Aviation Discussion

[atillathehunn]

The board of directors at Norwegian Air have approved plans to create a Argentinian 'arm' of the business. Plans to operate domestic and international flights (international flights believed to be between Gatwick & Buenos Aires from what I've read elsewhere) could possibly be confirmed by the end of the year. The airline is awaiting the green light from the authorities in Argentina regarding issuing of an operating certificate.

Link below for anyone whose interested.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/278771/norwegian-plots-low-cost-flights-from-argentina

Cheers

Ben

Latin America is a hot destination for both older more monied travellers and the more traditional unwashed backpacking trail. I would think the route will do quite well. From London I believe BA has a monopoly to Buenos Aires.

 

[fowler9]

Latin America is a hot destination for both older more monied travellers and the more traditional unwashed backpacking trail. I would think the route will do quite well. From London I believe BA has a monopoly to Buenos Aires.

Yeah that could be interesting. Does anyone fly direct from the UK to Chile or Argentina apart from BA?

As an aside my brother flew from Heathrow to Bogota last night on Avianca. Said he had a brilliant flight. First in the family on a 787. Very jealous. I'm still the only person in the family to travel on a 747, 777 and A340 though. Sadly with the A340 I can see it staying that way.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yeah that could be interesting. Does anyone fly direct from the UK to Chile or Argentina apart from BA?

As an aside my brother flew from Heathrow to Bogota last night on Avianca. Said he had a brilliant flight. First in the family on a 787. Very jealous. I'm still the only person in the family to travel on a 747, 777 and A340 though. Sadly with the A340 I can see it staying that way.

If he is coming back the same route, he can expect a rather different welcome than most transatlantic passengers receive. A friend of mine did this a couple of weeks ago, and all the passengers were lined up on arrival at Heathrow whilst the sniffer dogs had a good poke around. Presumably to the sound of rubber gloves being deployed. (I don't know whether this was pre or post baggage reclaim, or how they quarantined the passengers).

 

[atillathehunn]

Yeah that could be interesting. Does anyone fly direct from the UK to Chile or Argentina apart from BA?

As an aside my brother flew from Heathrow to Bogota last night on Avianca. Said he had a brilliant flight. First in the family on a 787. Very jealous. I'm still the only person in the family to travel on a 747, 777 and A340 though. Sadly with the A340 I can see it staying that way.

AFAIK BA has a monopoly on both routes. I would imagine SCL is a stretch on limits, and may be weight restricted. Competition on that route would probably stretch margins too low.

There is of course competition to Brazil, but other than it looks like a monopoly on most other South American routes.

BA have spread theirs a little between the two London airports.

Lima goes from Gatwick, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo and Rio from LHR. Avianca, AeroMexico, TAM also from LHR. Now Norwegian from LGW.

The direct options to South America are quite poor. Only direct flights to 5 cities. By comparison, I believe there are direct flights to 15 (possibly more) cities on the African continent.

 

[atillathehunn]

If he is coming back the same route, he can expect a rather different welcome than most transatlantic passengers receive. A friend of mine did this a couple of weeks ago, and all the passengers were lined up on arrival at Heathrow whilst the sniffer dogs had a good poke around. Presumably to the sound of rubber gloves being deployed. (I don't know whether this was pre or post baggage reclaim, or how they quarantined the passengers).

After that British pair were famously banged up in Peru with quite a substantial amount of the Marching Powder on them, I would imagine things are fairly strict now.

 

[fowler9]

If he is coming back the same route, he can expect a rather different welcome than most transatlantic passengers receive. A friend of mine did this a couple of weeks ago, and all the passengers were lined up on arrival at Heathrow whilst the sniffer dogs had a good poke around. Presumably to the sound of rubber gloves being deployed. (I don't know whether this was pre or post baggage reclaim, or how they quarantined the passengers).

I'll give him a heads up. Cheers mate.

 

[fowler9]

AFAIK BA has a monopoly on both routes. I would imagine SCL is a stretch on limits, and may be weight restricted. Competition on that route would probably stretch margins too low.

There is of course competition to Brazil, but other than it looks like a monopoly on most other South American routes.

BA have spread theirs a little between the two London airports.

Lima goes from Gatwick, Santiago, Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo and Rio from LHR. Avianca, AeroMexico, TAM also from LHR. Now Norwegian from LGW.

The direct options to South America are quite poor. Only direct flights to 5 cities. By comparison, I believe there are direct flights to 15 (possibly more) cities on the African continent.

I am guessing TAM are now LATAM which had me wondering why BA have started a direct route to Santiago but not LATAM or LAN in the first place?

Slightly of subject but we have a piano in our house and way back when we had a piano tuner visit and it just so happened that what he loved doing with his earnings was round the world plane trips, at least once a year. He said the scariest airline he ever flew with was Varig. (That is going way back, it was a DC10).

 

[atillathehunn]

I am guessing TAM are now LATAM which had me wondering why BA have started a direct route to Santiago but not LATAM or LAN in the first place?

Slightly of subject but we have a piano in our house and way back when we had a piano tuner visit and it just so happened that what he loved doing with his earnings was round the world plane trips, at least once a year. He said the scariest airline he ever flew with was Varig. (That is going way back, it was a DC10).

I assume availability of slots, aircraft etc and they pipped them to the post.

Haven't heard of Varig. To make the list that must be impressive.

 

[fowler9]

I assume availability of slots, aircraft etc and they pipped them to the post.

Haven't heard of Varig. To make the list that must be impressive.

Back when I was a lad in the 70's and 80's VARIG were Brasils national carrier. It is just our piano tuners opnion of them and it may just have been caused by turbulence flying over Brasil towards the North Atlantic which I believe is notorious. I certainly had a very bumpy flight from Buenos Aires until we cleared the land. Something to do with the hot air rising.

 

[atillathehunn]

Back when I was a lad in the 70's and 80's VARIG were Brasils national carrier. It is just our piano tuners opnion of them and it may just have been caused by turbulence flying over Brasil towards the North Atlantic which I believe is notorious. I certainly had a very bumpy flight from Buenos Aires until we cleared the land. Something to do with the hot air rising.

Oh that's interesting - afraid I'm not quite old enough to remember that! These older airlines are of interest though. Various residents of my parents village commuted regularly to Pakistan on the old routes via Brussels, Athens, Damascus. Another friend was telling us recently of their journey to and from boarding school in the UK from South America on a Comet. Notorious for falling apart. I believe a few stops in Brazil, thence to Dakar, Lisbon and finally London.

I believe there's a point across the ocean pretty notorious for turbulence. Possibly where that AF447 went down.

 

[fowler9]

Oh that's interesting - afraid I'm not quite old enough to remember that! These older airlines are of interest though. Various residents of my parents village commuted regularly to Pakistan on the old routes via Brussels, Athens, Damascus. Another friend was telling us recently of their journey to and from boarding school in the UK from South America on a Comet. Notorious for falling apart. I believe a few stops in Brazil, thence to Dakar, Lisbon and finally London.

I believe there's a point across the ocean pretty notorious for turbulence. Possibly where that AF447 went down.

I remember chatting to him as a kid. Even then in the early 80's I thought I'd never get to do it. I did actually get to do it but I don't quite earn enough to do it every year. Actually I possibly do but would have to bin off every other social engagement of the year. This guy used to fly around the world every year by different routes.

 

[atillathehunn]

I remember chatting to him as a kid. Even then in the early 80's I thought I'd never get to do it. I did actually get to do it but I don't quite earn enough to do it every year. Actually I possibly do but would have to bin off every other social engagement of the year. This guy used to fly around the world every year by different routes.

*Makes note of piano tuning as a money-spinning alternative career....*

I believe there was a guy on KLM who flew a route every week. I'm not able to search for it right now, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I believe he was retired (I think you'd have to be).

It's been a slow flying year so far, with a potential spike coming in the next few months.

 

[gsnedders]

Given the discussion a few weeks ago with several people, myself included, claiming that choosing a seat online for a BA flight at check-in time normally worked out fine: I'm about to have my first bad experience of relying on this, despite flying with BA "quite a lot" (I realise by many business standards I really don't, but I don't personally know anybody who flies more if we exclude people whose job descriptions include speaking at conferences). I'm on BA48 today, from Seattle to Heathrow: this is one of their new 86-business seat refurbished 747s (with, for reference, 145 economy seats).

I checked in about an hour after it opened yesterday (I'd been driving back to Seattle at the time it opened!), to find myself with all but two economy seats already taken, both middle seats. Oh well… this will be a grim flight. Exit-row window seat on the domestic leg tomorrow, though!

 

[Crawley Ben]

Given the discussion a few weeks ago with several people, myself included, claiming that choosing a seat online for a BA flight at check-in time normally worked out fine: I'm about to have my first bad experience of relying on this, despite flying with BA "quite a lot" (I realise by many business standards I really don't, but I don't personally know anybody who flies more if we exclude people whose job descriptions include speaking at conferences). I'm on BA48 today, from Seattle to Heathrow: this is one of their new 86-business seat refurbished 747s (with, for reference, 145 economy seats).

I checked in about an hour after it opened yesterday (I'd been driving back to Seattle at the time it opened!), to find myself with all but two economy seats already taken, both middle seats. Oh well… this will be a grim flight. Exit-row window seat on the domestic leg tomorrow, though!

I travelled on BA67 this week from Heathrow - Philadelphia on a 747, and I have to say the plane looked pretty tired to say the least. I appreciate that they are old aircraft now, but surely some TLC is due seeing how blinking expensive BA are. The toilets were not in great shape, and I was unable to move my seat back as it was broken. Some poor service from some of the flight crew who frankly looked totally disinterested and spent most of the time chatting away whilst people had to keep getting up and asking them for drinks etc. I won't be rushing to book BA again in future I don't think.

Ben

 

[gsnedders]

I travelled on BA67 this week from Heathrow - Philadelphia on a 747, and I have to say the plane looked pretty tired to say the least. I appreciate that they are old aircraft now, but surely some TLC is due seeing how blinking expensive BA are. The toilets were not in great shape, and I was unable to move my seat back as it was broken. Some poor service from some of the flight crew who frankly looked totally disinterested and spent most of the time chatting away whilst people had to keep getting up and asking them for drinks etc. I won't be rushing to book BA again in future I don't think.

Ben

The 86-business seat aircraft are, I believe, the only 747s that are staying till the bitter end, and the refit for that was finished last year as part of a D-check when the whole cabin is completely stripped out anyway: I believe they're meant to be fine. The others, which are slowly going over the next few years (till 2023, IIRC, coinciding with 787 and A350 deliveries), are indeed getting worse and worse. Will be able to comment better in 12 hours or something!

(I haven't flown on a BA 747 since Sep 2013, I think, and any 747 since Oct/Nov 2015.)

 

[atillathehunn]

Given the discussion a few weeks ago with several people, myself included, claiming that choosing a seat online for a BA flight at check-in time normally worked out fine: I'm about to have my first bad experience of relying on this, despite flying with BA "quite a lot" (I realise by many business standards I really don't, but I don't personally know anybody who flies more if we exclude people whose job descriptions include speaking at conferences). I'm on BA48 today, from Seattle to Heathrow: this is one of their new 86-business seat refurbished 747s (with, for reference, 145 economy seats).

I checked in about an hour after it opened yesterday (I'd been driving back to Seattle at the time it opened!), to find myself with all but two economy seats already taken, both middle seats. Oh well… this will be a grim flight. Exit-row window seat on the domestic leg tomorrow, though!

That's grim. Clearly a flight full of people who know about the T-24 hours trick.

If it's full and you have status, you might just get an op-up...

I believe the super high J 747s aren't too shabby. The unrefurbished ones are a little retro.

 

[fowler9]

*Makes note of piano tuning as a money-spinning alternative career....*

I believe there was a guy on KLM who flew a route every week. I'm not able to search for it right now, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I believe he was retired (I think you'd have to be).

It's been a slow flying year so far, with a potential spike coming in the next few months.

I was on about 18 flights in 2 years up until last November not long after I lost the job I had. I was working again right away but for less money and I am really feeling it. Next flights are to Croatia and I can't see me getting away before that. Hopefully something later in the year.

 

[fowler9]

I travelled on BA67 this week from Heathrow - Philadelphia on a 747, and I have to say the plane looked pretty tired to say the least. I appreciate that they are old aircraft now, but surely some TLC is due seeing how blinking expensive BA are. The toilets were not in great shape, and I was unable to move my seat back as it was broken. Some poor service from some of the flight crew who frankly looked totally disinterested and spent most of the time chatting away whilst people had to keep getting up and asking them for drinks etc. I won't be rushing to book BA again in future I don't think.

Ben

Apologies as I think I have said this before but I was really unimpressed with my experience of BA long haul and short haul. 747 and 777 both had headrests falling off the seats and the cabin crew were surly. The short haul flights were just no better than much cheaper budget alternatives.

 

[atillathehunn]

Apologies as I think I have said this before but I was really unimpressed with my experience of BA long haul and short haul. 747 and 777 both had headrests falling off the seats and the cabin crew were surly. The short haul flights were just no better than much cheaper budget alternatives.

The upper deck WT on the BA A380 isn't too bad. The short haul seats aren't horrendous, but the leg room... what leg room?

 

[gsnedders]

That's grim. Clearly a flight full of people who know about the T-24 hours trick.

If it's full and you have status, you might just get an op-up...

I believe the super high J 747s aren't too shabby. The unrefurbished ones are a little retro.

I think it wasn't just that: an unusually high proportion of economy had status judging by how full is was by the time it started general boarding, so presumably a lot of the seats gone by T-24. (Sadly, I've not made status in a number of years, and the change (now several years ago) halving tier points for low-cost economy fares makes me continue to be unlikely to earn many.)

The aircraft was fine, though, albeit still with the old-style BA economy seats with their massive lateral support things that surely must only fit a child and make the seat seem super-narrow even to me (and I'm skinny!). Being in the middle surely didn't help that perception, though!

Agreed on upstairs on an A380—definitely the best BA long-haul economy product!

 

[TheEscapist_]

Said a while ago on this I was going to do the BA fear of flying course. Done that yesterday and I would highly recommend it for anyone with the fear or even just nervous. A long day but very informative with lots of information. A chance to speak to cabin crew and pilots too. Later in the day we went on an Embraer 190 for about an hour. Everyone on the course was totally changed by the end of it! Here is a photo of the flight we took.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fowler9]

Nice one Escapist. Hope it helped and that you will find it easier to take trips by plane in future. It opens up all kinds of options.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nice one Escapist. Hope it helped and that you will find it easier to take trips by plane in future. It opens up all kinds of options.

Indeed. E190/195s are lovely aircraft, too, I wish more airlines had them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

BA are no different to any other LCC. We all know that.

But the shabbiest plane I've been on for a long long time was today's EasyJet A319 from Newcastle to Bristol. It was pretty horrible internally, though for a 40 minute flight time it was fine (and better than a Voyager!).

I'll be sad when the 747s finally leave the skies, so many fond memories of them (CX not BA admittedly). But gosh they need to go.

Varig were the airline who flew Senna's body back to Brazil. I'm amazed they didn't ditch it. I thought Aerolineas Argentinas flew from Heathrow to Buenos Aires though?

 

[fowler9]

BA are no different to any other LCC. We all know that.

But the shabbiest plane I've been on for a long long time was today's EasyJet A319 from Newcastle to Bristol. It was pretty horrible internally, though for a 40 minute flight time it was fine (and better than a Voyager!).

I'll be sad when the 747s finally leave the skies, so many fond memories of them (CX not BA admittedly). But gosh they need to go.

Varig were the airline who flew Senna's body back to Brazil. I'm amazed they didn't ditch it. I thought Aerolineas Argentinas flew from Heathrow to Buenos Aires though?

No, Aerolineas Argentinas don't fly to Heathrow. Last thing I heard they struggled to keep their long haul aircraft flying. I believe the A340's were notorious which was a shame.

 

[AlterEgo]

BA are no different to any other LCC. We all know that.

Disagree.

BA are different because they don't admit being a LCC - particularly on short haul. I find their marketing and approach to almost every nuance of customer communication dishonest and insulting.

I recently got a Priority Pass and will use that to get me in lounges in the future until I've built up status with another alliance. The PP lounges are often better than the ones BA use, particularly at outstations.

At Arrecife, BA don't pay the airport for the use of the lounge. I'm a Gold Card holder and was also flying in Business. Tiresome and cheap.

(Luckily PP allowed me entry.)

 

[J-2739]

But the shabbiest plane I've been on for a long long time was today's EasyJet A319 from Newcastle to Bristol. It was pretty horrible internally, though for a 40 minute flight time it was fine (and better than a Voyager!).

I actually find the easyJet fleet quite pleasant, better than that vomit banana yellow on Ryanair (which are pretty good otherwise).

But yes, better than a Voyager.

 

[Bald Rick]

I actually find the easyJet fleet quite pleasant, better than that vomit banana yellow on Ryanair (which are pretty good otherwise).

Agreed. My Easyjet fleet experiences are universally good. That might be because I usually fly on Luton based aircraft.

Anyway I'm holding my nose and breaking my 14 year boycott of Ryanair in a couple of weeks, so will compare, contrast and report in.

 

[me123]

But the shabbiest plane I've been on for a long long time was today's EasyJet A319 from Newcastle to Bristol. It was pretty horrible internally, though for a 40 minute flight time it was fine (and better than a Voyager!).

easyJet are pretty decent all in all, but there are a few of the older A319s that are certainly quite shabby inside. But, get a newer plane and you're in for a decent flight.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I actually find the easyJet fleet quite pleasant, better than that vomit banana yellow on Ryanair (which are pretty good otherwise).

But yes, better than a Voyager.

This one had the seat covers hanging off the back of the seat in front on nearly every row, among other things, it was in an absolutely shocking state (although clean, just tatty). I'm guessing one of the oldest ones in their fleet.

Even then, still about a billion times better than five hours on a Voyager.

I can't really compare fairly with Ryanair, as my last few Ryanair flights have been on their brand new B737s, which are mostly blue.