Caledonian Sleeper

[43096]

Rail staff are perfectly entitled to withdraw there labour after a ballot. This thread has already mentioned strikes on the Sleeper service..... several other threads on different topics have also mentioned this with other TOCs.

The customers are also entitled to withdraw their custom without any notice. Without customers, there's no need for staff.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The customers are also entitled to withdraw their custom without any notice. Without customers, there's no need for staff.

This is exactly what will happen. There's no political appetite to resolve a strike. There is political appetite to save money. Anyone voting to strike in the current climate is foolish.

 

[kylemore]

This is exactly what will happen. There's no political appetite to resolve a strike. There is political appetite to save money. Anyone voting to strike in the current climate is foolish.

"Foolish" is maybe a bit harsh - I would say they would certainly be well advised to "pause and consider".

 

[6Z09]

Given the hoops that have to be got through before any strike action, the Staff involved have every opportunity to consider their actions.
The Caledonian Sleeper has had strikes every year for the past few years!
Doesn't really give the impression of a company that is dealing with issues very well does it?

 

[najaB]

Doesn't really give the impression of a company that is dealing with issues very well does it?

That's Serco for you.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This is exactly what will happen. There's no political appetite to resolve a strike. There is political appetite to save money. Anyone voting to strike in the current climate is foolish.

"Foolish" is maybe a bit harsh - I would say they would certainly be well advised to "pause and consider".

Correct.

 

[Struner]

That's Serco for you.

Indeed

 

[LeylandLen]

Nearly 2300 Tues 1S25 Still at Euston , been told loss of power on allocated loco 92033, think 92018 to be used from Wembley . Not sure if 92033 can move under its own power .

 

[John Bishop]

1s25 left EUS 253L last night and 273L by Stafford. Loco issues I believe. Due into Inverness at 1141.

 

[nlogax]

Meanwhile from (also late running) 1S26 here's my tip of the week if you don't like wearing the amenity kit sleep mask but still want to nix those overly bright LED panel buttons.

 

[Tormod]

1s25 left EUS 253L last night and 273L by Stafford. Loco issues I believe. Due into Inverness at 1141.

Surprisingly, it appears to be going all the way. I assumed they'd stop it at EDB and let Scotrail pick up the passengers.

 

[John Bishop]

Surprisingly, it appears to be going all the way. I assumed they'd stop it at EDB and let Scotrail pick up the passengers.

Still not left Edinburgh yet. Would be surprised if it still has passengers on as it will be a slow run north.

 

[Tormod]

Still not left Edinburgh yet. Would be surprised if it still has passengers on as it will be a slow run north.

The CS Twitter account seems to have gone into hibernation: perhaps on the basis that no news is good news.

 

[185143]

1S25 has left Edinburgh according to Traksy.

 

[John Bishop]

1S25 has left Edinburgh according to Traksy.

Not long left, 307L. Now estimated arrival Inverness at 1316!

 

[92002]

Not long left, 307L. Now estimated arrival Inverness at 1316!

Inverness portion due 1315, Aberdeen due 1145 and Fort William cancelled. Aberdeen left Edinburgh 0850 and Inverness left at 0925. Obvious problems for crew out of hours.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Can't have been much fun for anyone waiting at Crewe until 0408.

According to RTT at least the Inverness portion was in Waverley for an hour and a half at a time when I would have thought there was limited platform space.
Any ideas why so long? If paths were difficult and the decision had been made to continue could there have been pressure to clear Waverley and push them on to a loop somewhere else instead?

Edit: Possible explanation from 92002 while I was posting.

 

[6Z09]

Can't have been much fun for anyone waiting at Crewe until 0408.

According to RTT at least the Inverness portion was in Waverley for an hour and a half at a time when I would have thought there was limited platform space.
Any ideas why so long? If paths were difficult and the decision had been made to continue could there have been pressure to clear Waverley and push them on to a loop somewhere else instead?

Edit: Possible explanation from 92002 while I was posting.

Multiple Locomotive moves and a congested Waverley are not a happy combination.
Having a look at Traksy would suggest the Fort William portion is still shunting two hours after arrival .

 

[SteveM70]

According to RTT the Fort Bill is still running, now 6 hours late

 

[92002]

According to RTT the Fort Bill is still running, now 6 hours late

Fort William portion left Edinburgh at 1050 and expected at Fort William now at 1540. Would imagine the problem was trying to find a new crew. The original crew being well out if hours.

 

[adrock1976]

Fort William portion left Edinburgh at 1050 and expected at Fort William now at 1540. Would imagine the problem was trying to find a new crew. The original crew being well out if hours.

This is one of the disadvantages I can think of now the Sleeper services have been split into their own franchise.

When it was integrated with Scotrail (and before that British Rail InterCity West Coast?), the drivers and guards in Fort William would work a day train to either Rannoch or Bridge of Orchy to meet the sleeper train. I believe Serco no longer do that now.

 

[Caleb2010]

Wouldn’t have thought it would have been too different using ScotRail guards- if the train you’re relieving is 5 or 6 hours late it is going to put you out of hours anyway- let’s face it, the whole duty wouldn’t have consisted of Fort William to Rannoch and return! Lots of small depots carry no spare staff either!

 

[SteveM70]

Sorry for veering off topic, but this has reminded me of a more general question - what happens in times of severe disruption when a driver runs out of hours whilst (say) waiting at a red signal in the middle of nowhere? Is he allowed to continue to the nearest practical swap over point or does a relief driver get ferried out to wherever the train is?

 

[paul1609]

This is one of the disadvantages I can think of now the Sleeper services have been split into their own franchise.

When it was integrated with Scotrail (and before that British Rail InterCity West Coast?), the drivers and guards in Fort William would work a day train to either Rannoch or Bridge of Orchy to meet the sleeper train. I believe Serco no longer do that now.

I rather think that since the train is now operated by GB railfreight it's likely to be a much more flexible arrangement and one of the advantages of a seperate franchise?

 

[XAM2175]

I rather think that since the train is now operated by GB railfreight it's likely to be a much more flexible arrangement and one of the advantages of a seperate franchise?

With respect to drivers, perhaps. The other onboard staff are directly employed by CS.

 

[D6130]

I rather think that since the train is now operated by GB railfreight it's likely to be a much more flexible arrangement and one of the advantages of a seperate franchise?

I suspect that the Helensburgh-based driver (....and train manager?), who relieve the Edinburgh-based crew at either Dalmuir or Helensburgh, will have received a phone call/text/email/ WhatsApp telling them to go back to bed and book on duty six hours later. Regarding the on-board staff - if it was the Fort William crew - they would still have to get home and would have a very long shift prior to their day off and - if it was the London crew, they would have a shorter than usual sleepover at the Fort. I'm not sure of their conditions of service, but I doubt that they would be entitled to the legally-required 12 hour break for drivers and guards.

 

[adrock1976]

I suspect that the Helensburgh-based driver (....and train manager?), who relieve the Edinburgh-based crew at either Dalmuir or Helensburgh, will have received a phone call/text/email/ WhatsApp telling them to go back to bed and book on duty six hours later. Regarding the on-board staff - if it was the Fort William crew - they would still have to get home and would have a very long shift prior to their day off and - if it was the London crew, they would have a shorter than usual sleepover at the Fort. I'm not sure of their conditions of service, but I doubt that they would be entitled to the legally-required 12 hour break for drivers and guards.

Regarding the 12 hours minimum between shifts, is this a separate thing to the European Working Time Directive in that there has to be a minimum of 11 hours between shifts?

 

[MrEd]

I suspect that the Helensburgh-based driver (....and train manager?), who relieve the Edinburgh-based crew at either Dalmuir or Helensburgh, will have received a phone call/text/email/ WhatsApp telling them to go back to bed and book on duty six hours later. Regarding the on-board staff - if it was the Fort William crew - they would still have to get home and would have a very long shift prior to their day off and - if it was the London crew, they would have a shorter than usual sleepover at the Fort. I'm not sure of their conditions of service, but I doubt that they would be entitled to the legally-required 12 hour break for drivers and guards.

The attendants (sleeper hosts and team leaders) are entitled to 9 hours’ rest between shifts, while 12 hours is the minimum for train managers as well as drivers.

In answer to your question, there is no way that it would be legal for the London-based hosts from last night to go all the way to Fort William (arriving 15.44) and work the 19.50 back from Fort William. I don’t know what they did about hosts after the train left Edinburgh at 10:46 - that is anyone’s guess and I am amazed that they ran it all the way (I’d have thought they’d have detrained everyone at Edinburgh, which was already at a sociable time, and put them on a bus which would have got them to Fort William for lunchtime with a fair wind). That’s if any rail replacement buses were available at short notice, of course.

I believe the Fort William portion is driven by a Central Belt-based GBRf driver from Edinburgh to Helensburgh (possibly Millerhill/Polmadie?) then a Fort William driver (one of a pool who also works the Alumina tanks over the West Highland Line) from Helensburgh north. I think that these men would probably have been easier to source than hosts/train managers. The CS guards who can work the Fort William portion north of Edinburgh are based at either Edinburgh (north link) or Dalmuir.

 

[D6130]

The attendants (sleeper hosts and team leaders) are entitled to 9 hours’ rest between shifts, while 12 hours is the minimum for train managers as well as drivers.

In answer to your question, there is no way that it would be legal for the London-based hosts from last night to go all the way to Fort William (arriving 15.44) and work the 19.50 back from Fort William. I don’t know what they did about hosts after the train left Edinburgh at 10:46 - that is anyone’s guess and I am amazed that they ran it all the way (I’d have thought they’d have detrained everyone at Edinburgh, which was already at a sociable time, and put them on a bus which would have got them to Fort William for lunchtime with a fair wind). That’s if any rail replacement buses were available at short notice, of course.

I believe the Fort William portion is driven by a Central Belt-based GBRf driver from Edinburgh to Helensburgh (possibly Millerhill/Polmadie?) then a Fort William driver (one of a pool who also works the Alumina tanks over the West Highland Line) from Helensburgh north. I think that these men would probably have been easier to source than hosts/train managers. The CS guards who can work the Fort William portion north of Edinburgh are based at either Edinburgh (north link) or Dalmuir.

Thanks for the clarification....that sounds logical in theory. So what will actually happen tonight? Do the Fort William GBRf drivers drive a van to/from Helensburgh Upper to work the sleeper? When I was there in August, there was a white van parked outside the station in the early afternoon - about an hour before the arrival of the Northbound alumina train, but there was nobody in it, or nearby.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the hosts safety critical, or could they have been taken off the train at Edinburgh and put up in a hotel, then picked up at Glasgow on the way back? Presumably sleeper passengers would have had to occupy the lounge and seated car until they boarded, but that would hardly be full on a midweek winter's evening.