Aviation Discussion

[AlterEgo]

In other news, I broke my 14 year Ryanair boycott 2 weeks ago. I can advise that the flight met all my expectations, and the boycott is reinstated with immediate effect.

Tatty aircraft, with dreadful interior.
Vinyl seats (thought they went out with the Austin Allegro?)
Uncomfortable seats (is there less space in an FR 737 than an EZY 319/320? It felt like it.)
No seat back pockets.
V. Expensive in flight refreshment (cr*p tea and a choc bar? £4.10 please!)
Cabin crew looked entirely disinterested. Also tatty.
Appalling service at destination - basically chucked out of plane and left on the apron for 30 min whilst border control did its stuff (slowly). The last people off waited an hour, in 30C direct sun with no shade.

On the return flight our travelling companions had their cabin bags put in the hold, even though there was plenty of space in the cabin.
Plane boarded on time, then sat on the apron for over an hour due to bad weather. The same bad weather that was happening for the hour before the plane was loaded, indeed before the inbound arrived. The pilot would have known he couldn't have departed, therefore no need for it to have been loaded at that time; decidedly uncomfortable for everyone.

And all for a mere £450 return for a 90 minute flight, booked the week the flights were released (yes, for half term, but still...)

Absolute shower. If you think Ryanair are good but don't use Easyjet, I strongly recommend that you reconsider. The boys and girls in orange knock spots off them on every single measure.

At least you managed to get in the air.

I tried FlyMayBe yesterday, Norwich to Exeter. Posted a 5h20m delay as I entered the airport building, so I collected my refund and went back home again!

They were really ****poor about it as well - no apology, even as I rang up to claim my cancellation and refund. I figured it was a duff aircraft at Alicante that caused the delay but no such explanation was forthcoming from the contract staff. Seethe.

However my disappointment was tempered by receiving, by chance, on the same day an offer from a UK-based airline of free travel if I post videos on YouTube.

 

[fowler9]

In other news, I broke my 14 year Ryanair boycott 2 weeks ago. I can advise that the flight met all my expectations, and the boycott is reinstated with immediate effect.

Tatty aircraft, with dreadful interior.
Vinyl seats (thought they went out with the Austin Allegro?)
Uncomfortable seats (is there less space in an FR 737 than an EZY 319/320? It felt like it.)
No seat back pockets.
V. Expensive in flight refreshment (cr*p tea and a choc bar? £4.10 please!)
Cabin crew looked entirely disinterested. Also tatty.
Appalling service at destination - basically chucked out of plane and left on the apron for 30 min whilst border control did its stuff (slowly). The last people off waited an hour, in 30C direct sun with no shade.

On the return flight our travelling companions had their cabin bags put in the hold, even though there was plenty of space in the cabin.
Plane boarded on time, then sat on the apron for over an hour due to bad weather. The same bad weather that was happening for the hour before the plane was loaded, indeed before the inbound arrived. The pilot would have known he couldn't have departed, therefore no need for it to have been loaded at that time; decidedly uncomfortable for everyone.

And all for a mere £450 return for a 90 minute flight, booked the week the flights were released (yes, for half term, but still...)

Absolute shower. If you think Ryanair are good but don't use Easyjet, I strongly recommend that you reconsider. The boys and girls in orange knock spots off them on every single measure.

Ryanair have a narrower seat but a better seat pitch than Easyjet. The wait before takeoff is understandable because if you missed your slot you could have been waiting god knows how long (As far as the pilot knew it was good to go, complain about air traffic control and this wasn't down to the airline). The wait on your arrival was probably down to the airports handling agents. The rest of it I would say if you can find someone cheaper who provide better service then use them and why didn't you?

My sister works for Easyjet so I have to say they are better, ha ha.

P.S. I have sat for an hour on an Easyjet flight before leaving, it happens all the time with all airlines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though pitch isn't everything. Ryanair (on their older aircraft) use quite a thick seat, so to me legroom on easyJet feels more generous.

 

[fowler9]

Though pitch isn't everything. Ryanair (on their older aircraft) use quite a thick seat, so to me legroom on easyJet feels more generous.

It is all purely subjective. Some people prefer the bone hard bin lids on modern trains. Same for planes.

 

[gsnedders]

Ryanair have a narrower seat but a better seat pitch than Easyjet.

And the narrower seats are because 737s fuselages are narrower than A320s.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Personally I think it's a stupid system, pointlessly confusing and awkward, and that a policy of one free item of hold luggage is vastly more sensible. I fear it may take the airlines being forced to sort this out.

It is just so daft that we have ended up with airlines having massive holds with no bags in them, then people fighting and squashing to fit their bags into the small locker space available. Many people have these big metal bags which are within 1mm tolerance of the airlines' maximum sizes and planes are simply not big enough for them.

Allowing a small bag for free then giving people the choice to pay for a large cabin bag or full size suitcase makes a lot more sense, since most people just go for the suitcase.

 

[Jetlagged]

Though pitch isn't everything. Ryanair (on their older aircraft) use quite a thick seat, so to me legroom on easyJet feels more generous.

These two certainly couldn't complain about legroom!

https://goo.gl/h4kzm5

 

[Bald Rick]

Ryanair have a narrower seat but a better seat pitch than Easyjet. The wait before takeoff is understandable because if you missed your slot you could have been waiting god knows how long (As far as the pilot knew it was good to go, complain about air traffic control and this wasn't down to the airline). The wait on your arrival was probably down to the airports handling agents. The rest of it I would say if you can find someone cheaper who provide better service then use them and why didn't you?

My sister works for Easyjet so I have to say they are better, ha ha.

P.S. I have sat for an hour on an Easyjet flight before leaving, it happens all the time with all airlines.

I may not have explained well. The delay was announced not because of a missed slot* but because the weather was too bad to take off. No I'd never heard that excuse either, but that was what was given. Given that the weather was the same as when the plane landed, and all through the turn round, I find it hard to believe that the pilot (or ATC) suddenly decided it was too bad just when everyone was on board and belted up.

* it would have been impossible to miss the slot at the departure airport, as it was the only plane there! Of course it might have missed a slot at the arrival airport, however it's not an airport that is so busy that an hour slot delay is likely.

Re delay on arrival - the wait was due to French border control, but, frankly, I don't care. Being stood for up to an hour on a concrete apron with small children and no protection from the elements is just not acceptable.

FR are the only airline that flies to this particular airport from the UK on the day we needed to go. Hence me breaking the boycott. I would happily have spent twice as much to fly with someone else but the option wasn't there. Next time I go EZY and drive 2 hours that end.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

The wait on your arrival was probably down to the airports handling agents.

Re delay on arrival - the wait was due to French border control, but, frankly, I don't care. Being stood for up to an hour on a concrete apron with small children and no protection from the elements is just not acceptable.

Unfortunately Ryanair's policy of using small regional airports means that many are not designed for international operation and have the most limited facilities. I suspect Ryanair could invest in new infrastructure for the airport to make things better for their passengers but it is not in their ethos to do so.

Which airport was it?

 

[Techniquest]

I do want to know which route this was that Bald Rick had an issue with. He sure had a rough time, the experience he's detailed is rather unusual. I've never had or heard of such a bad journey with Ryanair. Quite frankly for £450 I would have found a holiday somewhere else. Especially as the end destination was in France!

I've not had the tea on Ryanair, but I love the coffee and very happy to pay £3 for it. Obviously I'd prefer to pay the High Street price for a cup of that size, around £2 on average, but when something's good you don't mind paying extra. However, I don't buy anything else normally. I still have never bought one of their scratchcards, even though I say every flight I will!

As for Ryanair being worse than easyJet, I won't comment as I love flying Ryanair. I've no issue with legroom or comfort on their planes, although I know one of my friends does as he has longer legs than I do. However we decided next time we fly Ryanair, we'll book aisle seats to maximise the room possible. Either that or pay the extra ching for the exit row, which I have yet to sample.

All this talk about flying has got me wanting to get in the air again, I have a fair while until my trip to Prague though! Unlike some, I'd happily jump straight onto a Ryanair flight too!

EDIT: AlterEgo, sounds like a good deal coming up!

 

[Bald Rick]

unfortunately ryanair's policy of using small regional airports means that many are not designed for international operation and have the most limited facilities. I suspect ryanair could invest in new infrastructure for the airport to make things better for their passengers but it is not in their ethos to do so.

Which airport was it?

Perpignan (PGF)

(Sorry about the code earlier, I was a bit more dozy than normal this morning. I blame Ryanair jet lag).

 

[Techniquest]

It was PGF

Not all of us know airport codes...

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not all of us know airport codes...

Perpignan

 

[Techniquest]

Perpignan

Thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Not all of us know airport codes...

All of us have Google though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is just so daft that we have ended up with airlines having massive holds with no bags in them, then people fighting and squashing to fit their bags into the small locker space available. Many people have these big metal bags which are within 1mm tolerance of the airlines' maximum sizes and planes are simply not big enough for them.

Agree. However...

Allowing a small bag for free then giving people the choice to pay for a large cabin bag or full size suitcase makes a lot more sense, since most people just go for the suitcase.

If you made one hold bag free that would also be the case, and it wouldn't be such nickle-and-diming. (Unless you're doing a day or one night trip the small bag is not sufficient for a lot).

 

[Techniquest]

All of us have Google though.

Yes but it is only polite to consider others! Post three-letter codes without defining them in other parts of the forum, especially unusual ones, and you can expect to get told off for it.

LGW and LHR, for example, I'm sure all of us who participate in this thread will know are London Gatwick and London Heathrow. I never would have guessed what PGF is though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

All of us have Google though.

Posting acronyms and codes without explaining them is against the forum rules. Do it with a station code and you'll get told off.

As for the age old debate between Ryanair and Easy Jet, it really depends on the day. The brand new Ryanair 737s are nice. The old A319s on Easy Jet are terrible; the 319 I had down to Bristol the other month was from the land that time forgot. And vice versa; some of the old 737s are awful. I can't comment on the tea as tea on transport is always terrible (I blame the "tastes like real snot" milk substitute they use) but the coffee is decent.

I'm not sure you can blame Ryanair for French border guards being assholes, though sometimes it is a consequence of flying to the small regional airports. The border control at Newcastle isn't much better

But yeah. If you've paid £450 then you expect more. I've always been happy with Ryanair but the most I've ever paid is about £100 return, London-Derry. I'm normally only on a yellow plane when the fare's a tenner each way.

 

[Bald Rick]

Posting acronyms and codes without explaining them is against the forum rules. Do it with a station code and you'll get told off.

I'm not sure you can blame Ryanair for French border guards being assholes, though sometimes it is a consequence of flying to the small regional airports. The border control at Newcastle isn't much better.

TLA (three letter acronym ) edited on earlier post. Apologies.

I'm not sure French border control were being difficult. I think the issue is that 60% of all international arrivals that day were scheduled to arrive within 60 minutes of each other, which rather overwhelmed them.

On this forum we forever have complaints about the railway not being 'joined up'. Well this is an example of the air industry not being joined up. It can't be beyond the capabilities of the parties involved to either reschedule the flight(s) to spread them out a little, or put up a simple shelter to protect passengers from the elements. I pay my money to get me from check in to arrivals hall, not tarmac to tarmac.

I've flown internationally to and from plenty of other small regional airports across Europe with the orange team, Flybe, and BA. Never been a problem.

Anyway, 'nuff said, Boycott reinstated.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

A lot of smaller airports seem to have flights carefully scheduled about an hour apart. Noticed this in recent flights from Kaunas and from Shiraz.

Iceland was worst for this, every single Iceland air flight scheduled to depart in about a 60 minute interval at around 6am, meaning dozens of flights worth of passengers all cramming into the 'under construction' check in and security desks. Then a six hour gap until the next departure.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well this is an example of the air industry not being joined up.

Airports do this a lot though, because if you have all your flights land at the same time you don't need to pay for border guards for the whole day. They can come and go a few hours later. My local airport Newcastle do this, most of the charter airlines all land within an hour of each other, all about 1am. It can take more than an hour to get through passport control, which is particularly fun at one o'clock in the morning.

But I don't blame you for reinstating the boycott...

 

[fowler9]

I may not have explained well. The delay was announced not because of a missed slot* but because the weather was too bad to take off. No I'd never heard that excuse either, but that was what was given. Given that the weather was the same as when the plane landed, and all through the turn round, I find it hard to believe that the pilot (or ATC) suddenly decided it was too bad just when everyone was on board and belted up.

* it would have been impossible to miss the slot at the departure airport, as it was the only plane there! Of course it might have missed a slot at the arrival airport, however it's not an airport that is so busy that an hour slot delay is likely.

Re delay on arrival - the wait was due to French border control, but, frankly, I don't care. Being stood for up to an hour on a concrete apron with small children and no protection from the elements is just not acceptable.

FR are the only airline that flies to this particular airport from the UK on the day we needed to go. Hence me breaking the boycott. I would happily have spent twice as much to fly with someone else but the option wasn't there. Next time I go EZY and drive 2 hours that end.

The thing you have to realise with departure slots is it isn't just down to the airport you depart from. Loads of Easyjet flights have been delayed on he ground at Liverpool recently and stuck fully loaded because of congestion at Amsterdam before the plane even left. I was delayed at Bergamo a few years back on Ryanair not because the plane couldn't get of the runway but because slots were restricted across Europe because of thunder storms. When we did get off the ground I saw some amazing views of thunder storms over the Alps at night.

If you miss your departure slot (Even though there are no other planes waiting to leave your departure airport) it can have a big impact. Our slot wasn't just getting off the ground at Bergamo, it was getting across European airspace when certain parts were closed.

 

[sheff1]

Back before I instigated my own Ryanair boycott, the inbound plane landed late and then when passengers were boarding the steward was literally pushing people down the aisle and screaming "take your seats immediately otherwise we will lose our departure slot". As this was a late evening flight, and plenty of the punters had been imbibing whilst waiting for the plane, I was very surprised a square go didn't develop. If it had, no doubt the subsequent headline would have been disruptive passenger rather than disruptive cabin crew.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back before I instigated my own Ryanair boycott, the inbound plane landed late and then when passengers were boarding the steward was literally pushing people down the aisle and screaming "take your seats immediately otherwise we will lose our departure slot". As this was a late evening flight, and plenty of the punters had been imbibing whilst waiting for the plane, I was very surprised a square go didn't develop. If it had, no doubt the subsequent headline would have been disruptive passenger rather than disruptive cabin crew.

One thing quite educational is flying from a small airport on Ryanair on a "one in, one out" basis. You'll notice in such cases that the inbound flight is often scheduled to arrive after the same aircraft already departed back to the origin.

Naughty.

 

[WestCoast]

Speaking of small airports and arsey staff is reminding me of a recent trip. For some bizarre reason our travel department at work booked me Amsterdam to Manchester via Southampton on Flybe after visiting the Leiden office. Not sure if Southampton sees many connecting passengers, but me asking the UKBA officer if there was a connections channel evoked a very sarky response about bags and then a non-friendly grilling of a who-what-why-when of the trip. Having said that, Southampton does seem a nice and quirky little airport, especially if you like Q400s, ATRs and Embraers! Enjoyed watching the action from the pub, although wasn't too happy about the 90 mins delay on the flight to Manchester!

 

[berneyarms]

One thing quite educational is flying from a small airport on Ryanair on a "one in, one out" basis. You'll notice in such cases that the inbound flight is often scheduled to arrive after the same aircraft already departed back to the origin.

Naughty.

Can you provide a specific example of this?

Ryanair have a standard 25 minute turnaround in their schedules between their inbound and outbound flights so I don't see where this could happen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can you provide a specific example of this?

Ryanair have a standard 25 minute turnaround in their schedules between their inbound and outbound flights so I don't see where this could happen.

The place I noticed it was Luebeck some years ago, but I have heard of it elsewhere.

I'm sure the "WTT" allowed 25 minutes, but I read it was a ruse to ensure at least one of the two flights was "on time".

 

[berneyarms]

The place I noticed it was Luebeck some years ago, but I have heard of it elsewhere.

I'm sure the "WTT" allowed 25 minutes, but I read it was a ruse to ensure at least one of the two flights was "on time".

The airline industry doesn't tend to have differing public and internal timetables, and as such recovery time is built into the public gate to gate schedules, hence I find this a bit difficult to believe.

I'd need to see actual evidence of this to be honest as it flies in the face of industry norms.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The airline industry doesn't tend to have differing public and internal timetables, and as such recovery time is built into the public gate to gate schedules

I don't know if they still do it, but I've noticed it at both Luebeck and Memmingen where the "departure time" for the outgoing flight was before the scheduled arrival time of the incoming flight. I always assumed it was a way of ensuring that the plane didn't miss its landing slot back at Stansted.

They might not still do it, Ryanair haven't flown to Luebeck for years now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, now you mention it I think I saw it at Memmingen as well. I don't however think they do it any more.

It's Ryanair, they don't adhere to industry norms. Within the safety rules, they do what they like.