, and change into the following via W Mids train at one of Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston, Wigan or Warrington? It’s a well timed (about 18 mins) and pretty secure connection.

The northbound is a bit longer tho. The missing via W Mids services are best coming back I think at some point. Though there are more northbound via W Mids services serving Glasgow than southbound.

 

[Class 170101]

The issue is heading north of Crewe, eg Stafford / Wolverhampton to Warrington / Wigan is only hourly (at best)

I would argue there should be a second train at Crewe towards Preston (at least) otherwise people are rtequired to travel via Manchester

 

[Falcon1200]

Isn’t the answer for those in Glasgow wanting to get to Crewe in the gaps where the via W Mids train isn’t running to catch the Euston fast train, and change into the following via W Mids train at one of Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston, Wigan or Warrington? It’s a well timed (about 18 mins) and pretty secure connection.

Yes it’s an extra change, but te number of people from Glasgow who specifically want Crewe or a connection from there that is not provided for in other, better ways must be pretty small.

As Peter0124 says, the northbound connection is more like 50 minutes, although TPE services are available if ticketing permits. However the trains do not just serve Crewe of course, they also link two of the UK's biggest cities in Glasgow and Birmingham, and four hour gaps in the direct service between them is extremely poor.

 

[mangyiscute]

I'd like to see an extension of perhaps the London to Crewe LNWR services to Preston (I think this may have been done before) which would then provide more journey opportunities from the West Midlands up the WCML and towards Scotland, people who want a direct train would still have an hourly direct service, but for those of us who are happy to change if it means that the service effectively goes to 2tph this would be very useful.
Or perhaps, because I think that wouldn't work pathing wise, divert one of the Birmingham to Liverpool services to Preston instead and then extend the London to Crewe service to Liverpool, running fast from Crewe to Runcorn.

 

[dk1]

Clashes with two trains at Motherwell, one being the Glasgow Lanark, the other the Cumbernauld Dalmuir. It is also tight with the Manchester Airport Edinburgh services in alternate hours at Carstairs. Also catches a Shieldmuir Willesden in the hours they run at Gretna. Then catches the Glasgow Liverpool in the hours that runs. Then the Manchester Llandudno at Warrington.

This is why I have always found train planning so fascinating. People thinks additional stops or the odd few minutes don’t matter but they very much do. Every little thing here and there has a consequence somewhere else.

 

[Lucy1501]

Isn’t the answer for those in Glasgow wanting to get to Crewe in the gaps where the via W Mids train isn’t running to catch the Euston fast train, and change into the following via W Mids train at one of Carlisle, Lancaster, Preston, Wigan or Warrington? It’s a well timed (about 18 mins) and pretty secure connection.

Indeed it isn't that bad of a connection - I've done it many times albeit from Carlisle and Penrith as its slightly cheaper to get advanced tickets on the fast train and change at Warrington or Wigan to the Birmingham train!

 

[Railperf]

I'd like to see an extension of perhaps the London to Crewe LNWR services to Preston (I think this may have been done before) which would then provide more journey opportunities from the West Midlands up the WCML and towards Scotland, people who want a direct train would still have an hourly direct service, but for those of us who are happy to change if it means that the service effectively goes to 2tph this would be very useful.
Or perhaps, because I think that wouldn't work pathing wise, divert one of the Birmingham to Liverpool services to Preston instead and then extend the London to Crewe service to Liverpool, running fast from Crewe to Runcorn.

What is needed is secondary service Crewe to Preston because it is the only section seemingly not served by a second operator. Also would help compete on the pricing front.

 

[dk1]

What is needed is secondary service Crewe to Preston because it is the only section seemingly not served by a second operator. Also would help compete on the pricing front.

Was going to be FNW using 309s at one time but the plan got blocked.