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CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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My journey to Cardiff today, 1012 to Cardiff Central was 4 cars - 197017/197004. Although about 20 minutes late arriving into Cardiff I must say 4 carriages was most welcome as there was a fairly healthy loading of passengers although nowhere near full with plenty of spare tables and double seats. To think this service will be terminated at Carmarthen (starts at Fishguard) from December.
It is first 4 car 197 ive been on since October according to my records. Its a real shame there arent 4 (or 5) cars more often this side of Cardiff.
I sat over the bogies for part of the journey and it was a bit rough but not too bad really. But I do get what people say about the ride quality compared to a 175 or MK4. Although to be fair I think we were late and following a stopper so it was very slow between Bridgend and Cardiff and it may not have been so noticeable. Worse at full speed I think.
30 minutes from Cardiff Central to Port Talbot on the return journey (3 car 197) that is amazing timing.... it could be timed even less than that as it waited for time a few minutes at Bridgend too.
It is first 4 car 197 ive been on since October according to my records. Its a real shame there arent 4 (or 5) cars more often this side of Cardiff.
I sat over the bogies for part of the journey and it was a bit rough but not too bad really. But I do get what people say about the ride quality compared to a 175 or MK4. Although to be fair I think we were late and following a stopper so it was very slow between Bridgend and Cardiff and it may not have been so noticeable. Worse at full speed I think.
30 minutes from Cardiff Central to Port Talbot on the return journey (3 car 197) that is amazing timing.... it could be timed even less than that as it waited for time a few minutes at Bridgend too.
Warm weather? It's not even 20 degrees here. You barely need air con, just suck in cooler air from outside.
Well it's not even doing that! The air con in my car kicks in from around 16 degrees (internal temp set to 20.5) when it's sunny, tin cans heat up quickly.
Anonymous10
Established Member
I note 197115 currently has 2 leather head rests missing, hopefully this isn't a common issue through the fleet or it could start to in time become costly.
I was on 197115 yesterday and noticed 1 missing in standard plus but not the 2nd. Hopefuilly this isnt going to be an issue!
I mentioned this in the MK4 thread but might as well ask here as its to do with 197s. Do we know how many diagrams we currently have and how many short we are today of 197s? I ask as I noticed a 158 on one diagram plus it appears others are short formed?
There were 37 diagrams today, 24 2 car and 13 3 car, most look to be as booked. Only ones that weren't were 158839 and 197049 both 2 cars covering 3 car diagrams but 197105/107/120 all 3 cars have been at least part covering 2 car diagrams so in theory there were 2 197 vehicles more than booked in service.
Thanks for the info. I noticed on RTT that the 158 i saw was swapped for a 3 car 197 for the Cardiff-Manchester part of the journey. Very good indeed when you consider how many Sprinters there used to be even 6 months ago.
Ironically its still on a 3 car Diagram now on the Ebbw but it's the least bad option.
Yes it's pretty rare now other than the booked ones on Sundays to get any 15x upto Manchester. Things have changed to such a point that the only booked 2 car to Manchester now on a weekday is the 05:37 from Cardiff, everything else is booked e or more. Coming back is slightly different with the two that split.
The only Manchester not booked 197 or Mk4 now are:
Saturday- 20:05 Cardiff to Manchester (2x153)
Sunday-
08:38 Swansea to Manchester (3x153) and collects a 158 for the 13:30 return so 5 coaches.
09:33 Swansea to Manchester/14:30 Manchester to Milford Haven (4x153)
15:31 Milford Haven to Manchester/22:30 to Crewe (3x158)
So at least any booked 15x have plenty of capacity
MP393
Member
Distinct lack of 150s too as the mileage run down starts to take action!
Yes definitely, was always a lot on Sundays booked until a couple of weeks back, a high mileage Manchester certainly seems one to be avoided keeping mileage down!
Topological
Member
Is that really 4 x 153?
3 x 158 is impressive too, a 6-car would be a definite luxury.
Be nice if we were talking about 3+2 for the diagrams rather than 3 or 2, but definitely progress.
It's run a couple of times as the 4 153s yes, think last week Two were replaced by a 158 but it has been a 4 car 153 diagram.
Hopefully the Acceptance speeds up again soon, there seemed a spate now its slowed right down again to give enough for the 5 cars, there'll need to be a sign off run too but believe all the tests were successful so it should really be a formality getting the 3+2 formations approved.
Jamesrob637
Established Member
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Four weeks until the June timetable change. Hopefully then.
Believe the plan for the proving run is still for before the timetable change, unit acceptance though depends how long it takes to get each unit through its mileage and through all the checks so is much more difficult to have a timescale on.
Topological
Member
That would be good.
One thing about the 05:37 from Cardiff being booked 2-car is that presumably that means the 09:30 south from Manchester is also a 2-car.
The 05:37 became my train of choice of late, it gets busy at 2-car but the time it was 3-car it was very comfortable. I just thought the 09:30 back south would be a busier train and need to have more carriages.
craigybagel
Established Member
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- 25 Oct 2012
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These are all booked 197 from the June TT, including the set that stables overnight at Piccadilly on a Saturday into Sunday.
This is booked for a single 158 from June, but from experience that's normally more than enough capacity for it
It seems to be actually booked a 4 for the remainder of this week, between Cardiff and Crewe, 2 then going on to form the 10:05 Llandudno. Not sure how permanent that is.
In my experience the 09:30 from Manchester isn't a hugely busy train and can manage with a 2 car outside of events or disruption.
Excellent, 1 158 a week with the rest 197 or Mk4 will be a good step forward.
Very interesting.
I didnt realise the 1531 ex Milford was booked for 3 x 158. Its been a single 158 when ive seen it.
Thats a really big change as the 1330 and 1430 have been booked Sprinters for as far back as I remember. Also the 158 at Piccadilly on a Saturday night into Sunday has been happening since at least 2010, probably a lot longer than that.
I assume the 1 remaining 158 is so the train crews can remain competent on them as they could be required to cover until they finally leave TFW. I believe there is also a Cardiff-Holyhead diagram also booked for this daily for this purpose.
That was for the Manchester bit, looking more deeply its more complex, seems to run from Milford as a single 158 to Swansea where a 150 attaches then detaches at Cardiff then the final 2 158s attach at Shrewsbury through to Manchester. As @craigybagel says though it's a single 158 from June so rather simpler!
Yes ive noticed a pair of 153s or if available a 158 substitute now on the rare occasions there isnt a 197 available. It is probably easier to use these as 158s are used for Cambrian/North Wales and 153s for HOWL/Crewe local so are easier to swap in and out of diagrams than 150s are now.
AH that explains when ive seen it its mostly been a single 158 or occasionally seen it as 158/150 pairing!
The 1430 ex Manchester on a Sunday splits at Whitland and depending what the combination of Sprinters are usually a single 153 goes to Pembroke Dock and the rest to Milford Haven. Is this an indication that from June TT 197s could go to Pembroke Dock in passenger service or will it simply be a Milford service with a Sprinter running a Carmarthen or Whitland to Pembroke shuttle?
It would be good if Pembroke Dock gets 197s for the Summer timetable.
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craigybagel
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I suspect it's more for unit balancing than anything else. The Crewe & Shrewsbury crews that work it North of Cardiff get plenty of 158 work on Birmingham services so don't need it. It might be of benefit for the Welsh based crew who bring it into Cardiff but then again 1 job on 1 day a week isn't really enough to maintain competency.
Still looks to be at least 2 units on arrival at Cardiff, but splits there to go north as a single unit.
It's still booked for 2 units leaving Manchester when it goes over to 197. No idea if it's still splitting at Whitland or not however.
Topological
Member
I am on it on Thursday, so will need to pay attention to which half is actually going to Manchester. That is a lot of thinking at that time of the morning
It seems odd to detach part at Crewe though, would it not block platform 6?
Still showing as the Whitland split from the new timetable but wouldn't read too much into it. Hopefully they'll be cleared but if not many different options could be short term planned in between now and then.
It'll be the front 2 which go to Manchester. The rear 2 Head off to the carriage shed for an hour before re-emerging into platform 11 for the 10:02 to Llandudno.
Topological
Member
Of course, the Manchester portion leaves Crewe at 08:30.
Thanks for confirming it is the front 2 too.
BenBracken
Member
Has the new timetable been launched yet? Whereabouts can you view it? Have there been any developments in getting 197s on the Pembroke Dock line?
Not seen the actual timetable but everything past 8th June appears in Journey planners and places like Real Time trains now, crew diagrams etc have been seen too although obviously they're not public!
Not sure on the Pembroke front I'm afraid, know from experience these things take a while after the runs to dot the Is and cross the Ts but not sure where they're upto with that one.
The morning Holyhead - Cardiff services are often 5-6 car. Either 2 units from Holyhead or some have attachments at Chester.