CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[sd0733]

Three car 197 on Friday Holyhead to Llanelli (1109 out of Bangor) lost 36 minutes at Chester, up to 55 by Cardiff and seemingly cancelled beyond Swansea. Seems there was an engine fault - is this a common problem? There didn’t seem to be any trouble until the reversal at Chester.

There seems to be a lot of sets with engines out at the moment. Lots of 3 cars with engines out or idling and quite a few 2s with issues too that mean they have to remain coupled.

Does the 2130 form from a previous arrival splitting? I think it might?

Yes, all of the departures 1930-2230 are booked to divide at Manchester. So the 2130 departure would have split so wouldn't have gone up by itself.

 

[185143]

Does the 2130 form from a previous arrival splitting? I think it might? RTT shows 2 x 2 car 197s on the 21:15 arrival on Wednesday (for example): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P64627/2024-04-10/detailed#allox_id=3

Obviously the implication otherwise is that the same single 153 worked the inward journey to Manchester

I think it does now, but almost certain it didn't at the time.

It definitely departed Manchester as a single 153(303). That I can 100% confirm. The bit I don't know is wether it worked all the way from Cardiff or wether it took over from Shrewsbury or something.

Unfortunately there is a 319 blocking the view of the 153 on the blocks so can't say for certain it came on it's own

 

[Topological]

I think it does now, but didn't at the time.

It definitely arrived and departed Manchester as a single 153(303). That I can 100% confirm. The bit I don't know is wether it worked all the way from Cardiff or wether it took over from Shrewsbury or something.

Thank you, so now there is photographic proof single 153s have made it TO Manchester.

I find it baffling that TfW send 2 cars to Manchester, but 1... Even if you just take the nightlife of Manchester and the demand that creates there is surely more need for seats than a single 153 (with accessible toilet modification) provides.

I suspect TfW are underselling Cardiff a bit if it is ok for a single 153 on that late departure too

 

[Anonymous10]

Thank you, so now there is photographic proof single 153s have made it TO Manchester.

I find it baffling that TfW send 2 cars to Manchester, but 1... Even if you just take the nightlife of Manchester and the demand that creates there is surely more need for seats than a single 153 (with accessible toilet modification) provides.

I suspect TfW are underselling Cardiff a bit if it is ok for a single 153 on that late departure too

How do we know if wasn't split off another earlier service?

 

[Topological]

How do we know if wasn't split off another earlier service?

The post says:

I think it does now, but almost certain it didn't at the time.

It definitely departed Manchester as a single 153(303). That I can 100% confirm. The bit I don't know is wether it worked all the way from Cardiff or wether it took over from Shrewsbury or something.

Unfortunately there is a 319 blocking the view of the 153 on the blocks so can't say for certain it came on it's own

You can see the edit by comparing this version of the post with the one I quoted earlier. I can see the words "arrived and" have been deleted from the second paragraph. However, the sentence "The bit I don't know..." only makes sense if the words "arrived and" had not been deleted.

I am sure 185143 will edit and leave my post looking silly again, but I am happy that when I made the post at 16:23 the wording from someone who photographed the train was enough for me to reach my conclusion.

There is also a post from 185143 in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfw-overcrowding.230403/page-4

In which a single 153 TO Manchester is confirmed as having run in Lockdown. That should not count really.

What is depressing is that this is all about 1 carriage trains versus 2 carriage trains. The trains should be much longer between two major cities on a route that passes many big railway interchanges.

TfW promised 5 car by now, so it tells us a lot about the problems with 197s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ultimately the costs will all be paid by TfW via the leasing charges.

There's the intermediary, the Rosco, which finances the trains.
There will be contracts CAF-Rosco and Rosco-TfW. CAF also does the fleet maintenance, which will be another set of contracts.
I have never really understood who bears the cost of late delivery/acceptance, but for 197s it must be a lot of money for someone to find.
Probably CAF get some portion of the price on delivery and the balance on acceptance, which is when leasing kick in.
TfW also have to pay continuing leasing charges on the fleets which were supposed to be cascaded by now - 175s have gone but the 158s are still there.

 

[Lurcheroo]

but the 158s are still there

I’ve posted a few times about lots of internal talk of getting the 197’s on the Cambrian this year (which I think is near impossible at this point) and I think it entirely comes down to the fact that TFW don’t want to be paying the 158 lease costs any more.

Speaking of, 197003 and 197024 are in Machynlleth at the moment. I assume they’re doing the last round of testing.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

197115 is the first 197 in service on the Ebbw Vale line today starting with the 1002 ex Cardiff.

 

[childwallblues]

As we passed LNWR Crewe yesterday headiing to Derby 197117 was seen on the depot.

 

[BillStampy]

197115 is the first 197 in service on the Ebbw Vale line today starting with the 1002 ex Cardiff.

It's either an allocation issue, as the Carmarthen service in the morning is pathed to form Ebbw Vale and every time it's been a 197 it's been swapped

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It's either an allocation issue, as the Carmarthen service in the morning is pathed to form Ebbw Vale and every time it's been a 197 it's been swapped

No because Ebbw Vale is permitted for 197s now.

 

[Dai Corner]

197115 at Pye Corner on the delayed 1002 Cardiff Central to Ebbw Vale Town. Reported to be late from the depot.

Edit: Guard says it is the first in passenger service on the branch and is booked a 150.

 

[Topological]

I was about to ask why meanwhile there were a lot of 2-car on the Manchesters, but it appears there was only one 2-car 197 booked onto Manchester trains today.

Not all the Mk4 are running, but seems TfW found 3-cars to replace the diagrams without Mk4 (with the exception mentioned)

Further noted that said 197/0 has had to turn around at Crewe almost an hour late due to "a problem with the traction equipment"

 

[vicbury]

I was about to ask why meanwhile there were a lot of 2-car on the Manchesters, but it appears there was only one 2-car 197 booked onto Manchester trains today.

Not all the Mk4 are running, but seems TfW found 3-cars to replace the diagrams without Mk4 (with the exception mentioned)

Further noted that said 197/0 has had to turn around at Crewe almost an hour late due to "a problem with the traction equipment"

I'm guessing these are all software / sensor issues that will be ironed out rather than mechanical failures?

Have to say I am very much enjoying the 197s on my route (Cardiff to Cheltenham). In the two years I've lived in Lydney we have routinely had 170s, 158s, 150s, 153s, 175s and now 197s. I'll miss the 197s when they move on as they really are excellent, better than anything else except perhaps the 175s.

 

[BillStampy]

No because Ebbw Vale is permitted for 197s now.

I see that now! How good! Ebbw Vale also needs these, hope it holds up!

 

[Topological]

197/1 on the 05:39 Cardiff to Manchester, absolutely nothing wrong with this. Perfectly fine for a 3-hour journey.

Looking forward to there being 5 cars on these.

 

[Diedinium]

I was about to ask why meanwhile there were a lot of 2-car on the Manchesters, but it appears there was only one 2-car 197 booked onto Manchester trains today.

Not all the Mk4 are running, but seems TfW found 3-cars to replace the diagrams without Mk4 (with the exception mentioned)

Further noted that said 197/0 has had to turn around at Crewe almost an hour late due to "a problem with the traction equipment"

I was going to be driving that one turned around at Crewe. There was nothing wrong with it.

What happened was it was delayed by 55 mins because of a slow charter train that had broke down at Hereford, so was cancelled at Crewe as it was running too late to send to Manchester.

Not sure why they picked that delay code.

 

[Dai Corner]

I was going to be driving that one turned around at Crewe. There was nothing wrong with it.

What happened was it was delayed by 55 mins because of a slow charter train that had broke down at Hereford, so was cancelled at Crewe as it was running too late to send to Manchester.

Not sure why they picked that delay code.

I suppose it was a problem with traction equipment, just not that on that unit!

 

[Envoy]

The Class 231 FLIRT trains that you will get eventually are nice but the seats are terrible - hard, too upright and apart form those on the bogies - too low.

 

[Topological]

I was going to be driving that one turned around at Crewe. There was nothing wrong with it.

What happened was it was delayed by 55 mins because of a slow charter train that had broke down at Hereford, so was cancelled at Crewe as it was running too late to send to Manchester.

Not sure why they picked that delay code.

Thank you, glad it was not the 197

If I were TfW I would definitely choose a delay code that did not imply a problem with a TfW train, especially given that there have been one or two issues recently.

It is always good to have the information behind the codes, much appreciated.

 

[MP393]

Thank you, glad it was not the 197

If I were TfW I would definitely choose a delay code that did not imply a problem with a TfW train, especially given that there have been one or two issues recently.

It is always good to have the information behind the codes, much appreciated.

The delay code goes down to whatever caused the original delay, which in this case a fault with a train, just the one in-front of it. The actual delay/cancellation minutes hasn’t gone down to TfW, it’s just the way that RTT displays the information in an easy to read way that may look like it’s the units fault!

 

[AdamWW]

The Class 231 FLIRT trains that you will get eventually are nice but the seats are terrible - hard, too upright and apart form those on the bogies - too low.

That's subjective of course; I find them comfortable and no harder than anything else inflicted on us on any new UK train.

 

[Delta558]

Pembroke Dock route proving is planned for this coming Sunday. Should be 4 cars, apparently.

 

[Western 52]

Pembroke Dock route proving is planned for this coming Sunday. Should be 4 cars, apparently.

That's good to see. The paths are in RTT, and seems some will use platform 3 at Whitland.

 

[childwallblues]

The Class 231 FLIRT trains that you will get eventually are nice but the seats are terrible - hard, too upright and apart form those on the bogies - too low.

Welcome to the Stadler seats.

 

[The_Train]

The Class 231 FLIRT trains that you will get eventually are nice but the seats are terrible - hard, too upright and apart form those on the bogies - too low.

This could be repeated for the vast majority of new UK trains

 

[childwallblues]

This could be repeated for the vast majority of new UK trains

Having now extensively travelled on the 777s when I come down to South Wales to ride the 231s I will feel quite at home.

 

[BenBracken]

Have there been any updates on 197s on the Pembroke Dock line? TfW said ‘the summer’ so surely proving runs have taken place by now?

 

[Jez]

Last I heard about Pembroke was they were still doing testing and proving runs. So hopefully soon.

I guess it could all depend on when the rest of the 3 cars come into service as they could replace 2 cars on other routes to put the 2 cars on Pembroke services

 

[sd0733]

Have there been any updates on 197s on the Pembroke Dock line? TfW said ‘the summer’ so surely proving runs have taken place by now?

There was an update by @Delta558 5 posts ago about the proving runs in post 6563

These are the paths:

Realtime Trains | 3Z80 0928 Cardiff Canton Sidings to Pembroke Dock | 21/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 3Z80 0928 departure from Cardiff Canton Sidings to Pembroke Dock on 21/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Z81 1302 Pembroke Dock to Whitland | 21/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 3Z81 1302 departure from Pembroke Dock to Whitland on 21/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Z82 1403 Whitland to Pembroke Dock | 21/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 3Z82 1403 departure from Whitland to Pembroke Dock on 21/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3Z83 1512 Pembroke Dock to Cardiff Canton Sidings | 21/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 3Z83 1512 departure from Pembroke Dock to Cardiff Canton Sidings on 21/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk