Just something I’ve always wondered. On the railway, Bank Holiday services are normally equivalent to Saturday services or sometimes, Monday-Friday ones. With shops having reduced hours, and nearly all bus services having a Sunday service, why does the railway have such a good service on Bank Holidays?
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Bank Holiday services?
- Thread starter mrd269697
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Cos many trains don't end up where they started on a weekday. Only if you run a full weeks service does it resolve itself. Some trains are stabled away from depots but have to go to a main depot every 2-3 days. Buses tend to go back to their depot each night these days.
317 forever
Established Member
I think it was stated as being more cost-effective than changing the whole schedule for the day, even if it means more staff and stock needed.
In the South East, traditionally the winter Bank Holidays did have a service closer to a Sunday service with a Saturday-type service in the Spring / Summer but over the years it has moved to being closer to a Saturday service. It fits better with the service running on the long distance operators.
Philip
On Moderation
I know it comes down to diagrams but I don't see the logic in continuing to run a booked double set on a bank holiday when the time it operates is very quiet on a bank holiday, ie. an 8am arrival into a city centre station.
Going back to the 70s, the SR operated a Sunday timetable with a few extras and weekday last trains - but the timetable wasn't that different anyway.
Depends what it will be like later in the day though.
OTOH it has always surprised me that WY Metro insist(ed) on running their SX peak extras on Saturdays and public holidays.
If you know that all services on a given diagram will be quiet, it's possible to destrengthen it if it's self-contained (e.g. start and finish the day at depot A) or if there are different diagrams which cancel each other out (e.g. two pairs, one of which starts at depot A and finishes at depot B, and vice versa).
But this is rarely the case; "up norf" most diagrams which have double sets attach or detach somewhere during the day to get sets into the right places. Or diagrams have units moving from place to place as part of a maintenance cycle, and hence you don't want to disturb that.
In most cases there probably is a solution out there, but the amount of work required to come up with the answer doesn't justify the (relatively) small saving in diesel/electricity/miles etc.
Looks like EMR has done this today. Most of the Intercity services this morning were showing as 5 or 7 coaches and this afternoon all are now 7, 9 or 10 coaches. Probably helps that there is engineering work so the timetable and diagrams had to be re done.
Saw some very busy 9-10 car trains this afternoon and full and standing 5 cars. That being said "double sets" are already running at 8am on a weekday 'very quiet' because of Covid so there's no huge difference.
With Christmas Day 2021 falling on a Saturday, we have had four days in a row with few or no bus services, then three in a row over New Year. Buses on New Year's Day are a rarity unless they are tendered by the local transport authority and, with the budget cuts they have suffered, Bank Holiday services will be a low priority, yet many shops and most leisure/tourist destinations are open. I was always surprised that the railways ran a normal service on these days but now understand the point about stock workings. Then there's the treatment of Good Friday in different parts of the country but that's a subject in itself!
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High Dyke
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Another factor may be that 'regular' train services are planned / scheduled in advance. Whilst there are the known Bank Holidays it is far easier to plan the trains to run throughout the timetable period and then make short-term plan changes to amend a particular day.
Capvermell
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From Dorking to Horsham Bank Holiday services outside the Christmas period in recent years have run to a Saturday timetable given that a Sunday timetable between Dorking and Horsham = no service but that due to whatever passes for thought processes with Southern's timetable planning team they seem to think people are more likely to travel on the Easter Spring and August Bank Holiday Fridays and Mondays than on a Sunday. This doesn't actually make sense and if people are making use of an hourly daytime only service from Dorking to Horsham on a Bank Holiday they would clearly also do so on a Sunday. But I presume this is a general pattern by Southern to operate Saturday services on Bank Holidays on those lines that don't have a Sunday service at all.
But anyway being totally reliant on the rail services as I am at the moment I discovered to my cost that not only does Southern not operate train services on Christmas Day and Boxing Day between Dorking and Horsham as you would expect (there being no train services anywhere other than Gatwick and Stansted Aiports) but also not on New Years Day when practically all other train lines have a Sunday or a Saturday service.
However as Southern has not run Meet The Manager sessions (not even online as they so easily could have done) since March 2020 it seems that Southern/GoVia senior management will never ever have to account to its customers for the vagaries and inconsistencies of its policies regarding which Bank Holiday services it does and does not choose to operate...............
Or is this inconsistency regarding New Year's Day vs the Easter, Spring and August Bank Holidays part of its franchise agreement with the DfT?
But anyway being totally reliant on the rail services as I am at the moment I discovered to my cost that not only does Southern not operate train services on Christmas Day and Boxing Day between Dorking and Horsham as you would expect (there being no train services anywhere other than Gatwick and Stansted Aiports) but also not on New Years Day when practically all other train lines have a Sunday or a Saturday service.
However as Southern has not run Meet The Manager sessions (not even online as they so easily could have done) since March 2020 it seems that Southern/GoVia senior management will never ever have to account to its customers for the vagaries and inconsistencies of its policies regarding which Bank Holiday services it does and does not choose to operate...............
Or is this inconsistency regarding New Year's Day vs the Easter, Spring and August Bank Holidays part of its franchise agreement with the DfT?
I think you will find that New Year's Day (I assume you mean 3 Jan?) on GTR is normally a Sunday service on all routes. This year there are some exceptions in the suburban area as a result of the Victoria engineering work.
SE seem to have run a Saturday service, so it may be that GTR are the last survivor of the old (London area) practice.
Capvermell
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No I mean that Southern didn't run any services at all from Dorking to Horsham on New Year's Day itself, 1st January as was also the case on Saturday 25th December (Christmas Day) even though they did run a Saturday or Sunday timetable service on 1st January on practically all of their other lines. On Bank Holiday Monday 3rd January they did run a Saturday service timetable (as would expected for an actual Bank Holiday day) from Dorking to Horsham but from 4th Jan to 7th Jan they are also still only running a Saturday service only timetable (no evening trains at all) for no apparent explained reason given that these are normal weekday evening service days outside the Christmas period.
I presume their actual reason for cutting out our evening trains (if they ever justify their actions at all given that their Stalinist call centre at Teleperformance always refuses to offer any explanation at all for such arbitrary and random cuts) for axing our services down to a Saturday service all week this week is perhaps due to London Victoria still being closed so not having enough train paths and/or platform service for a weekday service at London Victoria except of course that they do seem to have room for our trains in the actual morning and evening peak hour period when they will be busiest. Alternatively it is due to an alleged shortage of train crews due to Omicron but if so why not cut out one of the two Southern trains an hour to London Bridge from Horsham via Gatwick (that normally go to London Victoria) given that there are also two further Thameslink trains an hour running to London Bridge from Horsham on top. Therefore self evidently our evening train services should not have been the sacrificial lamb if lack of platform space at London Bridge for trains normally going to London Victoria was the actual problem here, even though it almost certainly wasn't and and lack of train crews was probably the actual problem (except that why did London Bridge need two additional services an hour from Horsham on top of the two it already gets on the Thameslink service).
Bottom line is Dorking to Horsham is being treated like a Cinderella Service that can be cut out on the least excuse by one or more of GT Railway's train planners or schedulers.
SWR still run a Sunday service on New Year's Day.
Apologies - but the thread was about Bank Holidays
NYD falling on a Saturday is peculiar, with significant numbers of shops closed, but that doesn't explain the timetabling.
Class 466
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Southeastern ran a Sunday service on NYD which is specified in the Franchise Agreement, every other BH is a Saturday service. Pre 2014 - Southeastern used to run a Sunday Service on every bank holiday (pretty much every other operator was on a Saturday timetable at this point)
To give an example (or two) I used to diagram the services into Marylebone when the first Up train from Banbury was at around 0703, formed by the unit off the 0521 from Marylebone. Every bank holiday the 0521 was cancelled, but all it achieved was us having to time a Marylebone-Banbury EDMU in pretty much the same path to work the 0703.
And I'd spend hours messing around with the "Town Car" at Stourbridge because certain connections were no longer required at the Junction. But as often as not the return working was still required so unit and traincrew diagrams would be extensively rewritten for no effective purpose.
Still, kept us in work!
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